48V 25AH LifePo4 Ebike battery with Charger from Lev-Enterpr

[stuart.masters]

Hi everyone.

I saw this battery on ebay and I am wondering if anyone has had any experience with it? They ship from OZ and I am here too so it could be slightly better service than from China if nothing else. Sun-Thing28 seems to be a bit less reliable lately, though it seems YMMV. Maybe a bit sturdier that the gaffer tape variety? No mention of what's inside though...I guess I could ask them.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/48V-25AH-LifePo4-Ebike-battery-with-Charger-/281560377408?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item418e4e6840

Look forward to hearing from someone.

 

[ambroseliao]

First thought.

The Ah rating seems much higher than is normal for the case size. Most of the batteries I've seen in this case are in the 36V 10-12Ah or 48V 10Ah range.

 

[dnmun]

there is nothing wrong with the sun-thing batteries but i saw right away that this is all fake. no way that is 25Ah in that case.

the seller even admitted he did not know if the battery could produce 1000W through the BMS.

that to me is a dead giveaway of an incompetent seller who knows nothing about the product they are reselling.

i do not recommend purchase of the 25Ah packs from sun-thing guy or hunk-801 because they are so big that it is hard to split the pack into sections so it can be mounted on the bike in two pieces and there have been several people with issues of the sense wires becoming disconnected it appears.

 

[dogman dan]

Hate to slam anybody, but I don't see that being a picture of the actual item. Only about 48v 10 ah of lifepo4 will fit in the box shown.

So maybe when it comes, it's not in the metal box? Or you get two of them? Perhaps you just get a bigger box when you order the 25 ah. 48v 25 ah of lifepo4 is mighty bulky. He lists the dimensions, but there is simply no way 48v 25 ah of lifepo4 fits in that size.

So something is not correct in that ad. 48v 10 ah? 24v 25 ah? NO WAY 48v 25 ah lifepo4 fits in a box that size. That we know for sure. Dimensions hint that it's round cells.


Hope it all goes well, and you guys in AU have a good local source in the future.

 

[chvidgov.bc.ca]

Also beware of the keyswitch/relay that is turning the pack on and off. The 48V relay in mine was only speced as a 14V coil, on a 48V system. And the large amperage of these bigger packs, if the controller is big, can weld the relay contacts so the keyswitch won't turn the packs off. I removed the relay, deactivating the switch, and I'm using a breaker on the main power leads, outside the pack.

 

[stuart.masters]

Thanks for all the input...I guess the old adage - if something seems too good to be true...Actually it's not that good, but I would like to encourage people to bring this sort of thing onshore.
There is one question and answer which indicates they get them made to spec.
Does the weight seem about right for a 25Ah pack? I think its about the same as a Sunthing one of similar size, but their weights are all over the place. I'm not sure they update their listings very consistently when the get an upgrade.
chvidgov - did you get this exact pack?
They specify the 48V 25Ah as 150 X 80 X 430mm, 7.5kg (Sunthing's say 8.8kg)
They have exactly the same photo for a 36V 25Ah 150 X 80 X 360mm,6.5kg
and a 36V 12Ah in a tube case 150 X 80 X 360mm, 3.6kg
Compared with SunThings 25Ah 48V, it is about 20% smaller which seems fairly unlikely if it is using cylindrical cells no?
It seems like its a real bricks and mortar store which sells mostly RC stuff.

 

[chvidgov.bc.ca]

Not that exact pack. I imagine that most packs with that type of case are susceptible to the same issue with the relay inside which does the switching off the keyswitch. You may need to formulate your own precharge solution, or put a resistor across the contacts of the relay. I removed it completely.

 

[dnmun]

batteries do not have relays inside them. the sunthing pack uses a switch in the circuit current to turn off the output mosfets. using relays is so ancient old tech when mosfets are present anyway. doesn't even make sense to use a relay on a battery and have the relay drain charge from the pack. no sense at all.

 

[dnmun]

but nobody else who really builds batteries uses a relay. conhis is just a reseller and don't know batteries. it is just stupid to use a relay when you can switch a mosfet. just stupid.

 

[dogman dan]

I'd say weight is wrong for 48v 25 ah too. More like the right weight for a 48v 15 ah with pouch cells.

So now I suspect the entire specs area of that ad is not accurate for the 25 ah.

I'm not saying you won't get 25 ah. Just saying it won't be that size or weight.

Or, the typo is 25ah, when it should be 15ah.

 

[stuart.masters]

I've asked them how come their batteries are so small and light compared to everyone else's at that capacity (and at the same time trying to be as polite as possible!) so we'll see what they come back with.

 

[dnmun]

they do not know what you are talking about. the seller could not even answer the question posed to him on ebay so he knows nothing.

 

[dogman dan]

Maybe he'll at least notice the mistake in the ad. stuff happens.

 

[TotalConfusion]

Its 1am here atm but how about i give him a call in the morning and ask a few Questions, Ill offer to come down and look at it in person and see what he says. Not that i would really want to travel 80km to them but it cant hurt.

 

[stuart.masters]

More technical detail was forthcoming. There was an intermediate communication but it was not very high quality and I seem to have forgotten to press "Post". Oh well...moving on.

These are LiFePO4 cells. Our supplier actually manufactures quality cells and assembles these packs in house; they are not just an assembly company as most pack suppliers seem to be! We cannot divulge the brand of cell due to confidentiality reasons, however, our 48v packs use 128cells. The theoretical capacity of the pack is 26.4 AH. As you may probably be aware, quality of battery cells can be different depending on the purity of materials used etc.

Our supplier is a quality manufacturer who uses the best materials ( and electronics) available in order to achieve the best results. Quality of interconnecting straps ensures that losses are kept to a minimum. In fact we have had absolutely no issues with these batteries in the time that we have had them custom manufactured for us. We are so confident of these batteries that we have given them a 2 yr. warranty.
With respect to your concerns over return if not within specifications: of course if the pack does not do what is advertised we will make amends, so long as the battery is original condition.

As an engineer, I would have to mention that I would be keen to see your testing setup, calibration methods etc….

So they are sticking to the Ah but I haven't got any clarification on the dimensions.

 

[dogman dan]

Big box ok, 15 ah when you thought you would get 25 ah not ok.

Personally, I would not want to carry 48v 25 ah of lifepo4 in one box. Split pack to put each half in a pannier.

 

[dnmun]

sounds like 8 cans/cell. how big is the new 24650 Vpower pack can in Ah?

 

[stuart.masters]

128 x24650 could fit in that space. Would they be 7.5kg though?

 

[stuart.masters]

So I got this battery a couple of weeks ago. Seems to be "well built" but here's the thing - they sent a 54.6v charger with it, so I'm thinking suspisious but i'll give them the benefit of the doubt; ring the guy up and eventually he says oops sent the wrong charger sorry send it back and we'll give you the right one. So I do. Meanwhile I use another 58.4V charger on it but the pack consistently cuts off charging at 54V so the first charger seems correct actually...and not the right voltage for a 16S LIFEPO4 so suspicious again. He said there were 128 cells in there so a 13s LIPO would not divide into that.
Then I start using it and it's OK for the first few k's but sags down to about 46.5V (no load) and 43-44 at 10A after maybe 12Ah which doesn't give my setup much torque even at max throttle, but it is more overall than my 7Ah LIFEPO4 gave me so I'm not sure how happy I am. If it stays like this for its lifetime then I could probably live with it but I guess it will eventually get worse.
Does this sound like a LIPO or similar, or is there some reason a LIFEPO4 would behave like this, which seem saggier than my exisiting one?

 

[dnmun]

it may be a 13S limno2 pack. what makes you think it is 16S lifepo4?

 

[tomjasz]

Jeebus the guy lists his phone number, why not ask him?

 

[stuart.masters]

What makes me think it should be a lifepo4 is that's what the ad says. In phone conversations I have mentioned that for a 16s lifepo4 the charger should be so and so and so he is sending me a new one. He said there are 128 cells. 13 into 128 don't go. I will call him again once I am more certain so any help appreciated

 

[dmwahl]

We cannot divulge the brand of cell due to confidentiality reasons

Sounds fishy to me too, no company would care if their name was shared unless they were selling junk to get rid of it, and then you wouldn't want it anyway.

 

[stuart.masters]

Well apparently the battery is a 13S LiNiMnCoO2 or NMC. Not what I ordered and certainly explains a lot.
It's also 21 Ah not 25.
So on the plus side it's quite a bit lighter and smaller than a 21Ah LiFePO4, however as mentioned, saggy and barely gets me to 30 km/h (without pedaling, though I usually do for about 6 km/h extra) once about 1/2 way through the charge. In addition, it goes through a lot more Ah as the voltage is lower and so the motor draws a lot more current to give any sort of torque (or something).
He says he was taken by surprise by the (Chinese) supplier and will send a LiFePO4 to me whenever they come in, probably 2 1/2 months time. In the meantime they have added 21 Ah NCM batteries to their ebay shop! I don't see any reason to disbelieve them at this point. They've contacted me without prompting and even phoned with the replacement offer last week. I've said yes, so I will have to limp along for another 10 weeks till then (why isn't there a "smiley" for this?)
It'll be interesting to see how big and heavy the 25Ah 16S LiFePO4 ends up being because the new listing still seems too good to be true. Hopefully it is just big and heavy and actually a LiFePO4.

 

[999zip999]

Most people said it's to good to be true. As go find a different battery. Then you went ahead and tried your luck ? Why ask for advice ?