A reminder of lipo do's and don'ts - Fire aftermath pics

My BIGGEST beef with A123 cells, is that you either pay out the ass for new cells ( if you can even get them ) or deal with used, rejected, pulled out of dead systems, or old cells... no thanks.. i have had plenty of those over the years.. no more.

HK lipo is not " bad " as you claim it to be.. they are perfectly ok at the price they sell at. .. you do the QC upon receiving them ( buy an extra pack with your order ).. follow the user guides and rules and they are reasonably safe imo...

bitch and complain all you want about HK lipo... alternatives are not that greener on the other side of the fence.
 
Ypedal said:
My BIGGEST beef with A123 cells, is that you either pay out the ass for new cells ( if you can even get them ) or deal with used, rejected, pulled out of dead systems, or old cells... no thanks.. i have had plenty of those over the years.. no more.

HK lipo is not " bad " as you claim it to be.. they are perfectly ok at the price they sell at. .. you do the QC upon receiving them ( buy an extra pack with your order ).. follow the user guides and rules and they are reasonably safe imo...

bitch and complain all you want about HK lipo... alternatives are not that greener on the other side of the fence.
Click to expand...

I would never use one without taking the plastic wrapper off and checking it inside first.

I have seen the cells only partly connected where the cells are spot welded together. Not lined up on the welder straight.

And loose globs of solder from connecting the balance leads.

As far as I know these are new, not rejects.

http://www.emissions-free.com/catalog/c2_p1.html
 
I've dealt with approx. 40kg / 90lb HK lipo so far since early 2010. Except for the DOA cells, NONE have performed an unexpected failure.
Some (a couple out of 300-400) cells have become leakers over time but none have caused sudden imbalance. They'd still be working fine if topped off regularly.
As for mechanical issues, yes you might find globs of solder and uneven cell tab connections. You can always strip the packs and check all of this, and still have NEW and CHEAP hi-power cell packs with ready made wiring.
After all, a glob of solder will evaporate upon short circuit long before the cells get any real damage, they are that strong.
 
Ypedal said:
yes.. pls do post some up..

I have plenty..
http://ypedal.com/Lipo/repair.htm
Click to expand...

Ok....

I am going to enjoy the A123 stuff while it is still cheap. The ones I have may well last the rest of my life.

The USA govt can't keep borrowing money from China to keep the price low forever. :)

Maybe someday I will have to use RC lipo to get down the road too. :(

I will take the wrappers off first to check them.
 
Batteries are my escape. In more ways than one.

I can sit almost anywhere and let my mind go into battery land and I like it a lot.

When my mind is in battery land there is no RC lipo. No RC lipo in my battery land ! :) Got kicked out ! :)

Just happy A123 cells and Panasonic 3100 mah. :)

Thanks for doing the videos Ypedal.

This is my video. Really dumb ! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0IJgoj4chI&feature=plcp
 
etriker said:
Hyena said:
etriker said:
to pack several of them next to each other and run them on the street is risky.
Click to expand...
No it's not, they're not going to just suddenly explode :roll:
Again common sense - put them in something to protect them. And even people who foolishly just duct tape them to their frames rarely run into trouble even when crashing (there's been several stories of people dropping or grinding their packs into the road with no ill effects, though obviously this is asking for trouble)
Watch some of liveforphysics destruction videos and see what's REALLY required to make modern day lipo blow up.

It sounds like you've already made up your mind though...

Rodney, as a new user and in general I'd advise you to drop that voltage a little. Bulk charging to 4.2v/cell average means you're almost certainly going to overcharge some cells, even assuming you balance afterwards.
Click to expand...

I took some failed packs apart. I really think they were made not to last a long time. Born to give a big bang and fail early.

And the cells can short. This stuff is for out in the field RC use.
Click to expand...


.
 
Ypedal said:
got pictures ?
Click to expand...
There's at least one picture of a glob of solder from some manufacturing operation in my RC LiPo repair thread. I haven't paid attention to the tab welds and such so I dunno about that, but it sure wouldn't surprise me.

Personally I think the stuff is as safe as any other battery, once you do your own QC and burn-in on it to remove the defective stuff and fix any problems it comes with. ;)

Assuming of course that you follow the "common sense" guidelines others have already discovered and laid out, and you don't deliberately abuse it with wrong chargers connected to the wrong place in the wiring, severely overcharging it, continuing to use damaged packs, running them down way too low after the alarms already told you to stop, and then charging it unattended when you know it's already damaged and at risk of bad stuff. :lol:
 
Personally I think the stuff is as safe as any other battery, once you do your own QC and burn-in on it to remove the defective stuff and fix any problems it comes with.
Click to expand...

Hey, that's a lot of IFs. ;)

Remember what happened to JohnCR brand new pack that he said was (tested?) fine. Also, one look at a single cell going "poof" in that video by Drunkskunk, and it's easy to understand why buildings/homes will burn down at night with these cells. How many people truly safely store these packs when not in use? Other chemistry can fail and burn, but I don't think it happens with the same speed & power these RC type typically can. It's danger is mainly the cheap unprotected shrink-wrap packaging of RC cells too. Neither happening is going to be a positive result, but the spontaneous power punch of these cells to combust-destruct and vaporize itself is obvious in Drunkskunk's video.

Shorts, sparks, super-heating are not that uncommon when dealing with batteries & connecting & disconnecting & charging, etc. Every one of us has done "the short" "spark" heat-melt thing probably waayyy more than once. :twisted:

Fracking KFC anyone? :lol:

P.S. Chroot's Headway 48v 16Ah pack proves any chemistry can burn; he had that pack for only 6 months. Only solution I see for everyone, thinking life/home/family first, is to park your bike w/battery or battery isolated where it can burn itself down and vaporize that area inside a "firezone of safety" and not catch anything else on fire. Really, there's no way to protect yourself and family better, cause you can't always prevent faults. Accidents are a fact of everyone's life experiences. It can happen to you too! :idea:
 
chroot's accident did not prove that. it was his topeak bag that burned, not the batteries.

i thought AW gave good advice. i would add to AW's comments by pointing out that there is no reason for running the positive lead from the battery or the positive charging lead from the charger close to the BMS or even through the battery space. the BMS is a fuse in the negative lead of the battery and should live there, away from any red wires. jmho.
 
dnmun said:
chroot's accident did not prove that. it was his topeak bag that burned, not the batteries.
Click to expand...

Your statement above is simply not factual. You're in error. [<=Edit: I exaggerated. :oops:]

Fact: Both the battery & topeak bag burned. [<=Edit: An exaggeration, the cells burned on the outsides but not much from inside.]

Fact: The battery burned almost completely into char. [<=Edit: An exaggeration, though most battery cells were burned on outside.]

Fact: You do not know the cause of Chroot's battery fire.

We can both agree it definitely was not caused by the Topeak bag, but the soft-bag might have allowed damage to occur to the battery somehow beforehand too, and the bag definitely did help burn the battery cells too. That is a fact. ;)
 
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