RunForTheHills
1 kW
Have you seen this tire? It is made from a metal alloy and flat proof. I don't think it is for sale yet though.
Cycling — The SMART Tire Company
Cycling — The SMART Tire Company
Ultimate puncture proof bike tires? testing Kenda K-shield and K-shield Plus
- Thread starter neptronix
- Start date
I've seen tons of tires like these and they're all unobtanium.
..and every time we get one released, we find they have too poor of ride quality.
I believe it's possible with today's material engineering to produce a good airless tire but it hasn't exactly a 'manhattan project' type effort so far, lol.
So for now, 3lbs of rubber will do, lol.
..and every time we get one released, we find they have too poor of ride quality.
I believe it's possible with today's material engineering to produce a good airless tire but it hasn't exactly a 'manhattan project' type effort so far, lol.
So for now, 3lbs of rubber will do, lol.
MoneyPit
10 W
Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tour is thicker on the tread than the Marathon Plus, with a mildly articulated tread that I need to get thru the drifting sand we have on the paths here. But against 11mm goat heads, if you get one in between the tread blocks (and of course you will) you're right back to relying on the puncture belt.
I use the Pickup and rely on the thicker casing for my smaller front 20" tire in a town where there ARE goat heads, but California Central Valley has them in the 3-5mm size. So the Pickup, then Tannus underneath but we all know thats just throwing spaghetti at the wall. Under that is a thorn 'proof' tube and inside the tube is Flatout. And a little air in the space thats left.
One thing I do that has added one more helpful layer to the onion is always oversize my tubes. That keeps the tube from being distended under the tire. The idea is just like a balloon: Just put a puff of air in and you can scrape a pin over it pretty hard without issue. Blow it up and then just graze it with a pin and boom. For say a 2.30" tire I go up to a 3.0" tube. The only trick is during install put that puff of air in to give it shape and keep it from getting under the tire bead. Then once the bead is seated check around both sides to make doubly sure its not wedged under the bead anywhere.
I use the Pickup and rely on the thicker casing for my smaller front 20" tire in a town where there ARE goat heads, but California Central Valley has them in the 3-5mm size. So the Pickup, then Tannus underneath but we all know thats just throwing spaghetti at the wall. Under that is a thorn 'proof' tube and inside the tube is Flatout. And a little air in the space thats left.
One thing I do that has added one more helpful layer to the onion is always oversize my tubes. That keeps the tube from being distended under the tire. The idea is just like a balloon: Just put a puff of air in and you can scrape a pin over it pretty hard without issue. Blow it up and then just graze it with a pin and boom. For say a 2.30" tire I go up to a 3.0" tube. The only trick is during install put that puff of air in to give it shape and keep it from getting under the tire bead. Then once the bead is seated check around both sides to make doubly sure its not wedged under the bead anywhere.
Chalo
100 TW
Um. Boy requires education, and receiving blue tires is the opposite of that in the short run. In the longer term, he'll only learn they actually suck all available balls if he is observant and open to the idea.
Chalo
100 TW
This!
Lately it seems the labeled size on tubes is two whole sizes smaller than the measurable size. My coping strategy is to use whatever size fills up the tire casing without being stretched.
I'm originally from roughly your area and can tell you the goatheads are about 2x longer here in Utah. Whatever i require, cut that in half, lol.
Marathon plus tour and marathon e-plus would be the thickest tires Schwalbe offers, schwalbe pickup coming second to those..
If you need to go +1 on protection then the Kenda Cargo tires would be the next step up.
Also, i've seen that in test the tannus armor has a pretty bad effect on rolling resistance, generally sealants seem to have lower rolling resistance, and ones like flatout can last a long time..
So i think the tannus is out for me longterm as long as flatout does what it says on the tin..
Chalo
100 TW
I think you may have stumbled upon a latent demand for a goathead breeding program. Breed a strain of tribulus terrestris that drives cars and constantly accesses TikTok, and it will both proliferate and become thornless.
MoneyPit
10 W
All you have to do is ride about 30 feet with Tannus inside a tire and thats all the test you will need. Its like the wheel is dead inside. I'm using it on a bigass 2wd cargo bike so I've got the juice to overcome that. After a few months the Tannus is paper thin but ifits that or nothing I'll take it.
Here's an interesting aside about using Tannus that you wouldn't expect: It folds over the tube entirely and encases it completely. That makes pinching the tube with the tire pretty much impossible during install. Much appreciated on a side-of-the-road fixit session.
DaLanMan
10 kW
wow, I never actually did just a google search, I hit up the places I buy tires and looked for blue ones..
WIll probably be following this up in another thread to see which of these are the least terrible.
WIll probably be following this up in another thread to see which of these are the least terrible.
I stopped by Aliexpress just to see what tires they have that are colored. I see Kenda has some but sizes are extremely limited. Even some solid colored tires. Fun to look at but wouldn't dare ride any of them.
Attachments
When I was in my DayGlo Avenger-bike phase 
I wanted dayglo-pink tires (and bike, clothes, etc), because that color is the most visible in the poorest lighting conditions around dusk and dawn, when I used to have to ride most of the time, *and* because nobody wanted to be seen riding with such colors, so it was less likely to be pilfered or messed with.
Nowadays I just use good lighting (and a lot of it) and a big cargo trike (which is big enough it might hurt their car a little bit if they hit me), and ride in the street (or bike lane if available *and* safe to use), rather than sidewalk-switching-to-street-as-needed, etc., so I don't worry much about the tire color, since it is such a tiny fraction of the surface area of the trike (vs being a significant part of the bike's area).
Though, I'd still paint the trike dayglo pink if it wouldn't fade in weeks to nearly white in the sun here. :lol:
I wanted dayglo-pink tires (and bike, clothes, etc), because that color is the most visible in the poorest lighting conditions around dusk and dawn, when I used to have to ride most of the time, *and* because nobody wanted to be seen riding with such colors, so it was less likely to be pilfered or messed with.Nowadays I just use good lighting (and a lot of it) and a big cargo trike (which is big enough it might hurt their car a little bit if they hit me), and ride in the street (or bike lane if available *and* safe to use), rather than sidewalk-switching-to-street-as-needed, etc., so I don't worry much about the tire color, since it is such a tiny fraction of the surface area of the trike (vs being a significant part of the bike's area).
Though, I'd still paint the trike dayglo pink if it wouldn't fade in weeks to nearly white in the sun here. :lol:
DaLanMan
10 kW
There are a few factors in why my son is getting this ridiculous request fullfilled.
He is 12 now, we lost his sister when he was 8, and they were very close.
Grief and loss come with their own burdens. He took it like a champ even when I basically checked out for a couple weeks and proceeded to drain a river of whiskey, it didn't help. Monkey however stepped up, knew what was going on and forgave me for being an idiot. Kid has heart.
That coupled with his dad being the neighborhood bike mechanic (as sad as my skills are) and the fact is, it is the only thing he has asked for independent of the work process "Plan, document, prep. Embark" So, they are dumb, they are gonna be constant flat magnets...
Boy is getting blue tires if I have to design the process myself.
He is 12 now, we lost his sister when he was 8, and they were very close.
Grief and loss come with their own burdens. He took it like a champ even when I basically checked out for a couple weeks and proceeded to drain a river of whiskey, it didn't help. Monkey however stepped up, knew what was going on and forgave me for being an idiot. Kid has heart.
That coupled with his dad being the neighborhood bike mechanic (as sad as my skills are) and the fact is, it is the only thing he has asked for independent of the work process "Plan, document, prep. Embark" So, they are dumb, they are gonna be constant flat magnets...
Boy is getting blue tires if I have to design the process myself.
offGridDownUnder
10 kW
DaLanMan
10 kW
Those look like foam capped inner tubes? that is pretty nice, wonder if they have sources on the top of the planet...
Off to look, thanks for the pointer.
Off to look, thanks for the pointer.
DaLanMan
10 kW
Good news/bad news...
Tannus America does sell here, they have numerous shops in easy driving distance.. and they sell the full selection and will do installations...
bad news, they only sell the inner portion, not the outer.. so no tires just tubey bits...
And the bad news... No shiney blue tires.. I think that when they are purchased I will just expect them to be craptacular and go to the shop and get the armour inserts...
Thanks for the lead on that.
Tannus America does sell here, they have numerous shops in easy driving distance.. and they sell the full selection and will do installations...
bad news, they only sell the inner portion, not the outer.. so no tires just tubey bits...
And the bad news... No shiney blue tires.. I think that when they are purchased I will just expect them to be craptacular and go to the shop and get the armour inserts...
Thanks for the lead on that.
jetpackjbd
100 W
What about foam filled or solid rubber?
Chalo
100 TW
Those roll like crap, ride like crap, and beat your wheels into crap. But if that's what you want, they're perennially available.
Usually the first pair someone tries out is also the last.
MoneyPit
10 W
If they worked well, everyone would use them, right?
I've tried at least a couple of variants on different builds, neither successfully.
One was on a "normal" bike (DayGlo Avenger) and the rear wheel basically fell apart (spokes loosened, then rim warped, etc) as the rim had no protection against deformation by the beating it took from the road, as there's no air to provide the suspension that an air filled (pneumatic) tire does.
Another was the front tire of an SWB trike (Delta Tripper), and it was mushy like a really low tire, caused handling problems, and IIRC eventually came off the rim with the tire in a turn. I think I moved it to a trailer and had the same problems there.
EDIT: I misremembered the last bit:
endless-sphere.com
the tire did come off the rim (not "in a turn", though, in this instance), but I had the trailer with me and moved the failing wheel to the trailer off the trike, swapping them so I could get home.
One was on a "normal" bike (DayGlo Avenger) and the rear wheel basically fell apart (spokes loosened, then rim warped, etc) as the rim had no protection against deformation by the beating it took from the road, as there's no air to provide the suspension that an air filled (pneumatic) tire does.
Another was the front tire of an SWB trike (Delta Tripper), and it was mushy like a really low tire, caused handling problems, and IIRC eventually came off the rim with the tire in a turn. I think I moved it to a trailer and had the same problems there.
EDIT: I misremembered the last bit:
Amberwolf's Delta Trike Build v1.0 (The Delta Tripper)
They do! :lol: The first week's mileage should pay for all the dog food I have been buying up on clearance the last month or so, whcih itself should last me several months. :) The second week's mileage should pay for whatever clearance dog food I manage to get from *this* store's remodel...
endless-sphere.com
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Some updates on the Kenda situation.
They asked me for a review of the tires so i left one mentioning all the problems with the online store.
Looks like i got their attention and finally they contacted me and want a phone call to explain the problems.
I decided to order 2 24" drumlin cargo tires and will post the results of a poke test on that tire too once it's arrived.
They asked me for a review of the tires so i left one mentioning all the problems with the online store.
Looks like i got their attention and finally they contacted me and want a phone call to explain the problems.
I decided to order 2 24" drumlin cargo tires and will post the results of a poke test on that tire too once it's arrived.
Following up.
I had the first goathead flat on 08/26/2024. It's goat head season again... just as the weather is getting good.
Measures 4.5mm. They'll just get nastier from here on out.
Got out the regulation grade poking device:
Again for reference, here's the poke test measurement on Kenda Kwick Journey KS+.
11.45mm - 2.93mm = 8.52mm of penetration depth
Here's the Kenda Drumlin Cargo
11.45mm - 3.62mm = 7.83mm of penetration depth
The Kenda Drumlin Cargo has a significantly harder compound & is a hair lighter ( 1205g vs the Journey @ 1336g ).
I wonder if this additional hardness outweighs the loss of .7mm for the purposes of a goathead encounter.
It's definitely hard to get the pin in by hand. Close to as difficult as a moped tire. That's a good sign.
In this same measurement, the meatiest of the Schwalbe plus took 7mm and had a weaker strength rubber than both of these tires. No wonder they don't work.
Yeah these tires seem badass.
Ride impressions?
I put a Kwick Journey KS+ 26 x 1.75" on my no-motor pedal bike and inflated it to 55psi ( max is 60psi )
I'd say the added drag versus a regular 'ol bike tire is pretty notable, feels like it's 75% of the way to being a motorcycle tire.
Going up a test hill, i need to drop 1-2 gears because the rolling resistance is too bad.
Road irregularity dampening is great, it's very close to making the road feel dead. It's like a suspension in and of itself. it almost reminds me of a motorcycle tire in this aspect.
Swapped this for a Drumlin Cargo 26 x 2.2" @ 55psi
Ride quality: very slightly rougher, but still miles ahead of a typical bike tire, IE, quite good, nice damping still
Rolling resistance is much improved; vs a regular bike tire it goes 25% in the direction of feeling like a motorcycle tire.
I can almost ride uphill in the same gear vs a 700c x 35mm wide tire.
But here's the kicker..
The Drumlin Cargo can take up to 70 PSI... so the rolling resistance can go a bit lower..
I believe the harder compound is why the Drumlin Cargo rolls better. Less deformation going on. It's weight is deceiving.
I believe the Drumlin Cargo plus some sealant ( flatout ) would be where it's at for flat protection against goatheads. The sealant would add some rolling drag, but i believe it wouldn't be as bad as the Kwick journey in total.
if we use a drumlin cargo with sealant, there's only 3.17mm to poke into the innertube & for the sealant to deal with, so i think it might be possible to win the war against goatheads this year.
Imma ride the bike sans flatout & we'll see how it goes!
I had the first goathead flat on 08/26/2024. It's goat head season again... just as the weather is getting good.
Measures 4.5mm. They'll just get nastier from here on out.
Got out the regulation grade poking device:
Again for reference, here's the poke test measurement on Kenda Kwick Journey KS+.
11.45mm - 2.93mm = 8.52mm of penetration depth
Here's the Kenda Drumlin Cargo
11.45mm - 3.62mm = 7.83mm of penetration depth
The Kenda Drumlin Cargo has a significantly harder compound & is a hair lighter ( 1205g vs the Journey @ 1336g ).
I wonder if this additional hardness outweighs the loss of .7mm for the purposes of a goathead encounter.
It's definitely hard to get the pin in by hand. Close to as difficult as a moped tire. That's a good sign.
In this same measurement, the meatiest of the Schwalbe plus took 7mm and had a weaker strength rubber than both of these tires. No wonder they don't work.
Yeah these tires seem badass.
Ride impressions?
I put a Kwick Journey KS+ 26 x 1.75" on my no-motor pedal bike and inflated it to 55psi ( max is 60psi )
I'd say the added drag versus a regular 'ol bike tire is pretty notable, feels like it's 75% of the way to being a motorcycle tire.
Going up a test hill, i need to drop 1-2 gears because the rolling resistance is too bad.
Road irregularity dampening is great, it's very close to making the road feel dead. It's like a suspension in and of itself. it almost reminds me of a motorcycle tire in this aspect.
Swapped this for a Drumlin Cargo 26 x 2.2" @ 55psi
Ride quality: very slightly rougher, but still miles ahead of a typical bike tire, IE, quite good, nice damping still
Rolling resistance is much improved; vs a regular bike tire it goes 25% in the direction of feeling like a motorcycle tire.
I can almost ride uphill in the same gear vs a 700c x 35mm wide tire.
But here's the kicker..
The Drumlin Cargo can take up to 70 PSI... so the rolling resistance can go a bit lower..
I believe the harder compound is why the Drumlin Cargo rolls better. Less deformation going on. It's weight is deceiving.
I believe the Drumlin Cargo plus some sealant ( flatout ) would be where it's at for flat protection against goatheads. The sealant would add some rolling drag, but i believe it wouldn't be as bad as the Kwick journey in total.
if we use a drumlin cargo with sealant, there's only 3.17mm to poke into the innertube & for the sealant to deal with, so i think it might be possible to win the war against goatheads this year.
Imma ride the bike sans flatout & we'll see how it goes!
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Been riding on these Kenda Drumlin Cargos as a rear tire with a regular narrow tire on front.
I continually see smaller goatheads, or remnants of them on my front tire but zero on my 2x wider rear Kenda tire.
That's interesting because the rear tire is where i have a majority of my issues.
I saw and felt a Schwalbe Pickup 26" tire in a local bike shop and was very unimpressed. The tread was super soft like a regular bike tire, seems 66% softer than the Kenda Cargos.
My theory that goatheads don't do a good job of attaching to a harder tire. That's why i never had a problem with goathead on car tires or motorcycle tires.
We'll fined out of i'm right or not around the peak of goathead season in November.
I continually see smaller goatheads, or remnants of them on my front tire but zero on my 2x wider rear Kenda tire.
That's interesting because the rear tire is where i have a majority of my issues.
I saw and felt a Schwalbe Pickup 26" tire in a local bike shop and was very unimpressed. The tread was super soft like a regular bike tire, seems 66% softer than the Kenda Cargos.
My theory that goatheads don't do a good job of attaching to a harder tire. That's why i never had a problem with goathead on car tires or motorcycle tires.
We'll fined out of i'm right or not around the peak of goathead season in November.
I've had some good success this year running the Schwalbe Marathon Addix 4season tyres. Got over 6 months out of one with no punctures or pinch flats before the tread started to rip out. I'm pretty hard on tyres and tear them up on sharp rocks so that is a good result for me.
Previously I've had to choose between street focused, hard wearing tyres with terrible off-road performance or off road tyres that wear out super fast, or easily get punctures/pinch flats.
The Addix 4season seems to finally be a good balance between the two and works for me.
Cheers
Previously I've had to choose between street focused, hard wearing tyres with terrible off-road performance or off road tyres that wear out super fast, or easily get punctures/pinch flats.
The Addix 4season seems to finally be a good balance between the two and works for me.
Cheers
Do you have goatheads in your area? i've tried all the best puncture proof tires over the years, including Schwalbe's thickest and none stood up to the onslaught.
Schwalbes have been the most disappointing of them all for me over the last decade. Their best is slightly better than an average bike tire. I think the reason is that this 7mm of total thickness is very soft and compresses down to 4-5mm. No match for a goathead with a 11mm spine.
If you don't heave goatheads, your puncture proofing needs are a lot lower than mine. Almost any tire that describes itself as puncture proof will work great for you.
Schwalbes have been the most disappointing of them all for me over the last decade. Their best is slightly better than an average bike tire. I think the reason is that this 7mm of total thickness is very soft and compresses down to 4-5mm. No match for a goathead with a 11mm spine.
If you don't heave goatheads, your puncture proofing needs are a lot lower than mine. Almost any tire that describes itself as puncture proof will work great for you.
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