TylerDurden
100 GW
LOL.... I'll put it on the mantle after I let the smoke out of it.donob08 said:
A different e-Zip Trailz
- Thread starter Blacklisted
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bluthermal
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I'd appreciate feedback from those with similar experiences, in case there is a chance there might really be an inexpensive, reliable, and simple option out there for me.
This last Tuesday my month old 36V 250W MY1018 burned up on my commute to work. That was very disappointing. It seems my route conditions and weight (200 lb rider on a heavy bike) are simply too much for regular commuting reliability with these cheap small motors.
It turns out that the first motor, that comes with the bike from Currie, is in fact 24V 450W (at least in the USA). It ran OK for me for the first two months at 24V. Apparently Currie has/had an exclusive right on it for the first year. So my senses were correct when it seemed the 250W version didn't have as much pep or speed as the original from Currie.
I didn't realize until recently, when I actually went looking through some of the cooling posts, that the cooling mods for upping the voltage on the motors were as elaborate as they were, requiring forced air fed from impellers.
So part of this week I've been riding another, lighter, non-ebike to work, pondering what my next move should be. I'm on a real tight budget, and need something inexpensive and reliable. I want to keep using my expensive 36V 20Ah lifePO from Ping.
Maybe, when I can get my hands on a 36V 450W MY1018 geared motor, it may be enough to last longer than my other two motors did, but maybe not. I'm pretty leery about that right now.
I sure did enjoy the temporary speed and power boost running the 24V 450W motor at 36V gave, but I'm suspicious that that might not last very long, even with the impeller modifications.
Maybe I need something even bigger like the 36V 600W MY1020 geared motor, but it may not be as easy of a replacement. I would prefer the bigger motor if it will work.
Does the MY1020 geared motor use the same bolt pattern dimensions around the gear drive as the MY1018, and can the MY1020 use the same 9 tooth #35 or 1/8 x 1/2 inch sprocket as the MY1018 geared motor uses?
Again, I'd appreciate feedback from those with similar experiences, in case there is a chance there might really be an inexpensive, reliable, and simple option out there for me.
I just got done skimming thru the E-cumbent by Matt Shumaker thread with the AXI to eventual Plettenberg Eliminator motor configuration. Wow! What a dream machine that seems to be. Exactly what I would want, and have imagined, for a drive system... someday, I hope. The skills and talents of some of those in this forum are incredible.
This last Tuesday my month old 36V 250W MY1018 burned up on my commute to work. That was very disappointing. It seems my route conditions and weight (200 lb rider on a heavy bike) are simply too much for regular commuting reliability with these cheap small motors.
It turns out that the first motor, that comes with the bike from Currie, is in fact 24V 450W (at least in the USA). It ran OK for me for the first two months at 24V. Apparently Currie has/had an exclusive right on it for the first year. So my senses were correct when it seemed the 250W version didn't have as much pep or speed as the original from Currie.
I didn't realize until recently, when I actually went looking through some of the cooling posts, that the cooling mods for upping the voltage on the motors were as elaborate as they were, requiring forced air fed from impellers.
So part of this week I've been riding another, lighter, non-ebike to work, pondering what my next move should be. I'm on a real tight budget, and need something inexpensive and reliable. I want to keep using my expensive 36V 20Ah lifePO from Ping.
Maybe, when I can get my hands on a 36V 450W MY1018 geared motor, it may be enough to last longer than my other two motors did, but maybe not. I'm pretty leery about that right now.
I sure did enjoy the temporary speed and power boost running the 24V 450W motor at 36V gave, but I'm suspicious that that might not last very long, even with the impeller modifications.
Maybe I need something even bigger like the 36V 600W MY1020 geared motor, but it may not be as easy of a replacement. I would prefer the bigger motor if it will work.
Does the MY1020 geared motor use the same bolt pattern dimensions around the gear drive as the MY1018, and can the MY1020 use the same 9 tooth #35 or 1/8 x 1/2 inch sprocket as the MY1018 geared motor uses?
Again, I'd appreciate feedback from those with similar experiences, in case there is a chance there might really be an inexpensive, reliable, and simple option out there for me.
I just got done skimming thru the E-cumbent by Matt Shumaker thread with the AXI to eventual Plettenberg Eliminator motor configuration. Wow! What a dream machine that seems to be. Exactly what I would want, and have imagined, for a drive system... someday, I hope. The skills and talents of some of those in this forum are incredible.
bluthermal
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Tyler,
Have you been running your awesomely drilled out 24V MY 1018 geared motor sucessfully with long hard runs at 36V? If yes, are you still not using forced-air cooling?
I just got done reading the llllooonnnggg thread on Icing your motor (cooling ideas), and came away disapointed. I'm still trying to figure out if I should just drill out the motor, or also add forced air cooling with a blower. I'm still skeptical that both will be enough, but would prefer to only drill if that will work as well (or almost as well) as doing both.
Adding a blower adds more complexity and cost, something I'd like to avoid if possible. Icing and precooling the motor doesn't seem too practical for a daily commute to and from work situation. 4HP amp hog motors don't sound too good either.
I wonder how well Mile's hair dryer solution is working? That's seems like a nice mod too.
I'm also considering altering my route to avoid some of the longer steep sections, and have shorter steep sections.
Anyone,
From my previous post:
Does the MY1020 geared motor use the same bolt pattern dimensions around the gear drive as the MY1018, and can the MY1020 use the same 9 tooth #35 or 1/8 x 1/2 inch sprocket as the MY1018 geared motor uses?
Have you been running your awesomely drilled out 24V MY 1018 geared motor sucessfully with long hard runs at 36V? If yes, are you still not using forced-air cooling?
I just got done reading the llllooonnnggg thread on Icing your motor (cooling ideas), and came away disapointed. I'm still trying to figure out if I should just drill out the motor, or also add forced air cooling with a blower. I'm still skeptical that both will be enough, but would prefer to only drill if that will work as well (or almost as well) as doing both.
Adding a blower adds more complexity and cost, something I'd like to avoid if possible. Icing and precooling the motor doesn't seem too practical for a daily commute to and from work situation. 4HP amp hog motors don't sound too good either.
I wonder how well Mile's hair dryer solution is working? That's seems like a nice mod too.
I'm also considering altering my route to avoid some of the longer steep sections, and have shorter steep sections.
Anyone,
From my previous post:
Does the MY1020 geared motor use the same bolt pattern dimensions around the gear drive as the MY1018, and can the MY1020 use the same 9 tooth #35 or 1/8 x 1/2 inch sprocket as the MY1018 geared motor uses?
TylerDurden
100 GW
I'm still running at 24V... I need 48hrs each day to get any extra stuff tested.bluthermal said:
I'll let you know when it happens, I'm eager to try for sure.
bluthermal
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The motor drive shaft is ground with 11 teeth. It connects to the driven gear, which has 79 teeth (if I counted correctly). The common center shaft of the driven gear has a 9 tooth chain sprocket outside of the motor's gear housing.
I enlarged the picture of the gears and tried to count the teeth. It looks like the motor gear has 11 teeth and the driven gear has approximately 80 teeth. Can someone confirm or correct this. Thanks.
Ooops - I see bluethermal posted a reply while I wasn't looking. Thanks!
Ooops - I see bluethermal posted a reply while I wasn't looking. Thanks!
bluthermal
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Most of the questions regarding motors and gears from my most recent posts in this thread have gone unanswered
About three weeks ago I finally received my replacement 24V 450W geared motor from the shop where I got my eZip Trailz. About a week ago, I finished with my cooling mods of holes drilled and filed at each end and in the brush plate, along with a 12VDC Rotron muffin fan that happens to fit the brush housing cover four bolt pattern exactly. I placed a thin half inch slice of 3 inch PVC pipe between the brush housing and the fan to provide physical clearance (all ventilation holes at that end are within the inside diameter of the PVC pipe). I also made a homemade filter from an old scotchbrite pad held in place with a piece of fiberglass PCB material cut out the same as the ventillation cutouts on the gear housing side of the motor. The fan pulls the air from the gear housing side out through the brush side. There is not a lot of air-flow, but hopefully it will be enough.
I also got an inexpensive 36VDC to 12DC converter off eBay, and wired it up to the fan with a switch on the handlebars. On my first attempt to test the dc to dc converter, I burned it up (reversed input polarity) , when I misread the schematics regarding which side was top, due to a misplaced label used as a locating reference in the paperwork. The second converter was the same as the first, and also mislabled, but it was not a problem, now that I knew the correct layout.
So, slightly over a week ago, on the weekend, I connected everything up and to my great disappointment, the motor failed to run. I knew it was not the motor, because I ran it with 6VDC to start to seat the brushes, directly off a battery, earlier. Then I questioned my wiring attachment of the dc to dc converter, and just snipped it off with wire cutters. Still, no go. I assumed at this point that when my previous motor fried the two wires coming out of the brush housing, they must have also shorted and taken out the motor controller too (along with the motor).
After going back and forth between the bike dealer and Currie, for a few days, today, a week later I received my new replacement 24V Currie motor controller this afternoon after work. As of this evening, everything is hooked up and working properly with my (first, 24V, and now) 36V setup. I sure hope everything lasts longer than my last two 36V setups. So far, my hilly commute of 7 miles each way, along with my 200 lb weight, has been too much for a reliable 36V setup on my eZip Trailz. Now, the weather is even hotter. I'm going to do my best to take it easy the rest of this week of riding (but it's so hard to do). I have no monitoring devices hooked up, other than my own senses. I've also modified my path to work to have shorter steep sections where possible.
About three weeks ago I finally received my replacement 24V 450W geared motor from the shop where I got my eZip Trailz. About a week ago, I finished with my cooling mods of holes drilled and filed at each end and in the brush plate, along with a 12VDC Rotron muffin fan that happens to fit the brush housing cover four bolt pattern exactly. I placed a thin half inch slice of 3 inch PVC pipe between the brush housing and the fan to provide physical clearance (all ventilation holes at that end are within the inside diameter of the PVC pipe). I also made a homemade filter from an old scotchbrite pad held in place with a piece of fiberglass PCB material cut out the same as the ventillation cutouts on the gear housing side of the motor. The fan pulls the air from the gear housing side out through the brush side. There is not a lot of air-flow, but hopefully it will be enough.
I also got an inexpensive 36VDC to 12DC converter off eBay, and wired it up to the fan with a switch on the handlebars. On my first attempt to test the dc to dc converter, I burned it up (reversed input polarity) , when I misread the schematics regarding which side was top, due to a misplaced label used as a locating reference in the paperwork. The second converter was the same as the first, and also mislabled, but it was not a problem, now that I knew the correct layout.
So, slightly over a week ago, on the weekend, I connected everything up and to my great disappointment, the motor failed to run. I knew it was not the motor, because I ran it with 6VDC to start to seat the brushes, directly off a battery, earlier. Then I questioned my wiring attachment of the dc to dc converter, and just snipped it off with wire cutters. Still, no go. I assumed at this point that when my previous motor fried the two wires coming out of the brush housing, they must have also shorted and taken out the motor controller too (along with the motor).
After going back and forth between the bike dealer and Currie, for a few days, today, a week later I received my new replacement 24V Currie motor controller this afternoon after work. As of this evening, everything is hooked up and working properly with my (first, 24V, and now) 36V setup. I sure hope everything lasts longer than my last two 36V setups. So far, my hilly commute of 7 miles each way, along with my 200 lb weight, has been too much for a reliable 36V setup on my eZip Trailz. Now, the weather is even hotter. I'm going to do my best to take it easy the rest of this week of riding (but it's so hard to do). I have no monitoring devices hooked up, other than my own senses. I've also modified my path to work to have shorter steep sections where possible.
vanilla ice
1 MW
bluthermal said:
I was inspired to drill my ten-18 out by Tyler's post. Running fine unforced at 36v but I try to have some mechanical empathy on the hills (mad pedal), and another thing.. Tyler and my bike are geared to go 20mph max at 36v. That gives the motor a lot easier time than on the 26" tire bikes. If hills worry you more than top speed, maybe emulate our gearing with a larger tooth count on leftie freewheel? I'm not sure what if anything fits tho. Anyway point is- don't assume just because we get away with something, its ok for the bigger bikes.
hey bluthermal.. sounds like you've experienced some pain with 36v.
there is a guy on another forum who is running 36v successfully, but he manages it with short 15 second bursts and then 15-30 second rests for the motor so it doesn't ever get too hot and he is a 200lb rider as well. You may wish to check out his posts. Here is a link to one of them: http://www.ecoforumz.com/electric-bicycle-scooter/14161-happy-my-36v-setup-new-36v-charger.html
there is a guy on another forum who is running 36v successfully, but he manages it with short 15 second bursts and then 15-30 second rests for the motor so it doesn't ever get too hot and he is a 200lb rider as well. You may wish to check out his posts. Here is a link to one of them: http://www.ecoforumz.com/electric-bicycle-scooter/14161-happy-my-36v-setup-new-36v-charger.html
bluthermal
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Vanilla Ice,
Good point about the difference in wheel sizes in yours and Tyler's bikes. I'll keep that in mind. I was also inspired by Tyler's drill-art. I wouldn't mind compromising the speed down to 20mph by having a larger lefty freewheel, if there is something inexpensive that fits directly or easily on the eZip rear wheel, or if there is a smaller gear than the 11 tooth gear at the gearbox end of the motor. I do like having the extra speed though.
How 2,
Thanks for that input too. I need to work on my self control.
This morning, it was actually cool with a pretty good marine layer (probably a fair amount of moisture in the air too, at that time). I didn't go full throttle, unless going downhill. I took plenty of throttle breaks too. I stopped about 3 or 4 times after hill climbs to feel the motor housing, and it was not too hot (subjective). As good or better than I expected.
This afternoon on the return trip It was hot and drier. I also ran the motor harder, with some full throttle going level and some uphill. I stopped about 3 or 4 times after hill climbs to feel the motor housing. The housing was definitely hotter, maybe twice as hot as hot at one or two check points, than at any time in the morning (subjective). I took plenty of throttle breaks too.
I can really see the value of a Watt's up and a thermal sensor. I'll need to work on my self control.
Good point about the difference in wheel sizes in yours and Tyler's bikes. I'll keep that in mind. I was also inspired by Tyler's drill-art. I wouldn't mind compromising the speed down to 20mph by having a larger lefty freewheel, if there is something inexpensive that fits directly or easily on the eZip rear wheel, or if there is a smaller gear than the 11 tooth gear at the gearbox end of the motor. I do like having the extra speed though.
How 2,
Thanks for that input too. I need to work on my self control.
This morning, it was actually cool with a pretty good marine layer (probably a fair amount of moisture in the air too, at that time). I didn't go full throttle, unless going downhill. I took plenty of throttle breaks too. I stopped about 3 or 4 times after hill climbs to feel the motor housing, and it was not too hot (subjective). As good or better than I expected.
This afternoon on the return trip It was hot and drier. I also ran the motor harder, with some full throttle going level and some uphill. I stopped about 3 or 4 times after hill climbs to feel the motor housing. The housing was definitely hotter, maybe twice as hot as hot at one or two check points, than at any time in the morning (subjective). I took plenty of throttle breaks too.
I can really see the value of a Watt's up and a thermal sensor. I'll need to work on my self control.
I looked inside the controller box on my Australian Trailz bike and I notice a small black box with a blue plastic screw on the side...like a potentiometer maybe? Anyone know what this might be and what it does?
Also, to avoid high voltage through the controller and circuitry in general, could extra batteries, like D cell NiMH, be put in line with the wires that go to the motor? I'm thinking, just cut one of the wires, doesn't matter which, and hook each end up to a voltmeter with the throttle engaged a bit. This will tell you which way to put the batteries in line. I may be wrong, but I think that until the throttle is on at least a bit, there is no power to the motor and actually no circuit to the motor, so the batteries will just sit there until the controller creates a circuit and starts feeding power to the motor. Whatever voltage the throttle puts through will have the extra voltage added to it, but only the motor power circuit will be changed; the electronics will be unaffected? Effectively the motor power circuit will have less resistance to current and the current will be increased along with the voltage, the same as if the voltage to the entire set up were increased?
Also, to avoid high voltage through the controller and circuitry in general, could extra batteries, like D cell NiMH, be put in line with the wires that go to the motor? I'm thinking, just cut one of the wires, doesn't matter which, and hook each end up to a voltmeter with the throttle engaged a bit. This will tell you which way to put the batteries in line. I may be wrong, but I think that until the throttle is on at least a bit, there is no power to the motor and actually no circuit to the motor, so the batteries will just sit there until the controller creates a circuit and starts feeding power to the motor. Whatever voltage the throttle puts through will have the extra voltage added to it, but only the motor power circuit will be changed; the electronics will be unaffected? Effectively the motor power circuit will have less resistance to current and the current will be increased along with the voltage, the same as if the voltage to the entire set up were increased?
bluthermal
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This post is to follow up on the early result my cooling mods, a la Tyler (from a couple posts ago). It's been about three weeks of weekday riding (to and from work) since I did the overvolting with forced air cooling mods. My first overvolting attempt without forced air cooling only lasted one week of such riding, when the ambient temperatures were more mild than they are currently.
My initial take is that with the venting holes and fan added, there is a significant improvement in motor longevity. On cool mornings with a damp marine layer, I don't seem to have significant motor heating issues with my modified route to work that eliminates some longer/steeper sections of my old route, even if I ride the bike and motor hard. (I'm still always pedaling, unless on flat or downhill).
Ambient temperature appears to play a big part on the cooling. Hot afternoons above 80 degrees farenheit definitely require more careful monitoring and use of the throttle, since the motor can get very hot to the touch when it is warmer than the cooler mornings. So I still need to control myself. Keeping the bike gearing the same as stock is a good reminder to limit high speed throttle use on flats and mild inclines.
Even though the muffin fan does not move large volumes of air, it still keeps fresh air circulating. It is also helpful that it runs all the time (unless manually switched off), so that it cools even when stopped at intersections, etc.
So far, I'm calling this a success. Thanks for the help from the forum members.
My initial take is that with the venting holes and fan added, there is a significant improvement in motor longevity. On cool mornings with a damp marine layer, I don't seem to have significant motor heating issues with my modified route to work that eliminates some longer/steeper sections of my old route, even if I ride the bike and motor hard. (I'm still always pedaling, unless on flat or downhill).
Ambient temperature appears to play a big part on the cooling. Hot afternoons above 80 degrees farenheit definitely require more careful monitoring and use of the throttle, since the motor can get very hot to the touch when it is warmer than the cooler mornings. So I still need to control myself. Keeping the bike gearing the same as stock is a good reminder to limit high speed throttle use on flats and mild inclines.
Even though the muffin fan does not move large volumes of air, it still keeps fresh air circulating. It is also helpful that it runs all the time (unless manually switched off), so that it cools even when stopped at intersections, etc.
So far, I'm calling this a success. Thanks for the help from the forum members.
docnjoj
1 GW
Did U ever get a larger left side freewheel gear?
otherDoc
otherDoc
bluthermal
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I'm still using the original stock left side freewheel, I like the speed it gives. I have not tried any others.
docnjoj
1 GW
The large gear on the freewheel would go a long way to compensate for the larger wheel. Depending on what U use U could even bolt or weld on standard sprockets to left side.
otherDoc
otherDoc
Blacklisted said:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out this site, It has the same motor as the one in your pictures "Blacklisted"!
250 watt item # MOT-24250G for $89.95
http://www.electricscooterparts.com/motors.html
I have been researching every e-bikes and kit on the net and reading all the forums/reviews, ect hoping to make the righ choice because I will not have a second chance because of my limited income.
I'm not sure if the E-Zip sold here in the US for $398.00 at Wal*Mart is the (250 watt or 450 watt motor) because I have yet to see any pictures of the bike showing the motor side up close, Not any Wal*Mart's in my area have the bike on display either?
The specs say its a 450 watt motor but with the way things get messed up at Wal*Mart you never know what to expect?
Any how if anybody out there who has the USA Wal*Mart E-Zip post some pictures of your motor so it will help some of us figure out what to expect if we want to upgrade to a 450 watt as what "Blacklisted" is hoping is posable?
Oh Yeah! This is my first ever post here so exciouse me if it doesn't come out right!
Thank you all, I'm learning as I go and hope to make the righ choice!
Quote: knowledge comes at a price!
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bluthermal
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Popatap,
IMO, if you buy the bike in the US, from Currie, or Walmart, or a small bike dealer (like I did, from Zclipse in Newport Beach), you'll get a 24V 450W geared motor, because that is what Currie uses.
When I burnt up my first over-volted motor in one week (no forced air cooling or passive cooling vents) from Currie, I replaced it with a 36V 250W motor from TNC scooters, to save money. At that time TNC scooters had only 24V and 36V 250W motors. Only Currie had an exclusive on the 450W motors at that time. I noticed the power difference between the original 450W motor and the replaced 250W motor immeidately.
Note that my first motor ran fine for several weeks at 24V, before I upped the voltage.
TNC scooters might have 450W motors in now, since Currie's exclusive rights were supposed to be for one year only.
All these motors look identical on the outside, It's how they're made inside that differs.
Eventually my overburdened (about two months) 36V 250W motor also burned up. With care (when it's above 75 degrees F), I've been sucessful with my current forced air cooled 24V 450W replacement motor from Currie, running overvolted at 39V for about four or five weeks of daily commuting now.
IMO, if you buy the bike in the US, from Currie, or Walmart, or a small bike dealer (like I did, from Zclipse in Newport Beach), you'll get a 24V 450W geared motor, because that is what Currie uses.
When I burnt up my first over-volted motor in one week (no forced air cooling or passive cooling vents) from Currie, I replaced it with a 36V 250W motor from TNC scooters, to save money. At that time TNC scooters had only 24V and 36V 250W motors. Only Currie had an exclusive on the 450W motors at that time. I noticed the power difference between the original 450W motor and the replaced 250W motor immeidately.
Note that my first motor ran fine for several weeks at 24V, before I upped the voltage.
TNC scooters might have 450W motors in now, since Currie's exclusive rights were supposed to be for one year only.
All these motors look identical on the outside, It's how they're made inside that differs.
Eventually my overburdened (about two months) 36V 250W motor also burned up. With care (when it's above 75 degrees F), I've been sucessful with my current forced air cooled 24V 450W replacement motor from Currie, running overvolted at 39V for about four or five weeks of daily commuting now.
bluthermal
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Mathurin,
Yes.
Yes, 24V 450W (running at 24V) vs. 36V 250W (running at 39V) .
From my own experiences, conversations with TNC scooters, and postings on the Unite website, I respectfully disagree. I have no affilliation with any of these entities.
vanilla ice
1 MW
Like I said... the 1018 exchange program. To match those suckers up.
Mathurin said:
I understand and don't disagree with what you said above. My "450" doesn't blow the 20 amp fuse I put on it at 24 volt (nor did it burn out after extended running at full throttle), so I doubt that it really is truly a "rated" 450.
But it certainly isn't the same as the "250", which is what Bluthermal was responding to. The winding resistance certainly isn't the same.
I think the situation is that there is a "250" version, which is probably a true 250, and there is a "450" version, which probably was expected to operate continuously around 300-400.
Tho
