Hillhater
100 TW
extremegreenmachine said:
sales figures to date , just seems to prove how commercially non-viable they are !
a2b discontinued from best buy / Replaced by PiCycle
- Thread starter Green Machine
- Start date
sales figures to date , just seems to prove how commercially non-viable they are !
Green Machine
100 kW
SO an ebike buddy of mine just saw a picycle on the streets of sf and flagged him down and talked to the rider.
The guy was some kind of representative for picycle and had brochures etc. and a 500 dollar off coupon...so you can buy the bike from best buy or wherever for 2500 instead of 3k.
He says they will be in Best Buy shortly.
The guy claimed that best buy was having a big problem with their existing fleet of bikes, because people were buying them and they keep coming back to the store for return. Best Buy is frustrated to the point of not offering electric bikes anymore. I have heard this many many times from big stores with return policies such as costco. Every time costco sells an electric scooter and they have done it twice that i know of...with zappy and bladez...and with both products they were slammed with returns and in zap's case, there decision to go with costco was the beginning of the end.
The guy claimed best buy rather than completely quit on ebikes is giving Picycle a chance, which is promising to be a more durable and reliable bike for the common man....the guy claims that picycle is going to be the bike best buy focuses on selling, and they are going to phase out a number of bikes not just the a2b....
He also said that picycle was focusing on the "commuter market" and had purposely limited the bikes performance to keep it legal. So its a good thing they didnt focus on the performance diy crowd...because its obvious that picycle is not going to sale any cycles to the ES crowd...even i am not planning on buying one
The guy was some kind of representative for picycle and had brochures etc. and a 500 dollar off coupon...so you can buy the bike from best buy or wherever for 2500 instead of 3k.
He says they will be in Best Buy shortly.
The guy claimed that best buy was having a big problem with their existing fleet of bikes, because people were buying them and they keep coming back to the store for return. Best Buy is frustrated to the point of not offering electric bikes anymore. I have heard this many many times from big stores with return policies such as costco. Every time costco sells an electric scooter and they have done it twice that i know of...with zappy and bladez...and with both products they were slammed with returns and in zap's case, there decision to go with costco was the beginning of the end.
The guy claimed best buy rather than completely quit on ebikes is giving Picycle a chance, which is promising to be a more durable and reliable bike for the common man....the guy claims that picycle is going to be the bike best buy focuses on selling, and they are going to phase out a number of bikes not just the a2b....
He also said that picycle was focusing on the "commuter market" and had purposely limited the bikes performance to keep it legal. So its a good thing they didnt focus on the performance diy crowd...because its obvious that picycle is not going to sale any cycles to the ES crowd...even i am not planning on buying one
I remain interested in seeing how Picycle prices their developer's kit which is set to become available late in May. From responses to my inquiries I understand that the kit will include frame, seat mounting stanchion, bottom bracket mount, and front trailing link suspension fork mounted on a reinforced 1 5/8" steering tube that reduces for any standard 1 1/8" stem. Both front and rear dropouts have 135mm spacing so both can take a Crystalyte HS35 motor. The kits will come with dropout adapters that, I'm told, will accomodate most, if not all available rear hub motors in both the front and rear.
I'm a 260# retiree living in steep hill country without the motivation to devise and perform the type of continuous destructive testing on my equipment that LFP chronicles on his. I'm very tempted to use a dual motored 72V setup which should handle hills generating less individual motor stress and heat than a single motor setup.
I now agree with LFP that I don't want to load Headways into the frame -- largely because the curved cavity is too narrow to hold Headway's securely mounted in 2 by 2 spacer 4-cell blocks. It does, however, appear that I could load a pair of Lyen's 12 FET sensorless 72V 45A controllers with Regen into the frame. I've not yet seen the dimensions on the Crystalyte sensorless 72V 45A controller, so I have no idea if it would fit. It looks like I could mount either one or two CA's on the flat surface of what Pi calls the "dashboard". I'm told that the access to the inside of the frame is from the rear when the rear wheel isn't mounted.
I've determined that a 72V 16Ah Headway pack fits into a "Fat 50" surplus ammo box measuring 12" by 7" by 8.5" tall. If I can afford the batteries, a pair of ammo boxes totalling 72C 32Ah could be permanently clamped to either side of my cromo Tubus cargo rack that is rated for 88 pounds. The batteries could be locked into the ammo boxes with individual heavy duty locks through SST eyes mounted through their side opening mechanisms.
On the topic of theft protection, I'm also considering mounting a SST eye below the front bottom of the frame out of the way of the fork. This eye could have a chain or cable lock threaded through it. If I place another mounting device lower in the rear of the arch I could connect the two mounts with a metal I-channel to which I could securely mount bags and, perhaps even a battery pack. In any event, the open space is far less restrictive for stowage than the front triangle of my Gary Fisher hardtail. (Edit: I now see that the additional eye would be overkill since a chain can be placed through either or both the seat stanchion opening and the structural chainstay to frame to frame-integrated aluminum rear fender quasi-triangle and rear wheel)
One final thought: the bottom bracket mount doesn't appear to be capable of supporting a derailler. Use of Schlumpf 2.5 : 1 crankset switchable with a heel tap where the crank arm connects to the bottom bracket or a much less expensive Truvativ 1.6 :1 crankset would seem to be ideal.
I'm a 260# retiree living in steep hill country without the motivation to devise and perform the type of continuous destructive testing on my equipment that LFP chronicles on his. I'm very tempted to use a dual motored 72V setup which should handle hills generating less individual motor stress and heat than a single motor setup.
I now agree with LFP that I don't want to load Headways into the frame -- largely because the curved cavity is too narrow to hold Headway's securely mounted in 2 by 2 spacer 4-cell blocks. It does, however, appear that I could load a pair of Lyen's 12 FET sensorless 72V 45A controllers with Regen into the frame. I've not yet seen the dimensions on the Crystalyte sensorless 72V 45A controller, so I have no idea if it would fit. It looks like I could mount either one or two CA's on the flat surface of what Pi calls the "dashboard". I'm told that the access to the inside of the frame is from the rear when the rear wheel isn't mounted.
I've determined that a 72V 16Ah Headway pack fits into a "Fat 50" surplus ammo box measuring 12" by 7" by 8.5" tall. If I can afford the batteries, a pair of ammo boxes totalling 72C 32Ah could be permanently clamped to either side of my cromo Tubus cargo rack that is rated for 88 pounds. The batteries could be locked into the ammo boxes with individual heavy duty locks through SST eyes mounted through their side opening mechanisms.
On the topic of theft protection, I'm also considering mounting a SST eye below the front bottom of the frame out of the way of the fork. This eye could have a chain or cable lock threaded through it. If I place another mounting device lower in the rear of the arch I could connect the two mounts with a metal I-channel to which I could securely mount bags and, perhaps even a battery pack. In any event, the open space is far less restrictive for stowage than the front triangle of my Gary Fisher hardtail. (Edit: I now see that the additional eye would be overkill since a chain can be placed through either or both the seat stanchion opening and the structural chainstay to frame to frame-integrated aluminum rear fender quasi-triangle and rear wheel)
One final thought: the bottom bracket mount doesn't appear to be capable of supporting a derailler. Use of Schlumpf 2.5 : 1 crankset switchable with a heel tap where the crank arm connects to the bottom bracket or a much less expensive Truvativ 1.6 :1 crankset would seem to be ideal.
Green Machine
100 kW
Lemiux...
Wow your talking some new language.
Is picycles selling a kit to upgrade a stock pi?
Can you detail what you know about pi and this developer kit?
So they are going to allow you to install your own batteries? 72v??
Regarding anti-theft...i heard that the picycle has a radio device that communicates it where about to your iphone...is that just a future update or will be available immediatly?
You seem to know a lot about picycle...can you tell me some more?
I think its a fascinating product...what your says says this company is really far ahead of any ebike commercial company in giving the public what it needs and wants.
Wow your talking some new language.
Is picycles selling a kit to upgrade a stock pi?
Can you detail what you know about pi and this developer kit?
So they are going to allow you to install your own batteries? 72v??
Regarding anti-theft...i heard that the picycle has a radio device that communicates it where about to your iphone...is that just a future update or will be available immediatly?
You seem to know a lot about picycle...can you tell me some more?
I think its a fascinating product...what your says says this company is really far ahead of any ebike commercial company in giving the public what it needs and wants.
As I understand it, the developer kit is just as I described it: The frame plus enough proprietary parts (seat stanchion with seat tube, headset, fork, and axle adapters) to allow the buyer to build however he or she wishes.
The company hasn't yet quoted me a price, but appears to be willing to sell and ship these kits direct to all comers. They did say that they don't intend to advertise or list kits on their website out of a desire not to confuse the target buyer of a fully configured bike. They are small enough that they aren't set up to handle any significant component option sales. Their website does show available options including the gps anti-theft locator device. I believe this is only available with a complete bike.
This appears to be equivalent to Yuba Mundo's willingness to sell bare frames so people can customize their builds totally as they please. Most bike makers I've seen only offer stand alone high-end frames targeted at competitive weight weenies.
The company hasn't yet quoted me a price, but appears to be willing to sell and ship these kits direct to all comers. They did say that they don't intend to advertise or list kits on their website out of a desire not to confuse the target buyer of a fully configured bike. They are small enough that they aren't set up to handle any significant component option sales. Their website does show available options including the gps anti-theft locator device. I believe this is only available with a complete bike.
This appears to be equivalent to Yuba Mundo's willingness to sell bare frames so people can customize their builds totally as they please. Most bike makers I've seen only offer stand alone high-end frames targeted at competitive weight weenies.
Green Machine
100 kW
Will you please keep me posted on that? i would love a picycle frame to build like you said a 72 volt crystallite around...
Pi sent me these pictures of the Developer Kit Dropout Adapters that bolt onto the trailing link arm suspension of the Pi front fork. They also sent me the quoted info on the rear dropout adapters.
"The rear has interchangeable tabs to accommodate axle diameters ranging from 9mm to 12mm. And there’s sufficient surface area to go larger still (14mm) although this would be a permanent alteration. As you’ve surmised the front works differently. There are clamps located on a pivot point that secure the front axle. The clamping method nonetheless can accommodate axles in diameters ranging from 10mm to 12mm without needing permanent alteration. The front and rear axle spacing are identical at 135mm ID."
"The rear has interchangeable tabs to accommodate axle diameters ranging from 9mm to 12mm. And there’s sufficient surface area to go larger still (14mm) although this would be a permanent alteration. As you’ve surmised the front works differently. There are clamps located on a pivot point that secure the front axle. The clamping method nonetheless can accommodate axles in diameters ranging from 10mm to 12mm without needing permanent alteration. The front and rear axle spacing are identical at 135mm ID."
Gordo
100 kW
extremegreenmachine said:SO an ebike buddy of mine just saw a picycle on the streets of sf and flagged him down and talked to the rider.
The guy was some kind of representative for picycle and had brochures etc. and a 500 dollar off coupon...so you can buy the bike from best buy or wherever for 2500 instead of 3k.
He says they will be in Best Buy shortly.
The guy claimed that best buy was having a big problem with their existing fleet of bikes, because people were buying them and they keep coming back to the store for return. Best Buy is frustrated to the point of not offering electric bikes anymore. I have heard this many many times from big stores with return policies such as costco. Every time costco sells an electric scooter and they have done it twice that i know of...with zappy and bladez...and with both products they were slammed with returns and in zap's case, there decision to go with costco was the beginning of the end.
The guy claimed best buy rather than completely quit on ebikes is giving Picycle a chance, which is promising to be a more durable and reliable bike for the common man....the guy claims that picycle is going to be the bike best buy focuses on selling, and they are going to phase out a number of bikes not just the a2b....
He also said that picycle was focusing on the "commuter market" and had purposely limited the bikes performance to keep it legal. So its a good thing they didnt focus on the performance diy crowd...because its obvious that picycle is not going to sale any cycles to the ES crowd...even i am not planning on buying one
Neither Best Buy or Costco have a "problem" with return policy. That is not the marketing model they use. The supplier is the one who has the problem. The returns get dumped back on them. The problem and the cost is 100% born by the supplier. I do not know if this is the case with Walmart? Zap killed themself by subscribing to the "no questions asked" return policy. There are a lot of scumbag travelers who go to a city, buy a bike and ride it around for the summer, then return it for a full refund before going home. They proudly promote this behavior on travel blogs. Others purchase lawn care equipment, pressure washers etc and pull the same shit at the end of the season.
10 kW
MadRhino said:
I'll have to give you that one.
stanz
100 W
Did Ronald McDonald design this bike?
Hey if they can sell them, good for them. Personally I also prefer the Currie stealth concept. They look like bikes.
I'll bet Ed Begley Jr. already has one.
Hey if they can sell them, good for them. Personally I also prefer the Currie stealth concept. They look like bikes.
I'll bet Ed Begley Jr. already has one.
USAEBIKECO
10 kW
Just got done racing a guy with an A2B against my 48v electric mountain bike. We raced along lake michigan for about 5 miles.
Blew it away... Fun times.
Blew it away... Fun times.
Discussion of 4-wheel electric vehicles in the hill-climb thread moved me to respond with this. I've relocated the post to this thread at EGM's suggestion.
After Picycle responded to many of my inquiries about their developer kit's compatibility with various components, battery stowage issues and other add-ons, they sent me this in late April with a jpg.
'...been working on a quadricycle that someone just got behind with some money. The platform having four wheels and two pedaling positions (tandem) presents a lot of capacity for batteries, et al. Are you dead set on 2 wheels or would a comfortable recumbent tandem be of any interest. I ask because the battery and related packaging issues evaporate with this configuration."
I understand that Pi intends to market what this concept becomes in locations that will treat a 20 mph quadricycle version as a bicycle (good luck to them) and to offer a 35 mph version as a NEV. We non-target-market California seniors would, presumably, treat the device as a 30 mph motorized quadricycle legally driveable by senior citizens without haveing to register as a moped. (See discussion of California vehicle code section 407 in the Hill climb thread)
The conceptualized jpg raised the following questions from me that Pi hasn't yet answered.
1. How does one comfortably pedal given the very wide separation of pedals?
2. What size wheels do they intend to use?
3. Where are the pedals for the front position?
4. Isn't the raised theater seating position of the rear seat too close to the front seat?
5. Is the rear seat the Captain's seat or the Stoker's seat?
6. What will the steering device look like and where will it be located?![Pi_4_side__top_view_[2].jpg](https://endless-sphere.com/sphere/data/attachments/32/32545-cd42b065f05a3a0bcb067eaf6cf06e6d.jpg "Pi_4_side__top_view_[2].jpg")
7. Can they remove the very back of the rear fenders and extend a rubber support behind the rear seat so that the quadricycle can stand up on rear-end in the corner of a garage like some attractive recumbent trikes?
After Picycle responded to many of my inquiries about their developer kit's compatibility with various components, battery stowage issues and other add-ons, they sent me this in late April with a jpg.
'...been working on a quadricycle that someone just got behind with some money. The platform having four wheels and two pedaling positions (tandem) presents a lot of capacity for batteries, et al. Are you dead set on 2 wheels or would a comfortable recumbent tandem be of any interest. I ask because the battery and related packaging issues evaporate with this configuration."
I understand that Pi intends to market what this concept becomes in locations that will treat a 20 mph quadricycle version as a bicycle (good luck to them) and to offer a 35 mph version as a NEV. We non-target-market California seniors would, presumably, treat the device as a 30 mph motorized quadricycle legally driveable by senior citizens without haveing to register as a moped. (See discussion of California vehicle code section 407 in the Hill climb thread)
The conceptualized jpg raised the following questions from me that Pi hasn't yet answered.
1. How does one comfortably pedal given the very wide separation of pedals?
2. What size wheels do they intend to use?
3. Where are the pedals for the front position?
4. Isn't the raised theater seating position of the rear seat too close to the front seat?
5. Is the rear seat the Captain's seat or the Stoker's seat?
6. What will the steering device look like and where will it be located?
7. Can they remove the very back of the rear fenders and extend a rubber support behind the rear seat so that the quadricycle can stand up on rear-end in the corner of a garage like some attractive recumbent trikes?
Green Machine
100 kW
Lemlux,
Looks highly conceptual to me...like they arent even close to prototyping...looks like something they pull out to just wow investors...
Take a look at the ZEM tandem bike and see what you think of it...do a google search
I actually got one from my days of doing an ev store...i had 2 4 seaters and 1 2 seater...i still have one 2 seater...and it does stow up straight up on end.
Let me know if you are interested in it....never really liked tandems myself.
Is it a tandem you are trying to build?
I am not sure what PI offers in terms of a developers kit outside of their unique frame...all the other parts they seem to use are off the shelf.
Looks highly conceptual to me...like they arent even close to prototyping...looks like something they pull out to just wow investors...
Take a look at the ZEM tandem bike and see what you think of it...do a google search
I actually got one from my days of doing an ev store...i had 2 4 seaters and 1 2 seater...i still have one 2 seater...and it does stow up straight up on end.
Let me know if you are interested in it....never really liked tandems myself.
Is it a tandem you are trying to build?
I am not sure what PI offers in terms of a developers kit outside of their unique frame...all the other parts they seem to use are off the shelf.
Attachments
Agree that the distinctive Picycle frame and fork are the only proprietary elements to their developer's kit.
Also agree that the quadricyle drawing represents a very early conceptual stage.
I haven't targeted a tandem, but I do covet battery stowage space relatively close to the ground between the wheels. I've considered powering a long tail cargo bike or a Delta trike. A comfortable, relatively inexpensive but heavy Sun ez3 USX HD Delta could be quite interesting to power with upgraded gearing componentry including internal hub gears to get rid of the ground-hugging rear deraileur.
Side-by-side 4-wheel tandems and quads I've seen tend to be of the boringly slow tourist attraction rental variety. Side-by-side orientation seems suboptimally balanced for single rider use. The Zems seem to have been very pricy when new. Zems do appear to have had high end componentry and a relatively strong design. I like that each rider controlled his own shifting and cadence to separate rear wheels. Even so, a 10mph top end is what I read that users typically acheived
The weight distribution on the conceptual Pi tandem quadricycle along with stealth power train stowage potential might be interesting. I'm also curious how stowage could be removably arranged on and around the stoker seating position when in single person use.
Also agree that the quadricyle drawing represents a very early conceptual stage.
I haven't targeted a tandem, but I do covet battery stowage space relatively close to the ground between the wheels. I've considered powering a long tail cargo bike or a Delta trike. A comfortable, relatively inexpensive but heavy Sun ez3 USX HD Delta could be quite interesting to power with upgraded gearing componentry including internal hub gears to get rid of the ground-hugging rear deraileur.
Side-by-side 4-wheel tandems and quads I've seen tend to be of the boringly slow tourist attraction rental variety. Side-by-side orientation seems suboptimally balanced for single rider use. The Zems seem to have been very pricy when new. Zems do appear to have had high end componentry and a relatively strong design. I like that each rider controlled his own shifting and cadence to separate rear wheels. Even so, a 10mph top end is what I read that users typically acheived
The weight distribution on the conceptual Pi tandem quadricycle along with stealth power train stowage potential might be interesting. I'm also curious how stowage could be removably arranged on and around the stoker seating position when in single person use.
Green Machine
100 kW
10mph on flat ground on the zem sounds about right...
docnjoj
1 GW
Hey Lemlux! My wife rides that USX trike and loves it. An integrated rear gearbox would really be a great upgrade to the deraileur. Let me know when one is for sale. Thanks
otherDoc
otherDoc
docnoj
I've read many of your trike postings with great interest. I know you prefer bar end shifters on upright handles. It should be relatively easy to add a friction shifter for the front derailleur if one kept a 2 or 3 sprocket crank. I dream of a Nuvinci 360 with 18 t sprocket on the rear matched to a Schlumpf 2.5 : 1 crank with 155 mm crank arms and a 34 t sprocket. (Somehow my arthritic knees and hips scream out much more loudly when I pedal with legs raised on 170 mm crank arms than they do on my 29er with 175 mm crank arms.)
Any thoughts about how to deal with the additional friction at each end of the chain tube (top side in front and bottom side in back) that would occur if derailleur disappeared? I'm thinking that it might be remounted off the pivot point from an inch or so below the pivot point to an inch or so above.
I've read many of your trike postings with great interest. I know you prefer bar end shifters on upright handles. It should be relatively easy to add a friction shifter for the front derailleur if one kept a 2 or 3 sprocket crank. I dream of a Nuvinci 360 with 18 t sprocket on the rear matched to a Schlumpf 2.5 : 1 crank with 155 mm crank arms and a 34 t sprocket. (Somehow my arthritic knees and hips scream out much more loudly when I pedal with legs raised on 170 mm crank arms than they do on my 29er with 175 mm crank arms.)
Any thoughts about how to deal with the additional friction at each end of the chain tube (top side in front and bottom side in back) that would occur if derailleur disappeared? I'm thinking that it might be remounted off the pivot point from an inch or so below the pivot point to an inch or so above.
docnjoj
1 GW
I dont think topside pressure on the chain is a problem. Perhaps just a jocky wheel on the bottom to keep the chain from dragging? I would rather have a plain old 7 speed Shimano or SA for simplicity rather than the NuVinci. It would be great for her to be able to shift while stopped.Lemlux said:
docnoj:
Nuvinci just advised me that the 360 can only be mounted with axle support on both sides of the hub. Thus, its a non starter on the Sun Trike.
A lady at Utah Trikes did advise me that they were able to mount an 8-speed alfine on a Sun Delta although she couldn't recall if this was before or after Sun changed to a dual axle configuration.
Nuvinci just advised me that the 360 can only be mounted with axle support on both sides of the hub. Thus, its a non starter on the Sun Trike.
A lady at Utah Trikes did advise me that they were able to mount an 8-speed alfine on a Sun Delta although she couldn't recall if this was before or after Sun changed to a dual axle configuration.
docnjoj
1 GW
Lemlux said:
I just saw this post, Lemlux and the gearbox would have to be cantilevered like the current 7 speed cluster is now. The split axle and negative camber on the rear wheels really helps the stability, and that is why they did it. Too bad about the Alfine if it cant be done. The Nuvinci was a bit of overkill for her.
otherDoc
Rassy
1 MW
Concerning the chain tubes on the Sun USX trike, I removed them and put an idler where needed. I didn't like the tubes because they were noisy and there was no way they could be alligned for the different gears. My daughter in law has that trike now and loves it.
My son put 150mm cranks on it for her, with just one front sprokett, so he removed the front deraileur and shortened the chain so the rear shifting barely worked. This pulled the rear deraileur up quite a bit for better clearance.
She has a WE BD36 on the front wheel running from a 48V Ping.
My son put 150mm cranks on it for her, with just one front sprokett, so he removed the front deraileur and shortened the chain so the rear shifting barely worked. This pulled the rear deraileur up quite a bit for better clearance.
She has a WE BD36 on the front wheel running from a 48V Ping.
docnjoj
1 GW
Hey Rassy!
My wife loves her USX even with the front 9c. We try to ride fairly smooth roads so she hasn't had any rear deraileur clearance issues. I would still love to put even a 3 speed rear SA on there but the cantilever is a problem. Somehow gotta support that other end of the gearbox. Hmm..... maybe a small u-joint but it would then need limited slip? I dont know as the trike handles fine with the separate axles.
otherDoc
My wife loves her USX even with the front 9c. We try to ride fairly smooth roads so she hasn't had any rear deraileur clearance issues. I would still love to put even a 3 speed rear SA on there but the cantilever is a problem. Somehow gotta support that other end of the gearbox. Hmm..... maybe a small u-joint but it would then need limited slip? I dont know as the trike handles fine with the separate axles.
otherDoc
I see that Best Buy's web site now lists only one e-bike (a 24V Currie) which is shown as unavailable. A month ago 14 bikes were listed and the link shrunk in steps to 12, 11, and 9 that I saw. The emotorcycle page which used to show Brammo no longer has a valid link.
I don't know Pi's timetable and Pi still hasn't priced their developer's kit.
Pi does seem to be gearing up for volume production, though, as supported by this recently posted video of a new water jet cutter Pi intends to use for their arc body and head tube. I never realized that water jets were used for cutting metal.
http://vimeo.com/25283465
I don't know Pi's timetable and Pi still hasn't priced their developer's kit.
Pi does seem to be gearing up for volume production, though, as supported by this recently posted video of a new water jet cutter Pi intends to use for their arc body and head tube. I never realized that water jets were used for cutting metal.
http://vimeo.com/25283465
TylerDurden
100 GW
IIRC, waterjet is the preferred method for tool & die manufacturing.Lemlux said:
Pi emailed an update to interested parties today. Pi has now included regen as a standard feature. They claim to have 250 prepaid orders which Pi expects to ship over the next 3 to 4 months. I don't know if Best Buy is part of the 250 units, but Pi is still not shown on the Best Buy site.
The water jet is said to provide the physical capacity to make 1000 frames monthly when fully loaded.
Still no pricing on the developers' kit.
The water jet is said to provide the physical capacity to make 1000 frames monthly when fully loaded.
Still no pricing on the developers' kit.
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