A123 20AH cells source?

[lesdit]

I did eat dog when I was in Vietnam, it wasn't much different than beef....

Anywho,
My order for 50 more a123 AMP20 cells is shipping from HK in the next day or two. They were from China,
preped there, and sent further to HK, then to me ( I hope ) .
These are the 'neutered' cells, that have all the tabs cut off. Seller claims this is to allow them to be called junk and shipped more easily. I guess I'll see. It is possible to get low current connections to the cells, for ebike low power usage ( less that 50 amps ), which is my intentions for these particular cells.

 

[miro13car]

Anybody has received small order from Mavizen yet.
Croatiadriver ,
did you get your order from Mavizen your order was rather big.
After extensive reading on the net it seems Mavizen is only retail distributor of A123 but in England.
MCM

 

[lesdit]

My 50 extra cells of AMP20 arrived from China. They rate at 19.5AH when charged to 3.6v and drained to 2.5v , at 30 amps DC rate.
These require extra terminal work ( using a dremel to make a connection place ), but if you don't mind a little work, they are a bargain. I'm using these for E bikes, not my Prius PHEV.

 

[CroDriver]

My 50 extra cells of AMP20 arrived from China. They rate at 19.5AH when charged to 3.6v and drained to 2.5v , at 30 amps DC rate.
These require extra terminal work ( using a dremel to make a connection place ), but if you don't mind a little work, they are a bargain. I'm using these for E bikes, not my Prius PHEV.

How much?

My cells are on the way...

 

[lesdit]

$17 + shipping

How much did you pay ??

 

[bigmoose]

Were they from xueming0061? He now has free shipping, but they work out to $31.50/cell. His pictures show the tabs cut flush.

 

[lesdit]

Tabs: See previous post quoted below.
Yes , that is the seller.

I did eat dog when I was in Vietnam, it wasn't much different than beef....

Anywho,
My order for 50 more a123 AMP20 cells is shipping from HK in the next day or two. They were from China,
preped there, and sent further to HK, then to me ( I hope ) .
These are the 'neutered' cells, that have all the tabs cut off. Seller claims this is to allow them to be called junk and shipped more easily. I guess I'll see. It is possible to get low current connections to the cells, for ebike low power usage ( less that 50 amps ), which is my intentions for these particular cells.

 

[gensem]

the seller is stating 3C continuos and 10C peak.
It is true?

 

[lesdit]

I've only tested them at 40 amps. Minor heat at the terminal. It's all about how the tabs are resurrected from the tab amputation the cells suffered. I'm not really sure of where these came from, I would venture to guess that they were retired from some kind of testing program. Mine have more abrasion scuffing on the sides than I would expect from normal scuffs from shipping. Almost as if they were from a pack that underwent a rigorous pack vibration test cycle, the kind of thing a large auto maker does to a pack as part of the stress simulation of years of road vibration. Then they are demilled ( de-tabbed ,neutered ) to be sold as e-waste. Just a wild guess.

 

[CroDriver]

$17 + shipping

How much did you pay ??

4 times more. But I have no use of cells without tabs.

 

[wojtek]

it is hard enough to build a pack with the cells with terminals

 

[wojtek]

$17 + shipping

How much did you pay ??

4 times more. But I have no use of cells without tabs.

I emailed Mavizen but they never replied...
May i ask how many cells you ordered? shipped to Croatia?

cheers!

 

[davec]

im trying to become to become a north american distributor for these cells for high volume- i've contacted a123 and guess what - they ignored - i've contacted Mavizen and never heard back(not big deal- i mean they are keeping these cells for their own needs and 60US/per cell plus shipping from UK really isn't a good deal) and besides the Michigan plant that makes these cells is down the road from why should i have to order from a foreign source?

a123 has a good product but sadly they have poor management that has no idea how to market products- by ignoring the DYI community they are loosing 20-30% profit but they don't seem to care. the AONE stock price reflects this ignorance- the stock crashed from 18/per share to 4.00- the company is struggling

 

[miro13car]

davec,
don`t give up trying!!

 

[jimw1960]

im trying to become to become a north american distributor for these cells for high volume- i've contacted a123 and guess what - they ignored - i've contacted Mavizen and never heard back(not big deal- i mean they are keeping these cells for their own needs and 60US/per cell plus shipping from UK really isn't a good deal) and besides the Michigan plant that makes these cells is down the road from why should i have to order from a foreign source?

a123 has a good product but sadly they have poor management that has no idea how to market products- by ignoring the DYI community they are loosing 20-30% profit but they don't seem to care. the AONE stock price reflects this ignorance- the stock crashed from 18/per share to 4.00- the company is struggling

Davec, I agree 100% that AONE is missing out on a significant market. I think to have a chance at even getting them to call you back, you need to have some kind of track record for selling similar or related merchandise, a detailed business plan, letters of intent from banks and investors, and all that good stuff. Do you have an existing business that might give you a foot in the door, or know someone you could partner with? Probably also need at least $100k minimum for a first order, probably $1M would be better.

If you do have a serious business plan and investors, one possible way to proceed would be to complain to the Dept. of Energy who is giving AONE huge grants on the premise of kickstarting a green energy future. Ignoring sales opportunities from tax-paying Americans who want to leverage this technology is something DOE might want to know about when AONE gives it's next quarterly update to DOE (which is open to the public, by the way). I'd be interested to help if you are serious about getting their attention and have a serious business plan.

 

[davec]

jim- your totally onto something and you have a point worth fighting over- unfortunately i work 10hr days and i'm not setup as a business yet - i wanted to purchase a large quantity of cells from their plant and re-sell them to the north american DYI community- i left several VM's and emails none of the were answered so be it- I guess you need to put up a fight to get their attention and it's a shame that it's that way- especially for a company that's struggling. it's a shame to see most folks on here have to order their batteries from foreign sources- all these sources are ok but let's face it - the batteries are grade B - or from dismantled sources- a123 oem korea is simply not gunna sell good grade batteries to us(they have their contracts)- but instead of tossing the grade b into the garbage it's simpler to sell it to us. but for ebike and for some grade b is good enough-

 

[bigmoose]

Dave, good luck! If you are successful, I too would be one of your customers.

If my information is correct A123 only "wants" OEM's. They require compliance with their design standards for battery packs, BMS's, safety features, etc. to be willing to sell their cells. They appear to be, shall we say, very "buttoned down."

Again, good luck penetrating their wall!

 

[liveforphysics]

im trying to become to become a north american distributor for these cells for high volume- i've contacted a123 and guess what - they ignored - i've contacted Mavizen and never heard back(not big deal- i mean they are keeping these cells for their own needs and 60US/per cell plus shipping from UK really isn't a good deal) and besides the Michigan plant that makes these cells is down the road from why should i have to order from a foreign source?

a123 has a good product but sadly they have poor management that has no idea how to market products- by ignoring the DYI community they are loosing 20-30% profit but they don't seem to care. the AONE stock price reflects this ignorance- the stock crashed from 18/per share to 4.00- the company is struggling

A123 is struggling because Lithium Iron Phosphate cells became a dead-end obsolete chemistry the moment Lithium Nickle Manganese Cobalt Oxide cells became developed. This was on top of A123 being buried in legal BS over rights to use LiFePO4 (as if anyone on earth has the right to tell anyone else which elements they are permitted to combine...)

All the DIY'ers in the USA all buying A123 and only A123 wouldn't make up for the damage a single lawsuit from a single idiot who injures/burns-down someone/something with A123's products.

Lawyers have made it a fools game to do any business in the USA. Asia has the money, and it's money has value (unlike the USD, which is just a house of cards waiting to fall).

 

[jimw1960]

LUKE, If that were true, Hobby King would have been sued out of existence by now. I'm going to look into when the next time is that AONE has to present their results to DOE on how they are spending the grant money. It should be a meeting open to the public. If enough people show up demanding access to the technology we are subsidizing, it could make a difference.

 

[auraslip]

Lithium Iron Phosphate cells became a dead-end obsolete chemistry

Perhaps threat of lawsuit has halted any more development into lifepo4?

 

[lesdit]

How do the lawyers deal with the 9mm and 223 ammo I can freely purchase ?
And the 12 ga shotgun shells at Walmart, that are not even behind a locked cabinet, and I'm in CA, ?

It's Odd.

All the DIY'ers in the USA all buying A123 and only A123 wouldn't make up for the damage a single lawsuit from a single idiot who injures/burns-down someone/something with A123's products.

Lawyers have made it a fools game to do any business in the USA. Asia has the money, and it's money has value (unlike the USD, which is just a house of cards waiting to fall).

 

[neptronix]

How is nano-lifepo4 dated? There is far more demand than supply of A123 products. The adoption / sales bottleneck is an artificial one.

I don't see the hobby market using NMC yet. People are still buying ping packs, headways, etc. Lifepo4 and nano-lifepo4 are far from dead.

 

[bigmoose]

lesdit, I have thought about your comparison. The comparison that I think works is that ammo is definitely inert until the firing pin hits it. You can (to a reasonable degree) shake it, bake it, tumble it and zap it. It does not go off until the firing pin hits the primer. Everything relevant to the ammo is in the cartridge and is "safe" as it is delivered to the customer.

The battery needs the proper charger, the proper BMS, the proper thermal management, the proper fuse for the system to work and be safe. Therefore the battery manufacturer will not sell cells to an integrator that will not get the system right. In the US you sue for deep pockets and let the chips fall where they may. You and I can incorporate, mess up the integration of cells into an integrated battery and burn the customers house down and injure his kids. He sues, and say our little company is only capitalized at $1M. Small pickings, so the lawsuit includes the cell vendor. He is sued under complicitory negligence, saying he should have known that you and I are incompetent and incapable of developing and manufacturing a safe integrated battery. He should never have sold cells to us. Therefore cell vendor looses. It is all in the hands of 12 non technical jurors.

See why they won't sell cells to a battery manufacturing company that is not capitalized to near their level?

I dislike this paradigm tremendously, but it is what it is in the USA... Small scale innovation will leave our shores.

Now the parallel is that I can go to xxyyzz and buy about any chemical I want... That to me is the parallel.

 

[liveforphysics]

LUKE, If that were true, Hobby King would have been sued out of existence by now. I'm going to look into when the next time is that AONE has to present their results to DOE on how they are spending the grant money. It should be a meeting open to the public. If enough people show up demanding access to the technology we are subsidizing, it could make a difference.

HobbyKing has had hundreds of attempted lawsuits against it. They are protected by the country they are based in having rules about taking responsibility for your own actions, so the lawsuit is only worth it's value in the scratch paper it's printed upon. This is why smart companies move to Asia, because the legal system isn't as foul as ours.

How is nano-lifepo4 dated? There is far more demand than supply of A123 products. The adoption / sales bottleneck is an artificial one.

I don't see the hobby market using NMC yet. People are still buying ping packs, headways, etc. Lifepo4 and nano-lifepo4 are far from dead.

The hobby market is retards buying deadways and thundersags because they don't have access to or knowledge of proper cells.

NMC dominates LiFePO4 in every way, and by a huge amount. Safety, energy density, power density, cycle life in the many 10's of thousands, cheap to make, etc.

LiFePO4 simply has no reason to exist any longer. It's as dead of technology as your old 486 computer in your garage. It still works fine for what you did with it 10 years ago, but only a fool would move forward with a platform that is badly inferior in all ways to modern tech.

 

[liveforphysics]

To even get a datasheet for proper EV cells, first you have to first have a volume in the 10's of millions of dollars as your potential purchase price. Then a month of faxing forms back and forth between your legal departments over the stack of various NDA terms. Then they fly a team out to your location and you go through a series of presentations. Then your financial guys and program directors talk for a while and make sure things potentially could work between the companies. If it looks like there is the potential to do business, then and only then, the people on the battery engineering team (like myself) get to view the datasheets and cell technical data and samples.


Unfortunately, this is how it works for proper EV cells. It's all secret squirrel crap, and I've sat through it with over 10 vendors now... (because it's my profession to do it)