700c tires .. what should I look for?

[LI-ghtcycle]

Hello, again I am asking for those who have the experience I lack to keep me from making a mistake on 700c tires.

I used to be frustrated with the fact that most of the tires that interested me on Schwalbe's site were 700c! Now I'm riding a 700c, and I want to know what is a good tire for the following conditions:

1) Rain

2) Minor sand/gravel typically found in the median or shoulder of a road

3) Road as opposed to gravel/grass/dirt meaning most of the time I will be on good pavement, and want low rolling resistance

4) Puncture resistance and high mileage per tire. I'm guessing a form or other of Schwalbe Marathon will be best.


I'm not set on Schwalbe however, they justs seem to have the most comprehensive listings of tires around, if there is an inexpensive readily available tire that will get the job done, and not cost more by buying many many more tires, then I am just as interested in that.

Soon I plan to bike from Oregon to Montana to see how I do on a truly long trip. I hope to do this soon, and would love to have my new Kepler drive system, but I might just do it on a pedal bike if not, I don't wana miss hunting season.

Any and all suggestions greatly appreciated!

8)

 

[veloman]

What's the largest width tire that your frame/brake calipers will allow?

If you can fit 32s, that'd be my choice. If not, then hopefully you can get 28s on there. Otherwise, 23 and 25 (road racing/riding - for normal cycling) will ride really harsh over bumps with that extra weight. My e-road-bike weighs 42lbs and road pavement SUCKS. (I'm running 700x23 tires). Plus, you definitely don't want to be riding really narrow road tires on a heavy bike on dirt.

Unsuspended weight (motor, batteries) on a road bike is a lot harsher on the bike than suspended weight (such as YOU).


Also look for some form of flat protection like kevlar belts or whatever they have these days

 

[drewjet]

I have the Marathons on mine and am very happy with them. I have about 200 miles so far, so not a long term user...yet.

 

[madact]

Looked into this recently for my HPV build - Schwalbe do seem to have a good range, Marathon or Durano for wear or Ultremo R.10 for lower rolling resistance (the Ultremo R had a manufacturing problem in 2009, hence the R.10). Continental Gatorskins get mixed reviews, I've seen some complaints about puncture resistance (or lack of) and wear rate. Continental GP-4000 is a serious contender for wear & performance, and Michelin Pro-race 3 gets good marks on rolling resistance but is fairly lightweight.

Marathon of course has the 'Plus' variant for more durability or the 'Racer' variant for more speed (Marathon Racer seems to be in the ballpark of the GP-4000 and pro-race), and the Marathon line seems to be held in good regard for performance (smaller wheel-size Marathons have been used on several record breaking HPVs, overzealous / 'lil overzealous come to mind) and durability has been reported as good on some cycling websites.

For my purposes, the Schwalbe Marathon racer and Ultremo R.10s came out on top for racing Marathon Plus for touring - bear in mind the Ultremos also have the anti-puncture strip...

Bear in mind the above is a 'literature review' - I run cheap michelin erilliums (700x23C) on my getting-around bike, which only sees light use (probably 40km a week), and they work fine for me but I'm always worried about pinch flats when I hop a curb on such thin tyres, and they feel scary flat when they drop below 70psi or so. I also have some Conti "town & country"s for my MTB, which are an awesome hard-wearing 26" semi-slick, so I've had good experiences with Michelin and Conti.

Go for wider tyres if you can - the main rationale for 23mm 'racing' tyres is air resistance, there's no appreciable difference in rolling resistance on a flat surface, and a traction disadvantage on rougher surfaces (the higher pressure required for a narrow tyre increases the amount of 'jitter' you get cornering on loose tarmac, for example, and higher pressure can actually increase rolling resistance on such surfaces); air resistance is only factor on the front and less of a concern for ebikes.

 

[Tiberius]

+1 on the width

The reason roadies go for very narrow tyres is aero and weight, not rolling resistance. There is a good document on the Schwalbe website that gives technical data on their tyres. I've used the 2.0" wide Marathon Supremes and had no problems.

Incidentally, I sometimes end up in rolling races. If I'm riding with someone and we get to a gentle downslope I will stop pedalling and/or electric power and just roll. I usually find I can roll while they are still having to pedal. I've got a theory that 90% of the bikes out there could do with some basic maintenance and the tyres pumping up.

Nick

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Ok, good stuff thanks all!

Sounds like the idea is go as wide as the bike allows, and get something with more than just slick tread.

Anyone had similar experiences with another brand of tire?

 

[GreenKnight]

I've used the schwalbe marathon supreme 35s. Haven't done alot kilometers on them yet but am generally happy (no punctures and much better on loose sandy surfaces.
A couple of traps to watch for.
Once you've adjusted your caliper brakes the tyre wont slide so calliplers, callipers have to be backed off to get wheel off bike.

More serious, check there is sufficient space between the original tyre and bottom of head stem to accept the larger tyre.

Also when the larger tyres on do the calipers have enough adjustment to get the brake pads on to the wheel rim?

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Well, I went to the LBS today and looked at what he has, and closest thing were some nice panracers that were 26"!!

The only thing close were some 38's that had really aggresive tread, and so I changed one onto the front and saw that I couldn't even come close to fitting those! :lol: I'm going to try a set of Panracer Pancela

Tires in 700x25 (unless there is a reason I shouldn't? .. I can get them for $30 ea) ... my original tires are 700x23 and they are really tight, just a .25 inch or so clearance.

Look like a good candidate? These will be wire bead, I'm not going to try kevlar's just yet, wana make sure they are the right tire for me.

 

[madact]

Sounds like the idea is go as wide as the bike allows, and get something with more than just slick tread.

Tread is really a non-issue on a road bike - the only situations where tread will actually help (dirt, mud, sand, 'deep' gravel), you'll need more tread than you want for a road bike. Tread tends to "happen" on wider road tyres on account of the general public being worried about hydroplaning, which doesn't actually happen until you get into serious-motorcycle tyre widths at very high speeds - the best rain tyres for racers are slicks with a soft compound which doesn't go hard (and hence 'slippery') in the cold. The tread you see on any of the road tyres is generally either 'security theatre' or branding, and shouldn't be factored into any decisions...

Even if you have a thin layer of sand or gravel on the road, tread won't help unless it's deep enough to grab down - a slick with grooves is no better than a pure slick in that situation.

That said, having a grooved-slick tread *may* help rolling resistance if the tread is very thick, as less energy is used bending the rubber (same reason fast road tyres tend to be thin - apart from the weight).

The Panaracers look nice enough - 25 would be OK, but I'd go for the 28 if they fit... kevlar is great if you have to fold up a spare to carry and they save a couple of grammes of weight, but I don't think you'd detect any difference with wire beads.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Sounds like the idea is go as wide as the bike allows, and get something with more than just slick tread.

Tread is really a non-issue on a road bike - the only situations where tread will actually help (dirt, mud, sand, 'deep' gravel), you'll need more tread than you want for a road bike. Tread tends to "happen" on wider road tyres on account of the general public being worried about hydroplaning, which doesn't actually happen until you get into serious-motorcycle tyre widths at very high speeds - the best rain tyres for racers are slicks with a soft compound which doesn't go hard (and hence 'slippery') in the cold. The tread you see on any of the road tyres is generally either 'security theatre' or branding, and shouldn't be factored into any decisions...

Even if you have a thin layer of sand or gravel on the road, tread won't help unless it's deep enough to grab down - a slick with grooves is no better than a pure slick in that situation.

That said, having a grooved-slick tread *may* help rolling resistance if the tread is very thick, as less energy is used bending the rubber (same reason fast road tyres tend to be thin - apart from the weight).

The Panaracers look nice enough - 25 would be OK, but I'd go for the 28 if they fit... kevlar is great if you have to fold up a spare to carry and they save a couple of grammes of weight, but I don't think you'd detect any difference with wire beads.

At what speed does this become a factor exactly? I will be building a racer with 700c wheels, and I might be approaching 50MPH if all goes as planned.

This of course won't see regular road use unless I can confirm it's reliability and practicality and at those speeds, I will license it as a moped or motorcycle and use it as a you would any other motor vehicle for safety reasons.

 

[drewjet]

If you are going to build a 50 MPH machine and make it road legal, it is going to be heavy, it takes a lot of battery to go that fast, then add in the weight of lights turn signals horn, etc. You wont want skinny 700C tires on a heavy machine.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

If you are going to build a 50 MPH machine and make it road legal, it is going to be heavy, it takes a lot of battery to go that fast, then add in the weight of lights turn signals horn, etc. You wont want skinny 700C tires on a heavy machine.

True, if you use motorcycle/scooter type lights/horn, but I'm certain that I can keep the weight down considerably with ultra light LED and electronic horn/aerosol air horn and with the Kepler Drive, Theoretically, a 60ish volt system would approach 50 MPH, and done with Lipo, still relatively light. Lipo gives so much more punch than LiFeP04 that something that would require 20AH's of LiFep04 generally only requires 10AH's of Lipo, especially the newest generation of LiCo Nano Lipo, WAY more energy density, lighter weight and still very safe if used properly.

My main concern is when the motors start being too powerful for the friction between the out-runner and tire, however, worst case scenario, their is just too much slippage, and you throttle down.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

I got my Panracer Pancela's today! I LOVE them! Just the right size too, instead of the original size of 700x23, I got 700x25 and what a difference! Even though they are actually at a higher PSI (110 opposed to the 23's 90) they flex more and absorb shock better, yet seem to be just as fast and effortless. I know 25 isn't a huge jump from 23, but for these, it really made a difference.

 

[veloman]

Tire pressure also has a really big impact on ride quality. If I ride 80psi on my road bike (no motor), it is much smoother on chip seal and otherwise non-perfect road, without being slower. The 120psi just bounces me around on rough roads.

I just love nice pavement. At my mom's house back home, the entire 2 mile street was repaved 2 years ago, it's been soo nice.

Road tires are horrible in heavy rain BTW. Last time I got caught in a thunderstorm, with a heavy downpour, I was spinning my rear tire while accelerating away from a light at 23mph, SEATED. Sure, I was pushing it fairly hard, maybe 1000watts, but my point is road tires have no grip on roads with standing water (heavy rain). I've also broke my rear tire loose on completely dry, clean pavement on steep hill sprints. That's while standing, so not much weight on the rear wheel.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Yeah, I can imagine under power that skinny 700c can be squirrely in low traction areas, funny thing today I went with on the morning ride with dad on the Trek that I'm converting, and I swore I had a flat! :lol:

Amazing how going from a rigid to front susp bike can be so disconcerting. :wink:

I did love the speed though! And the shock smoothed everything out, but once I have the batteries and motor on, THEN I will know if I need that 1.75 in the back.