5305 @ 215 degree C (420 F)

[Almasi]

Nice!

Lipo will make that thing a monster. . .
You will need airbags.

I had no considered the noise factor.
Oh well, this is not my stealth bike.
I was hoping to be able to sneak around in the woods....

What generates most of the noise? The motor or the drive train?

If its the motor, I wonder if the Brushless will be quieter or louder.

-methods

This electric scooter ended up in parts...I twisted the frame and axle badly at 70KM/H in a side walk

10% noise is the motor brush and 90% the chain drive at that 3600RPM

Robin

 

[voicecoils]

I like that idea
...
Can I just drive the largest freewheel?
...
How do I deal with the fact that the entire rear assembly moves up and down 7"
Wont that make the chain slack-tight-slack-tight?
Do I just use the derailer to apply tension?
Disable the pedals?

I think you'd be better off not running it through the gears, but that's just me.

The 9 speed bicycle chain will struggle with that much power I think.

If you want the motor in the main triangle, you'll need a chain tensioning device that takes up chain slack when the suspension is not fully bottomed out.

You can see motorcycles etc will mount final drive stage as close to the pivot point as possible. Quantya, the electric dirt bike maker, has the drive on ON the pivot point:

If you plan to ditch the pedals, you may as well just step up to a dirt bike frame and go from there...

 

[voicecoils]

P.s. Have you seen the latest version of the Stealth Bomber? They're sticking with the X5s, I reckon it looks awesome!

http://www.stealthelectricbikes.com.au/stealth_bomber.html

 

[TylerDurden]

Here is ES member bikeraider's setup:

http://www.evalbum.com/1709

 

[Doctorbass]

Here is ES member bikeraider's setup:

http://www.evalbum.com/1709

I had the chance to try it when i meet him last summer.

really nice setup!.. and powerfull!.. but with all the 600 konions he have now.. it's a beast!!

Doc

 

[Drunkskunk]

methods, what brand Lipo were you using?

As for the Kona and Etec, I don't think the frame will survive. that rear swing arm Top A and the pivots are held on by some rather tiny screws. they are 6, maybe 8mm thick IIRC.

 

[Knuckles]

Where are the "toasted" stator pics?

 

[methods]

Thanks for the info guys.

The exact lipo I was running when it cooked was:

24S 4150mah Zippy R 25C in parallel with
24S 4900mah Zippy R 25C

So about an 88.8V 9Ah Zippy R pack
All tied together at the balance taps.

I will go get those pictures for you now.
Motor does not look any different than it did before.

-methods

 

[methods]

Now lets be crystal clear about this:
My windings have always been darker than most and truth be told, they dont look much different now then they did last week.

I got the hub from Electric Rider.

Please forgive as these are Cell phone pictures.
Damn good cell phone pictures, but cell phone pictures none the less.




It got hot enough to melt the solder off the connections. Found 5 or 6 of these inside.


Not sure exactly what you guys are looking for.
View attachment 1

Let me know if you want to see a different angle or close up.
I cooked down the resolution and the size on these.


-methods

 

[voicecoils]

As for the Kona and Etec, I don't think the frame will survive. that rear swing arm Top A and the pivots are held on by some rather tiny screws. they are 6, maybe 8mm thick IIRC.

@ Methods:

The Kona with a Mars WON'T WORK
Your frame WILL BREAK

It's impossible.

(now you'll have to do it, to prove us wrong :wink: )

 

[Doctorbass]

Thanks Methods for these great pics..

Have you measured the resistance phase to phase to phase? if not could you please? I just wanna see the diff between a cooked and a normal motor..

Cause i measured mine so we could compare! :wink: I used the typical current measurement by passing 10A thru every 2 phase wire and then measured the corresponding voltage across the winding end (where the melted ball come from..)

Electricals caracteristics of the X5305 hub motor HEREPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:00 am
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4404&hilit=hub+motor

The resistance between two phase wires: (tested at 10A DC with V measured directly on the winding wires connections (4 wires sensing measurement for better accuracy)

- measured voltage is 1.41V so R= 1.42V/10.0A= 0,142 ohms

so the max current that motor should draw between two phases is: 7.04A/Volt in DC operation.

 

[Knuckles]

AWESOME!

That Stator is CRISPY DUDE! So Cool! (Not!)

YET! You have HERO Status! Awesome BURN Bro!

 

[methods]

Ok doc, give me a week or so for those measurements
The only multimeter I have here is so far off that I have to use a "look up sheet" to use it.

I took the meter to work and calibrated it
Since I could not actually change its settings, I have a sheet of paper that tells me what it reads and what that means at given steps
Each "range" is off by a different amount.
** never buy a Radioshack meter **

I am on the lookout for a good Fluke.
A guy I was renting a room to stole my last one

-methods

 

[methods]

That Stator is CRISPY DUDE! So Cool! (Not!)

Just lately I started following all those crazy controllers you guys are always talking about.
Seeing the apparent build quality I find myself wondering why ebikes.ca is still selling xlyte.
I ordered one to play with and if I like it I just might do a 2WD setup just to hold me off.
I did some simulations and it looks like a pair of Nine Continent at 44.4V and 35-40A would be comparable to the single X5

I am going to try to get the teeny tiny 36V 350W 6 fet unit beefed up enough that I can run a pair of them, each pushing 35A 44.4V
Funny truth is that the total package will be smaller than my kelly and I will probably have less wires!

I really wanted to try a geared motor too...

I would rather spend $250 twice than spend $500 once if you know what I mean. . .
Buying two smaller motors will have more use for later projects than buying another X5.

we will see...

I will probably just buy something to hold me off while I investigate the high power options.

-methods

 

[Doctorbass]

Let me just one more time compare our 5305

I know your motor had this color just before that happened.. .. but i still think it already received some "test" .. just examinating the dark carbon color

and Knuckles ... THIS IS THE WAY I BURN MY TOAST!!.. no worry my toaster isn't on the 220V :lol:

Doc

 

[methods]

My motor?
Abuse?

What kind of accusation are you trying to make!?!?



You better be quiet or they may not honor my warranty

-methods

 

[Doctorbass]

My motor?
Abuse?

What kind of accusation are you trying to make!?!?



You better be quiet or they may not honor my warranty

-methods

Edited to "Test" :wink:

sorry dude!

 

[Knuckles]

Now we know the TRUE meaning of a motors WATT rating.

IT'S ALL ABOUT HEAT!

An electric motor IS an electric motor.

Keep it COOL! It will LOVE you forever!

 

[Doctorbass]

So Methods said:

I had the current limit set to 110A (motor current) and battery voltage was around 88V

now we now know the true electrical limit of an X5.. A premiere in the Endless Sphere forum?!

and... we could conclude that :

An x5 that is used without thermal monitoring at 9680 Watts have many chance to cook!

Methods, can you elaborate more about the conditions it was used last time?

-last run time?..
-around how many % of time full throttle was applied?
-Watthour spend?

I think it's important here "for the science" to establish the MAX Electrical limit of this motor! and the conditions it had

Doc

 

[Drunkskunk]

WELCOME TO KFC

ORIGINAL...... OR EXTRA CRISPY ?

Doc

 

[methods]

Methods, can you elaborate more about the conditions it was used last time?

-last run time?..
-around how many % of time full throttle was applied?
-Watthour spend?

Doc

The last run really was pure abuse
I ran 6Ah through the motor, charged back up in about 30 minutes, then ran another 7Ah
I was running the 88.8V lipo pack

I was going very slow around my block
Never more than 24mph on my 24" rim.
I was sitting all the way back on the rack, dragging my feet on the ground.
I was wrapping the throttle all the way to WOT to bring the front end up then modulating the throttle to maintain a wheelie

I was also starting at one end of the street and yanking the throttle on and off to bounce the font end.
I was trying to get comfortable with the feeling of the bike popping up on me.

You see. . . This never would have happened with any sort of regular hard riding
The motor efficiency is terrible in the region where I was using it.
Every time I turned the throttle the motor would take >100A, most of which went to heat.

This was a true case of harsh abuse.

Even in stop and go riding you never spend this much time cranking on the throttle.


Now... Lets not forget that I blew the motor up last week by hooking up 126V lipo to it with a 110A current limit.
That time I melted the hall sensor wires together.

A few months back I got the motor so hot riding off road that I melted one leg off of a hall sensor.

In hind sight:

Watt Limit should be 10KW, no more!
If someone wants to run 10KW they should hook up the temperature protection. . . Not just hook it up and not read it like me
At 10KW one should be careful not to lug the bike too much. Get it going and keep it going. Keep it in the efficiency range.

It is worth noting that I never killed a hall sensor
It is also worth noting that for the last 3 months I have been riding with a 220A current limit and it never blew up.
It really was the hard riding that did it, not the power per-say

Big power is ok when the efficiency is high
Big power is big trouble when loaded down

But we already knew that from RC and Race Cars right?
Oh well, I needed a change anyway.

I am looking hard at these 1000W 48V Golden Motors
I know nothing about them but I bet 2 of them will make my bike accelerate quick!

There is no information on the site:
http://www.goldenmotor.com/

I started a thread to ask for help understanding these motors:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8711


-methods

 

[steveo]

I personally don't ever think id hit this kind of temp ever ... methods was " killing it"

at 150 degress you will notice power loss.. motor will be quite warm .. and i hope at this point you will let off the throttle.


methods .. Can i have your spare motor side covers??? ... i don't know if they would fit my motor.... hmm i have the old gen x-lit motor ..

-steveo

 

[methods]

I personally don't ever think id hit this kind of temp ever ... methods was " killing it"

Famous last words. . .

Anyhow, I have plans for the motor case.

-methods

 

[methods]

Let me just one more time compare our 5305

Doc

Oh crap, you were right.
Look at my motor a few months ago! I found this in the Project Mayhem thread.
That picture was still after abusing the X5 for a long time. Maybe mine looked like yours in the beginning.



-methods

 

[Doctorbass]

... I remember you said it SEEMS to had already this dark color on the winding.. !!.. but now i agree you confirm that it it was at normal color in the past.. and that it cooked!!!!

Doc