A123 AMP20M1HD-A Battery pack kit

agniusm said:
Update. If someone who bought a kit from me need replacement pins for balance connectors they are cheap on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-pcs-VH-...210?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae1310e7a
..and if soldering is not your first thing, here is the crimper:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SN-28B-Dupo...934?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19e099bc0e
If you need connector housings just do a search on 3.96mm on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odk...l1313.TR0.TRC0.X3.96mm+&_nkw=3.96mm+&_sacat=0

To further simplify they are called JST VHR connectors. digi-key has them, probably most will.

I will add some info later to easily upgrade your rev. 1 kits with better battery poles including bullet connectors, some copper, cutting, drilling, soldering involved :)
Click to expand...

Now that is what i call follow up service. Thanks, Agnius. I screwed up some of my traces on my first 6S so I used 22Ga silicone from a 6S balance cable and soldered washers to the ends. I then attached them to the 2.5 mm stainless screws on top of tha blocks, and it has worked well for about a year. JST XH is not as good as your connectors but it has worked well for me. The other 6S battery went fine. Learning curve. I do hope we can find more pouches at a reasonable price. $70 plus shipping is a bit much.
otherDoc
 
So here is terminal upgrade. i have done just one terminal to show. You will need copper flat bar 45-50mm wide, 3-4mm thick, ,5-1 hour of time :)
Cut two peaces 10mm wide:
20130829_161918.jpg

Clamp on existing terminal:
20130829_162032.jpg

Drill 3 holes and one the size of your bullet. 8mm being the largest you can fit (i think):
20130829_162150.jpg

Sand it down if needed and test your bullet (Mine is rough for time saving sake)
20130829_163406.jpg

20130829_165005.jpg

Tin underside of the terminal block if you are paranoid about corrosion. Solder the connector:
[youtube]3WAEGV0C30Y[/youtube]
Re-assemble:
20130829_165059.jpg

Result comparing the two:
20130829_165746.jpg

20130829_165838.jpg
 
Why would you ask before thinking for a second?
1. Bullet connectors are widely used on ebikes
2. Whats better conductivity, aluminum and brass using threads or copper + copper using solder?
3. Bit more tidy
 
agniusm said:
Why would you ask before thinking for a second?
1. Bullet connectors are widely used on ebikes
2. Whats better conductivity, aluminum and brass using threads or copper + copper using solder?
3. Bit more tidy
Click to expand...

To answer your question it is simply because I want to know your reasons. You call it an upgrade, so some people might wonder if this is a new feature or offering for any future kits you may sell.

Edit: You wrote below in the following post directly after this post...
agniusm said:
Please, avoid posting just for the sake of posting. There is no competition here who has more posts on the account.
Click to expand...

What high-horse do you ride? Why are you being condescending about this? I do NOT EVER post just for the sake of posting, nor do I childishly post in competition to boost the number of posts added to my account. BS. Cut the crap! Anyone that reads my posts will know I do NOT do that. My posts are much more detail oriented and longer to lend any evidence to what you suggest. Now you're being jerky with replies like that! I bought two 16s kits from you, but I do not appreciate your commentary falsely characterizing why I'm posting here. BS. :x
 
deVries said:
To answer your question it is simply because I want to know your reasons. You call it an upgrade, so some people might wonder if this is a new feature or offering for any future kits you may sell.
Click to expand...

agniusm said:
So here is terminal upgrade. i have done just one terminal to show. You will need copper flat bar 45-50mm wide, 3-4mm thick, ,5-1 hour of time :)
Cut two peaces 10mm wide:
Clamp on existing terminal:
Drill 3 holes and one the size of your bullet. 8mm being the largest you can fit (i think):
Sand it down if needed and test your bullet (Mine is rough for time saving sake)
Tin underside of the terminal block if you are paranoid about corrosion. Solder the connector:
Re-assemble
Click to expand...

Does this sounds like an offer or do it yourself tutorial? My reasons should not concern anyone! Please, avoid posting just for the sake of posting. There is no competition here who has more posts on the account
 
I'd be questioning the arrangement too, which is a healthy thing to do, wish i got more questioning/criticism :wink:

I'd like to see spaded power connections bolted straight onto the end blocks and then take off power leads, could have hobby connectors or whatever fitted, so the external circuit hook up arrangement, does'nt compromise the electrical/mechanical integrity of the main spaded connections.
Might be cool, if there was a right angled balance connector option, so balance leads and power connectors come out at right angles from the pack and the power leads could be tied down to the board, for even better integrity.
 
Hello guys, I must say thank you for this thread!
I was enjoying reading and watching videos how you built it!

I would like to build "A123 AMP20M1HD-A Battery pack kit", but I didn't saw from previous posts that such option exists - (I believe it's officially called 20s right? 20*3,7V=74V), 20Ah.
Also tried to search for "ONSpower" supplier of a123 on Alibaba site but cannot find it although a lot of producers of "amp20m1hd-a" exists on alibaba. If somebody can supply this a123 battery from within Europe to reduce shipping costs it would be great. If somebody else is interested in joining buying forces I am interested too.

What is recommended BMS and charger for such 20s option? Also if supplier is from Europe it would be great!

Currently I have existing BMS with charger and lifepo4 battery pack from Codd power and I am not satisfied - mostly it can deliver only 20A continuous. Short burst from this pack can go to 38A, but that's not enough for my hungry 3kW Crystalyte 5304 V2.
Current controller Lyen brand.

Stay well, and thanks for info
IMG_20131012_214015.jpg
 
Agniusm and others,
Interested in building a pouch-cell pack myself, so I was browsing your excellent build thread.
Kapton was mentioned above, which prompted me to research it further.
I've started a new thread questioning it's possible faults/limitations here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=54527
 
I have decided to share the content i had for making these kits. i have attached all the files to make what ever series pack. Includes these layouts: 3S1P, 4S, 6S, 12S, 16S, 18S, 24S, 30S, 32S. They are Sprint Layout files.
Also block files in autocad.
Bolts i use are M3 10mm DIN7984 stainless and M3 5mm DIN7984 stainless for standoffs which are 8mm long.
The connectors used are JST VHR connectors, 3.96mm and in 8, 6, 5, 4 way flavors.
 

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agniusm said:
2. Whats better conductivity, aluminum and brass using threads or copper + copper using solder?
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity.
Have you yet ( or ever intend to later ) test/quantify how much of a difference in conductivity this will make?
 
There is no need to go and waist time testing. Copper is 60% more conductive than best conductivity aluminium alloy. Those alloys are soft, hard to machine, let alone threading. So we are down to probably 46% conductivity of copper. Then there is thermal dissipation advantage. There is nothing better than copper at the moment. Graphene is in the labs, silver - expensive.
Here is aluminium alloy conductivity:
http://www.ndt-ed.org/GeneralResources/MaterialProperties/ET/Conductivity_Al.pdf
Here is a conductivity sheet for different materials:
http://www.ndt-ed.org/GeneralResources/MaterialProperties/ET/Conductivity_Misc.pdf
If you need to calculate throughoutput, use busbar calculator, I have a link on battery faq thread.
Btw all numbers in IAKS system for simplicity
 
agniusm said:
There is no need to go and waist time testing.
Click to expand...
Fair enough.
Note. Bellow Is not trying to convince anyone of anything , nor criticize anything nor anyone ... Just explaining myself a bit is all.

agniusm said:
Copper is 60% more conductive than best conductivity aluminium alloy.
Click to expand...
For an equal Volume, yes.

It varies of course for different Alloys , but Here is a crude example I got years ago.

By weight Aluminum is more electrically conductive. That's one of the reasons utility grids use it in the long high power runs. You can get a equal conductivity in a larger size and still be lighter, and cheaper.

Although it won't likely come into play in this DC battery application. The Preferential Magnetic structure of aluminum can make it nearly the same conductivity ( per volume ) in AC systems ( depending on the frequency of the AC ).
Link#1
Link#2

agniusm said:
Then there is thermal dissipation advantage.
Click to expand...

By equal volume yes.
But on a equal weight basis Aluminum is better for thermal dissipation as well. For a larger volume you can get the same thermal dissipation ability and still be lighter, and cheaper.

agniusm said:
Here is aluminium alloy conductivity:
http://www.ndt-ed.org/GeneralResources/MaterialProperties/ET/Conductivity_Al.pdf
Here is a conductivity sheet for different materials:
http://www.ndt-ed.org/GeneralResources/MaterialProperties/ET/Conductivity_Misc.pdf
If you need to calculate throughoutput, use busbar calculator, I have a link on battery faq thread.
Btw all numbers in IAKS system for simplicity
Click to expand...

Thanks.
 
Agreed on all, but size does matter here and for equal through-output you'd need twice as large bus bar. Space on such a small machine like bike is scarce and we try to make things as small as possible.
 
agniusm said:
Hi. Should fit. Here are 2 6s compared to panasonic pack with dimensions:http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=48370&hilit=panasonic&start=100
For all dimensions check first page of this thread
Click to expand...

thank you for the infos. Is this overall length with plate from the kit, or only the lenght of cell?

i would be happy if you can confirm this measurement please:

ied0.jpg


do i need cells with long or short deflectors for your kit?
no soldering necessary - only clamp with screws - right?

cheers
 
I think in real the cells are a bit shorter due to the folded foil around - or i am wrong with this?

225mm (cell) + 2mm + 14mm (kit) = 241mm -> will not fit in peli 1200 csae

it would be very nice if you could measure the pack length for comparison
 
Even if it would, battery terminals would need to be changed to something that fits inside the plates. Then you need some compression and some protection for pouches. I would better think of custom case from aluminium.
 
Have another one made, 24S but in 12S side by side arangement. Makes longer, thinner pack, about 90mm thick, 320mm long. Will update with files soon
 
has anyone tried these with the nissan leaf cells?
 
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