72V 3000W Cyclone Electric and Gas Generator Build (SBP kit) - Three Phase Dev

[bakaneko]

Thanks! Yeah, this generator weighs 25lbs and cost $150 plus like $20 in materials. The weight is definitely another battery probably pushing me up to 2.4 kWh with my scooter batteries at about $240-270. But, with this I will never have to worry about running out of juice or where I will charge again.

The other thing is I like to go on real long bike rides. I went 140 miles in a day last year on 500wH and 500W rear hub. It was fun to do that but will be even more fun now since I have more power on hand and the generator.

I dunno. This isnt for everyone as I mentioned before. I started with bikes on motorized gas bikes and electric bikes (1000W SLA) and had and experience with many of the two since so I kinda have a feel though definitely not expertise of both worlds. I like things from one and from the other, this project I hope to combine as many of those good things together. And, this is a proof of concept, an actual prototype will have an inframe generator and premium battery on top (heat shield between though generator barely gives off heat above).

I will start doing simple test. I do still need to figure out how to get it to 500W generation. I like three options normal (~160W), fast (~320W), and super (~500W) the generator has a capacity of 800W continuous.

Also, this is quiet dude. LOL, this is operating RPM noise though I think the garage setting amplified the noise a little. Believe me, compared to gas motorized bikes this thing is quiet. :lol:

Here is what I envision a prototype will look. The generator manual came with an assembly drawing so one can study that and disassemble it and mount it the in frame of the bike.

 

[bakaneko]

Ughh, I also want to inline a watt meter on one of the 36V batteries (72V series) but I know that you should not try to make the cables connecting the batteries to the system of unequal lengths and resistance as it might cause one battery to be more stressed or charged unequally.

Do you guys know if a small RC 60V100A watt meter on one of the batteries will cause an issue?

I have these two. The second one saids it only 0.001 Ohms resistance and circuitry that draws only 7 mA

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Precision-rc-130A-watt-meter-and-power-analyzer-LCD-gt-power-60V-H-P/143190511320?hash=item2156d1ced8:g3UAAOSwHwNbjOIz
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-60V-100A-Digital-Monitor-LCD-Watt-Meter-Ammeter-RC-Battery-Power-Amp-Analyzer/332842116833?hash=item4d7eefa6e1:g:yIYAAOSwsshbxYXH

 

[bakaneko]

Here are some test results with the 160W charger setup. I did two test at 15 and 20 mph with and without generator. The 20 mph test with generator might be slightly incorrect as the wind conditions picked up substantially for that test. Overall, at 15 mph, the power consumption reduced by 50%, which is inline with 300W power requirement and 160W coming from charger/generator. I definitely want to get that 400W charger setup soon to really utilize the generator while not over taxing it (half load).

https://youtu.be/6OV_MXBcYnI

 

[Jayw900]

I like it, keep on Goin.

 

[bakaneko]

I like it, keep on Goin.

Thanks. I am not done with the bike yet. I need to plan and test the final charging options. I hope it will be 3A and 5A, which would be respectively 14 and 19 mph addition to the battery. This also keeps the generator in eco mode and extends gas duration and generator life. I hope to accomplish this via two chargers but might have to try a AC-DC transformer to a step up converter, :|

The generator weighs 25lbs and for this proof of concept (not prototype) is positioned as a low left side pannier. I need to figure out what is the expected performance of this addition towards speed and range. I have my own expectation of the hybrid but I wonder what others expect from something like this even as a prototype it will be about 25 lb though hopefully much more quiet.

I dont mean to spam so next post will be test with new charger hopefully. But, what are people's expectation of a 25lb 800W max generator on an ebike? double continuous range, triple, infinite?

 

[bakaneko]

So, I got the same 72V3A charger (diff seller) and it had the same damn noise when I got it. But, I opened it and removed the two small metal bits and it actually worked with the generator. So, now I am at 240W charging from 160W charging on a 800W generator. Here are the results. I was really hoping to hit the 100 miles at 20 mph continuous (flat, no wind, 1000 wH battery). But I think the wind picked up on last lap of 20 mph run; its about to storm hard here. But, I'll not redo the 20 mph test. 15 mph looks good as hell; 185 mile range + 229 mpg. So, it looks I need that 5A (420W) charger to easily hit 100 miles at 20 mph and hopefully 80 miles at 25 mph from a full battery (~1000 wH).

Right now, I am a slower person so I think 100 miles at 20 mph is a decent goal (1000wH battery). But, I mean how does a hybrid have to perform to be worth building. This is also a proof of concept and an actual hybrid would have an inframe generator and battery on top tube and not look so freakish.

https://youtu.be/N_OqsJB2Cxk

 

[Raketemensch]

I'm enjoying the crap out of this thread. Do you have some recent pictures of the setup?

 

[bakaneko]

I'm enjoying the crap out of this thread. Do you have some recent pictures of the setup?

Thanks, I am glad people are getting enjoyment out of this. Here are some pictures of the setup. It seems bigger than it is :lol: . I have gotten use to the weight of it in riding. But, this is just a proof of concept to get numbers and I need to redo the entire battery boxes and wires to make it waterproof for a 500-600 cross state ride. Maybe, a full fledge streamline prototype in the fall/winter.

 

[wturber]

I suggest mounting the battery on the other side of the rear wheel opposite of the generator.

 

[bakaneko]

I suggest mounting the battery on the other side of the rear wheel opposite of the generator.

There is already too much weight on the back. It isnt that bad and I've gotten use to it. Just dont lean hard turn on side of generator. But, this is a proof of concept testing out a hybrid gas generator ebike and I am fine with the awkwardness of the generator placement. Here it is what I envision a prototype or near production model would look like. In addition to the generator, it will have other novelties as well. As, you can see, the generator in this concept would be inline and inframe and be balanced on the bike.

Also, the 420W charger is on its way from china. Either way, I think that is the last of the chargers I want to buy. This will put the generator at 50% load at max charging thus prolonging the life of the generator and reducing maintenance. Goal is 25 mph at 80 miles continuous with 1kwH battery before having to stop and let it charge.

 

[wturber]

I'd seriously consider a long tail or commuter frame. More room to mount stuff. Smoother ride.

 

[bakaneko]

I'd seriously consider a long tail or commuter frame. More room to mount stuff. Smoother ride.

Thanks for the tip. Yeah, I really want a fat tire bike but a bigger/longer frame is essential to mount the disassemble generator correctly. But, this is far in the future. I mean if the space can hold a rectangular generator that is 18"x9"x15.75" that would be ideal as then you wont have to disassemble the generator. But, does such a frame even exist that isnt custom and cost a arm and leg.

 

[wturber]

I'd seriously consider a long tail or commuter frame. More room to mount stuff. Smoother ride.

Thanks for the tip. Yeah, I really want a fat tire bike but a bigger/longer frame is essential to mount the disassemble generator correctly. But, this is far in the future. I mean if the space can hold a rectangular generator that is 18"x9"x15.75" that would be ideal as then you wont have to disassemble the generator. But, does such a frame even exist that isnt custom and cost a arm and leg.

Not sure why I said commuter, I meant "cargo." Anyway, search for "longtail" on this forum and you can find way to extend a standard steel frame. That might be the cheapest if you know how to weld. The typical scheme is to add the rear triangle from a donor bike onto the the back of a standard frame. Search google for "DIY longtail bicycle" and look at the images.

Next up is to buy a used Xtracycle which is a bolt on conversion.

https://www.xtracycle.com/free-radical-leap-conversion-kit/

 

[Raketemensch]

I dunno, maybe just mount a sidecar and drop a V6 in it

 

[bakaneko]

I dunno, maybe just mount a sidecar and drop a V6 in it

Guys, its a proof of concept, meaning it is okay if it looks cruddy and awkward as it is now. I am getting the numbers for the hybrid and checking it against both electric and gas motorized bike performance and statistics. I went on a 28.3 mile ride today and averaged 10wH/mi at about 17.5 mph. That is compared to 25-26 wH/mi without the generator. The 420W (72V5A) charger should be here mid to end of May. Then I will dial in the sweet spot for speed, fuel economy, range and headwind.

 

[Raketemensch]

I dunno, maybe just mount a sidecar and drop a V6 in it

Guys, its a proof of concept, meaning it is okay if it looks cruddy and awkward as it is now. I am getting the numbers for the hybrid and checking it against both electric and gas motorized bike performance and statistics. I went on a 28.3 mile ride today and averaged 10wH/mi at about 17.5 mph. That is compared to 25-26 wH/mi without the generator. The 420W (72V5A) charger should be here mid to end of May. Then I will dial in the sweet spot for speed, fuel economy, range and headwind.

Don’t get discouraged on my account, It was just a joke. I can’t wait to see this bird fly.

 

[bakaneko]

Just got an update. 420W (84V5A) charger will be here by the end of this week. I will put it on early next week and do tests. Hoping for good results! Estimated 200+ hybrid mpg and 100+ mile of range with a full battery at 22-24MPH. :lol:

 

[bakaneko]

Hey guys. This probably concludes all the testing I hope to do on this bike. I finished the 420W testing and results are below in pic and video discussion. Initially, this was a 3 phase dev (additional battery, generator, wind cutting fairings) but I am not going to do the wind cutting fairings because this thing is enough of a cop magnet already.

Well, I think the results with the 420W charging are good. I am getting 275mpg/217mile range at 20 mph and probably like 300mpg/120mile range at 22-23mph. That is good enough for me. Keep in mind this is a proof of concept not a prototype. Here are my advantages and disadvantages that I found of this hybrid.

Advantages
- Quiet with generator compared to a 2-stroke and 4-stroke at operating rpm with 420W. Silent in stealth mode (battery only)
- Infinite range if you are willing to wait a little for the bike to charge with the 420W charger
- Cruising speed of 20-22 mph
- Incredibly low vibrations (not optimized); you dont feel it at all
- Bike can still flip and wheelie even with 25lb generator; near instant torque off the line
- Generator is incredibly reliable and well built for $150 (no futzing around with bolts and nuts just oil change)

Disadvantages
- Generator is heavy; iffy going super fast with that added weight unbalanced (prototype will have generator inline in frame)
- Noise over electric. While still quiet relative to 2 and 4-stroke bikes, I love to have it be absolutely silent. Still gotta work on your suggestions from other thread about quieting it down
- Annoying to have to pull start the generator versus a simple switch for electric...
- You are a walking carnival. People stare and gawk; half the time I feel like they are calling the cops in their car LOL

Its been fun. Now, I will go cross the state 200-300 miles after tidying it up. I dunno if I want to do prototype. Main key points of prototype will be 1. inline generator, 2. plug and play rear hub motors (500-5000W compatible), 3. generic branded battery management system (36-72V can switch ez), and fat tire motorbike look all the way bebe!

EDIT: Note starting voltage is charging voltage so actual starting voltage is like 79.8-80V so in the case of 15mph I gained 1V, which means it charges and powers bike. At 20mph, it is breakeven as expected 420W = 20mph for me. At 23-24mph, I lose 1V for 3mile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANyMLQsyzI8

 

[Tommm]

Share a pic?

 

[bakaneko]

Hey, here is video of walkaround without generator on it (0:45 - 1:30). But, you can see pic below of it (don't include 420W charger). I will canvas it with a faux leather wrap as explained in video to hide all that crap and take off the power meter on top. Will look decent after I do so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXrL8cWUhZE&t=46s

 

[Raketemensch]

Such a cool project, glad to see it in action.

 

[bakaneko]

Okay, been riding it around for a while now. That side generator really, really attracts too much attention I think more than a regular gas motorized bicycle. I just finished a 42 mile ride today starting at like less than 50% state of charge, which for a 42 mile ride is not possible on an ebike and road in a chic town without the generator on which is not possible with a gas bike.

But, I decided to get a cruiser bike with a 7 speed rear cassette and a S shaped down tube and then take the engine out of its plastic casing and stick it into the frame. At most without the plastic, the generator engine should be 9" tall and 10-12" length depending on the pull cord housing. Mounting it will be fun as the mount bolts are not on the bottom of the engine casing but at the sides.

I really want a fat tire bike look and also for off road touring possibilities but the ones online for cheap frame seems just too small and too risky to buy. I don't think this cruiser bike will be able to fit a fat tire; maybe a 3" wheel/tire if I am lucky which would be great.

Here is the diagram that I made of where things might go on the cruiser bike. I will remove the bird, cup holder, and big seat and repaint it to a Ducati Panigale color scheme when everything is tested and solid.

 

[Raketemensch]

At most without the plastic, the generator engine should be 9" tall and 10-12" length depending on the pull cord housing.

I wonder how much torque you would need to electric-start an engine that small?

 

[bakaneko]

At most without the plastic, the generator engine should be 9" tall and 10-12" length depending on the pull cord housing.

I wonder how much torque you would need to electric-start an engine that small?

Not much at all. A simple cordless drill can do it easily. Currently, I have the pull cord against the wheel on the bike so I have to remove the generator each time to start/restart which is a pain in the butt. With this in frame setup, I wont have to do that anymore thx goodness...

Yeah, but electric start will be a future upgrade. Getting this generator mounted will not be fun

 

[bakaneko]

I tried prepping the Cyclone for the transfer and its too far rusted to take out. The cranks wont come off and threads are just shot now. I did it properly too; its just too rusted from water intrusion. Yep, remember that stupid plastic cap on the pedal bolts. Now I know what they are for :lol: And, even if I did get the pedal cranks off. I am sure that bottom bracket is rusted shut too.

So, I am just gonna put the 500W gearless hub motor on there for now and buy an upgraded (22 to 36A) controller for it and might upgrade to a 72V gearless hub later. I will have to adjust that 420W charger, which apparently there are small dials inside to adjust the voltage and amperage (Vorteck video). I need to test it out and hope I dont fry it or electrocute myself before hooking it all up. I will just sell the Cyclone mountain bike after cleaning it up a bit or keep it.

Have 3 days off so hoping to

1. Document and disconnect all electric wires from engine today
2. Complete the mount for the engine tomorrow
3. Test the generator in the bike frame and permanently mount the batteries the day after

EDIT: I just put together a quick battery setup and etc. But, wow, the 500W hub is so slow compared to the 3kW Cyclone... For fook sakes, I don't know man maybe I look at trying to remove that engine again...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr2p_PppCMM