36V 500W vs. 50cc Gas!

[set]

So my friend and I are having some friendly competition. I'm building my ebike with the 36V/500W rear motor from golden motors and he has a 50cc gas engine hooked up to his bike. I haven't ordered a battery yet but I'm planing(most likely) on hooking a 36v/20ah liFePO4 battery with my bike. Anyone got predictions on winner? He says he can get over 20 mph on his so I'm a little worried. I would like to kick his gas guzzling butt though, that and considering he spent only about 200 bucks on his kit. I'm slightly above welterwegiht at 155-160 lb and he's around 145-150lb so we're pretty even there.

 

[pwbset]

Photos. Videos. Let's see it! Game on!

If I remember right the Golden Motors are pretty fast.. wouldn't be surprised if you see 20mph.

 

[Link]

WTF I know I commented on this...

IIRC, the stock controller's limit is 40A, so you get some decent acceleration. There seems to be more than one different winding of Golden, so it's hard to say how fast you'll be going. It should be just over 20mph on 36V, though.

If you can, get a 48V pack. I'm getting nearly 30mph out of mine. 8)

 

[set]

I'm sooo tempted to go 48V but I'm not to good with soldering. I remember you gave me a link where you soldered 3 zener diodes inline to allow 48V from the stock controller. What were the specs on the zeners? If I can go 30 plus MPH than I definitely be a contender. I'll definitely post a video when I get it going, but will be a while from now. Same guy has my digi-cam grrr... Sooo.. If it will be close with a 36V/20ah batter, I might break down and go for the gold and get a 48V/20 battery. I know it's expensive but I get pretty fierce when it comes to competition.

 

[Link]

The idea is to lower the voltage going to the regulator by 12V, so either 1 big 12V zener or some smaller ones that add up to 12V. It's easier to find small zeners, though.

 

[Johnbear]

Those gas kits are stinky and unreliable. He may have you beat on the steep hills because they haul pretty good. I went for a ride with a couple of them, but I was running less power than you and I was pedalling hard. I kept up most of the time. This was a 406 crystalyte with a 36v 20 amp controller.

 

[dogman dan]

About a month ago I heard this godawfull noise behind me on the bike path. When I got to the stoplight, he caught up with me on his stinking gasser, that sounded like a pan of metal parts was being dragged around, I guess that was the centrifugal clutch or something. He ran the red light and got about a half mile ahead of me while I, like the german I am descended from waited dutifully at the light. When the light changed I ran him down like a dog and passed him, MUCH to his suprise! I doubt he knew I was motorized. My bike goes 25, but I can peadle it up to thirty, blowing his 20 mph steed away. He'da killed me on a hill though. When I rode one, it could go thirty, but it got real uncomfortable above 20 because of the vibration. I haven't seen him since though, I wonder if he couldn't take the vibration at 20 mph.
My brother in law bought one and still hasn't got it to run. Something was broken on the carburator he said. Good chineese QC on the gassers too.

 

[Zoot Katz]

Granted, I'm running 48V on a 5304 with a 48A controller and long wheelbase so this might not be relevant.

The exact location escapes me but it was uphill. A small stinky scooter type entered traffic from a cross street after treating the stop sign like a yield. She only saw a bicycle so continued on through with her left turn. Suddenly I was beside her because I didn't want to breathe the 2 stroke stench. She gave me the look, twisted the throttle and took off. I caught up and I paced her. I was cranking on the big ring and the 5304 was humming its sweet spot. She was a large woman and her engine was really straining. Shortly, she shook her head and backed down.

I don't think she saw anything but some whacked old fart on a longtail who maybe had legs like a Kangaroo and lungs like a whale.
Later I thought about it and wondered whether I'd jeopardised my drivers license by criminally engaging in street racing. Her scooter had a plate meaning it was larger than 49cc so she definitely had a drivers license to lose.

Another satisfying incident before I got buzzed happened at a bike rack while I was unlocking my utility/commuter bicycle. Some large guy pulled up on a stock electric scooter type thing. "You wanna race?" were the first words out of his mouth. I sized up him and the scooter and said, "Sure! To Coquitlam and back for a hundred dollars." That would have been 60 kilometers and I knew it was beyond his range. He paused, blinked a few times and declined.

Buddy can refill his energy source quicker than you so keep the race distance within your battery's range.

 

[dnmun]

the gas scooter needs to agree to be handicapped to equalize the competition by normalizing the race on the basis of the cost of the fuel. use the current electric rate, adjust for 70% efficiency in charging you battery, then determine how far an equal costing amount of gasoline will take the 50cc scooter. top speed is irrelevant except in the male pissing contest and the only true test is distance traveled for the same cost. this should include human power assist also so the most efficient pedaling and the most efficient energy source should win, both favor the electric assist.

 

[vanilla ice]

Geesh a little too many stipulations there dnmum. How about this.. Just run him for fun, if you win great, if you lose no big deal.

 

[64ragtop]

the gas scooter needs to agree to be handicapped to equalize the competition by normalizing the race on the basis of the cost of the fuel. use the current electric rate, adjust for 70% efficiency in charging you battery, then determine how far an equal costing amount of gasoline will take the 50cc scooter. top speed is irrelevant except in the male pissing contest and the only true test is distance traveled for the same cost. this should include human power assist also so the most efficient pedaling and the most efficient energy source should win, both favor the electric assist.

I'd have been disappointed if someone hadn't figured out how to complicate a simple a** whoopin'

Get the 48 volt pack and blow his stinkin' noisy butt into the weeds :lol:

ATB

BC

 

[set]

Omg these replies are awesome. Asked him today for my camera so I'll post pics of my setup. Warning, it's still a work in progress. We have to hold it off anyways since his license is suspended and with that thing, you need a driver's license but no need to register it. I've made my mind. I'm going for a 48V/20ah liFePO4. I know it wicked expensive so next week's check should cover it. Also I'm going to "mod" the stock controller with a 200 ohm resister like you said, Link. In the meantime, I'll have to practice soldering. He wants to go electric too but he's too weak(hes a vegetarian ).

@ dnmun: haha that gave me a good laugh. Me and him both know's in terms of that race(efficiency), I'll win.

@vanilla ice and 64 ragtop: Yeah, that's the idea I was going for. ha.

@zoot catz: I used to street race with my 300zx and it looks like speed punks follow you wherever you go, even bikes.

@dogman: what is your specs? motor/batt

 

[dazzassj6]

hahaha

these replies are very interesting lol

before i overvolted to 60v, i was trying to race a 125cc mini dirt bike with my friend. I said i could beat him in the first 30metres of acceleration. HAHA! i lost definately, it was only a 36v 250w at that time.

I dunno about now since its 60v @ 250w. Got to have that race again

 

[fechter]

My 48v Vego scooter easily trounces a hopped up 65cc GoPed. Gassers are generally slow off the line but do well at top speed. Pick a short course for the race.

If you want to run 48v, you can cheat and run the switch wire to the 36v tap on the battery and put the main power wire to the full 48v. No zeners needed.

 

[dogman dan]

My bike is the brushed WE hub on a Ping 36v 20 ah battery. Stock 35 amp controller. Shitty range but it does scoot along at 24 mph with no peadling. On flat ground I can easily peadle to 28 mph. Most of the time I pull 20 amps or so at full speed, so 20 amps x 44v = 880 watts. I rode a 80 cc gasser and it could do about 30, but my nuts couldn't take the vibration above about 20 mph. Watch out challenging the gas scooters though, my wifes looks exactly like all the mopeds but since it is a 150 it can do 60 mph. I see a lot of suprised car drivers on my ride when I get in traffic at stoplights. I can definitely take em in the 50 yard dash, after that I eat dust. But it's fun to see the" Damn that silver haired hippie is in shape" looks. :lol:
One of my very first rides, on the schwinn trike, I pass a lycra dude going 25 mph. Catching me later when I slowed down, the look on his face was priceless! How the heck did I pass him on his $2000 15 lb bike on a 50 lb trike ? After that time, I try not to tease folks peadling too much.

 

[Kurt]

I think it will depend on the kind of gas bike I am all for EV but there is a lot of power locked up in petroleum.If its just a small garden trimmer motor/friction drive like my friend has i have ridden his and for take off I would need 48v on my 5304 to be the same that's at 48A so just over 2kw and for top speed I would need 72v volt but I think I would be just a little faster at 72v /48A - 3.5kw.

If its just a low performance backyard job its passable to win but trying to take on any kind of production motorbike or even one of the monkey bike if its modified forget it.

Just think some of the two stroke motorbikes that are only 80cc like the RM80 are 30hp-or about 23kw.
http://www.suzukicycles.org/RM-RMX-series/index.html?RM80.shtml~isoraami

 

[set]

Hey Link,

I'm running into some trouble modding the controller. Your picture shows a blue "thing" where you've soldered the resistor inline with it:

While my picture below show that there is already a resistor that looks identical to your's but the blue "thing" is gone. Sorry for the bad quality but I was using my gf's laptop! my friend still hasn't returned my digicam.




What do you guys think? I've ordered the 36V/500W kit so I assumed this should be the controller for it. Maybe it's a new version? Maybe it's a 48V controller ? If I don't need to mod it, then even better!

Here is a preview of my bike, taken with the laptop as well.

 

[Link]

The blue thing is what I added. It's a potentiometer (variable resistor). I used it because I didn't know what resistance I'd need. It's set to 200Ω, so if you can find a normal 2W resistor around that value, that should work.

Bike looks good. The motor matches the color scheme on it better than the one on mine. :wink:

 

[set]

2W? on your youtube, you said it was of "unknown wattage (guessing 1W)" I have on hand some resistors I bought from radioshack. .5W(half a watt) at 220 Ohms. Would that work? Is that on the safe side or having higher than that safe?

Thanks for the comment on the bike. I've only had a few problems with it so far. I've noticed that the motor with wheel does not align centrally. It's a bit to the left if looking from behind. Did you have this problem too? It's off by an inch or so, making the left brake pad touching the rim way before the right. Did you have to pry the fork open a bit to add spacers/washers?

 

[Link]

Yeah, I think the pot is 1W, but I'd use a 2W to be safe.

The motor or just the wheel? Sounds like it's just dished badly. I have the same problem, only I was the one who forgot to dish it when I built the wheel. XD

Take it to a bike shop and have them fix it up for you if it's that.

 

[set]

I was thinking. Instead of adding an extra resister inline to the current one, why not replace the thing with a new one? I looked at the color codes and I got brown, green, brown, gold. Which get me 150 ohms. So if we add the 200 ohm resistor inline, it will make 350 ohms? If this is the case, wouldn't it be cleaner to replace the current resister with a 2W 350 ohm resistor or a 2W 402 ohm resistor?

 

[Link]

That'd work, too. I only set it up this way because I was debating on running 60V. The zener method drops 12V regardless of current, so that resistor is still needed with that method. You'd be fine with a single higher-resistance element.

 

[Hyena]

Have you taken it for a run yet Set ?
I have the same 36v GM kit but in the front wheel variety and it does 32-36km/hr along the flat (measured by GPS).
I'm going to do the resistor mod too but havent got a battery over 36v yet so havent got around to it.

If your mate can only get up to 20mph you might just edge in front but with 48v you'll definitely pull ahead. Mind you it depends on the distance you're racing over. He'll probably accelerate quicker initially so I suggest the stardard 1/4 mile to make sure you have time to pull ahead :lol:

 

[set]

@hyena,

No I haven't got my baby running yet. Yesterday was payday and I'm going to see if I got enough cash for 48v after I deposit. My friend told me he's seen videos on youtube of his engine/kit going 30 mph sooo It'll be a good race. Whether or not it was modified, I don't know. Right now, he's on a 2 cycle wash where he has to go easy on the engine for 2 whole tanks of gas to break it in so he doesn't know the full power yet. I'd rather do it right the first time you know. I got torque arms coming, and I'm going to re-wire some of the connections with anderson power poles. Thes pole connectors look awesome and my gf mentioned that they look like legos lol! It's kinda true.

 

[JinbaIttai]

So will this contest be with no pedaling permitted? Except maybe from a stop.