60/120 degree continued

[rkosiorek]

almost all hall sensors available today work from 5 to 24V range and an open collector output. with the open collector output they should adjust to whatever the needs of the controller are.

also these types of sensor are either on or off. just like a switch. they are not proportional like the throttles.

rick

 

[SniperGaulois]

thanks a lot for this definitive guide, it brings everything to light.

 

[solarbbq2003]

I found some test meters for motors and controllers recently using leds,
here is a copy of how to tell if 60 or 120degree motor from hall sensor firings
attached

 

[fechter]

Yes that all seems to make more sense now. Here's a table from the datasheet for the MC33033 motor controller, which is switchable between 60 and 120 degrees.

 

[nitecheck]

This all making my head hurt :?
I've got a Nine (9) Continent 250W 36volt motor (that has been happly running at 48v) it's bright polished alloy hub with laser etcing & red embossed logo - but want do th nice thing for the motor an get a 48v controller 350w - which should allow for a 6AH 11.1 volt battery to be connected to a "turbo" switch. like Marks.

From "experience" I would say these motors run between 250w-350w @36v depending on the controller & a 48v controller will simply run "cooler & bullet proof" with a 48v pack. So sourced a nice looking unit from china - under $50.00 Aus delivered & he asked a question - eceived a question - happy to sell but do you want a 60 deg or 120 deg controller? I have no spec's on the motor & really do not have a clue which it is. Can anyone help?

 

[fechter]

All the bike motors I've seen are 120 deg.
If you want to hook LEDs up to all 3 hall signal wires (or carefully measure with a meter while the wheel is not moving) and check whether there are any positions where all 3 are on or off, you can test your motor to be sure.

 

[solarbbq2003]

ok at long last I think I have my head around the 60/120degree issue.
1= hall sensor on ( can use led to indicate if its on or measure voltage of hall sensor output)
0= hall sensor off ( will give low voltage reading or led is off if using leds)
turn the motor by very very small amounts to turn the hall sensors on/off as magnets go past them:
if its 60degree motor the on/off values will look like this sequence:
000,001,011,111,110,100...........then repeats
if its a 120degree motor sequence will look like this:
101,001,011,010,110,100 ..........then repeats
depending where the magnets are sitting when you start you might start anywhere in the sequence
note that 120 degree motor at no time are three hall sensors off at one time ( 000 ) or at no time are three hall sensors all on at one time ( 111 )
so a really simple way to tell the difference would be, if you get three hall sensors all on or all off at the same time then you have a 60degree motor. If you dont see three all on or all off at same time you have a 120degree.

 

[rkosiorek]

Exactly. isn't that what i said? if it isn't it is what i meant to say.

rick

 

[solarbbq2003]

yup looks like problemo solved
a small step for man..............

 

[Stilo]

Hi everyone !
I have a question. What is the difference between 60 ° and 120 ° motors and motor controllers? Which one is better? How are they different?
I am not thinking here of placing the hall sensors, but only the motor (winding) and the controller.

 

[fechter]

I don't think there is any difference in performance. The controller just has to be set up for the same hall spacing as the motor. One may allow a more convenient hall sensor placement depending on the pole count, etc.

 

[amberwolf]

I am not thinking here of placing the hall sensors, but only the motor (winding) and the controller.

If you mean a sensorless motor, no hall sensors at all, then I don't think there *is* any 60/120 degree spacing at all, as that applies to the sensors elecrical spacing.

But you have to use a sensorless controller with a sensorless motor.

 

[Stilo]

Thank you for your answers. I have another question about this:there is a 60 degree or 120 degree motor (no hall sensors)when looking at the motor structure,?(slots,winding,pole...etc)

 

[fechter]

Thank you for your answers. I have another question about this:there is a 60 degree or 120 degree motor (no hall sensors)when looking at the motor structure,?(slots,winding,pole...etc)

There are dozens of rotor/stator pole combinations that can work. 60 vs. 120 degree applies to the location of the hall sensors with respect to the magnets and the timing of the signals. For a sensorless controller this would not apply.

There are some good tutorials on motor layout on the web.

https://things-in-motion.blogspot.com/2019/01/selecting-best-pole-and-slot.html
http://www.bavaria-direct.co.za/scheme/common/
There's another one I can't seem to find, but it's posted around here somewhere.

 

[Stilo]

Thank you! :thumb:

 

[MVS]

Would this converter work to use a 120 deg motor controller with a 60 deg bldc motor?

https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/32796266176.html?spm=a2g03.12057483.0.0.8d346b400PHFVl#feedback

According to the images the circuit apparently only changes de green Hall signal, the other Hall wires just pass through.

 

[fechter]

Would this converter work to use a 120 deg motor controller with a 60 deg bldc motor?

https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/32796266176.html?spm=a2g03.12057483.0.0.8d346b400PHFVl#feedback

According to the images the circuit apparently only changes de green Hall signal, the other Hall wires just pass through.

Seems like it was made to do just that. I don't see why it wouldn't work. Many controllers have a jumper or program setting to switch from 120 deg to 60 deg, so you wouldn't need it on one of these. 60 deg. motors are very rare. Every motor I've used was 120 deg.

 

[MVS]

Would this converter work to use a 120 deg motor controller with a 60 deg bldc motor?

https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/32796266176.html?spm=a2g03.12057483.0.0.8d346b400PHFVl#feedback

According to the images the circuit apparently only changes de green Hall signal, the other Hall wires just pass through.

Seems like it was made to do just that. I don't see why it wouldn't work. Many controllers have a jumper or program setting to switch from 120 deg to 60 deg, so you wouldn't need it on one of these. 60 deg. motors are very rare. Every motor I've used was 120 deg.

So this is just a green Hall signal invert circuit?

 

[fechter]

So this is just a green Hall signal invert circuit?

Yes.
Here's somebody else's explanation:
https://community.parker.com/techno...wledge-base/174/hall-sensors-60-vs-120degrees