About Cyclone VS GNG Gen 1&2

[caijunze]

Hello ! I just wanna to ask you guys (That had used cyclone and GNG ) the opinion or comment about these 2 company Cyclone and GNG motors performances
Anyone can help me answer this questions ?
Below the questions about :

-Motor Performance Cyclone vs GNG Gen 1&2 (It seems cyclone used other type of brush-less motor just like EGO does )?
-Mounted systems ?
-The Brush-less motor ?
-Controller (seems cyclone used a bit small controller than the GNG ) any differences( Performance , Amp) ?
-The top Speed and range at 48V 12 A battery?
-And the most important EFFICIENCY ?

Overall which one better ?

 

[flyinmonkie]

Some basics are as follows.

Cyclone:
The motor is a headline and is the same as the one used in the ego and aft kits. Motor has a planetary gear reduction attached. That makes it easier to gear down to pedal speed. It also adds gear noise, especially when over volted or run at high rpms. The motor is very solid if you get one with an external controller and replacement parts are cheap and easy to get. Ask Paco for shipping prices directly and don't believe what his website says, if you get them through cyclone.tw.

The supplied mount that clamps the frame is crap. Don't even think of using it. You are better to make your own. I think they are now providing a bottom bracket mount. It could be better, but I haven't heard anything about them.

The external controller seems to be fine, but is a difficult shape to mount, being more square than rectangle. The motors have been proven to work well with lyen's controllers and there are know wiring combinations that he can supply you.

I recommend it if you buy the motor from paco and make your own mounting bracket. Get a lyen controller, which is programmable and offers more flexibility in set up. There are great examples of diy mounts for the cyclone and levels of power it can take. Expect it to be noisy compared to a motor with no gear reduction.

GNG gen1:
Solid motor, no gear reduction so quiet. You need to have a stage of reduction before it goes to the pedals though. The stock setup leaves some to be desired and is inadequate if over powered. Best to swap the primary drive to chain and get a set of lightening rod's mounting sheets.

The controller seems to be pretty reliable and fairly easy to mod for more power, but not programmable.

More spinning bits, but a very quiet setup for a mid drive. The supplied bottom bracket and freewheel cranks aren't great for jumping or hard off road ridding. skyjunge seems to be having success with replacing his with the isis set up from cyclcone.

Would be good if you could get just the motor from GNG and source the rest separately like the cyclone, but you have to buy it as a kit. Fortunately the kit isn't overly expensive.

GNG gen2:
Motor has a gear reduction like the cyclone, so will be louder than the gne1, but not sure if it is as loud as a cyclone. People seem to be having good luck with this kit as it is a more simple set up than the gen1. It isn't as powerful though and not as upgradable as the gen1.

Seems to be one of the quickest easiest kits to install, but will have the same problem with the bottom bracket and freewheel cranks as the gen1. It will also be louder do to the reduction on the motor.

As for which is best... That all comes down to the type of ridding you will be doing; what you mechanical ability is; if you want the challenge and hobby of modding and or upgrading. Top speed and range will depend on the type of battery as well as the voltage and amp hours.

Hope this helps some.

Clay

 

[full-throttle]

Great summary!

 

[flyinmonkie]

Thanks F-T

 

[caijunze]

Thanks flyinmonkie ^^
About the summary of the mounting bracket you had explained well ^^
but for the the two company GNG vs Cyclone effiency and the motor performance (Powerful , maintenance , speed and Acceleration ) which one better ? ( any body already had the info or analyed ??)

Btw ... i had already bought Gen 1 & 2 ... IMPO Gen 2 had more silent and more efficient than the Gen 1 , about the mounted bracket ,Yes Gen 2 more friendly , easy to mount ^^

 

[flyinmonkie]

I'm not sure about the efficiency. Check the wiki, there is lots of info there now about specific motors. Someone with more electric technical knowledge will have to chime in here. I know power and acceleration will depend on battery chemistry, amps run (both battery and phase, which is a controller setting), and gearing used. Efficiency will depend on gearing and how you ride as far as how much you get out of a certain amount of amp hours as well as the efficiency of the motor.

Clay

 

[spinningmagnets]

The supplied [Cyclone] mount that clamps the frame is crap. Don't even think of using it. You are better to make your own

Take a look at AFT. They take an entire Cyclone kit, and then the only thing they change is the mounting bracket, to a very robust one of their design. Its pricey, but interesting that enough people buy it, that they can stay in business. Cyclone, do you even ride your own product?

Best bang for your buck upgrade is to buy the finned aluminum shell that clamps onto the motor, it doubles the heat-shedding ability.

 

[cheekybloke]

as spinning magnets says take a look at AFT they have a 2 stage oil conversion and ceramic bearing upgrade that greatly reduces noise and power consumption and also have just added a primary chain cover too.
i have had the AFT kit for a few weeks now,put 150 miles on it with no problems at all.no chain derailing either
very impressed with customer service aswell.
darren

 

[flyinmonkie]

I had a look at the cyclone site and they do now offer a bottom bracket mount as well. It is only 2 plates and doesn't look all that robust.

AFT has done some real nice upgrades to the headline motor and make a nice mounting bracket. It does come at a cost.

I agree with spinning, the cooling fins are a must for the headline motor.

cajunze... Interesting that you find the GNG gen 2 quieter then the gen 1. I wouldn't have guessed that. Someone needs to tear a gen 2 apart so we can see what the reduction looks like.

Clay

 

[TRRRR]

Regarding the cyclone BB mounts - I have had nothing but trouble with the chain tensioner. the one that came with the kit broke after about 10 minutes of riding. The jocky wheel must be the cheapest on the planet and the plastic broke apart. I replaced this with a shimano one off an old bike then the flimsy aluminium bar holding the jocky wheel broke. in the end I had to mount a guide wheel without tensioner spring to the aluminium plates of the BB mount. So far so good with this modification but the mount is more trouble than its worth - in my case at least. For my new bike I have bought an AFT mount but have not installed yet.

(and my motor is power limitted to 400 W so I am not even giving the cyclone bb mount a workout)

 

[TRRRR]

I am considering buying the cooling fins for the headline motor from AFT. The thing I am not sure about is whether I will need them for my motor. I am going to use the cycle analyst and 5k potentiometer to have an adjustable power limit and probably the highest power I will go to will be 1000W for the big hill that is on my daily commute. If I keep the motor at an efficient rpm do you think I will need the cooling fins?

 

[spinningmagnets]

In that situation, you will probably not "need" them. One benefit of these kits is they have a temp sensor from the factory that cuts power when the motor starts getting hot. When you get to the top of your steepest and longest hill, stop and feel the motor. If you can't hold your hand on it, the fins will help it survive. A motor that is just warm on a cool day, might get really hot on a summer day.

Hopefully your motor has the temp sensor, and it works properly.

 

[TRRRR]

Thanks for the reply. Are the fins in your picture the ones you are recommending? Cyclone supplies them as well as AFT. AFT also supplies a more heavy duty variety

 

[jk1]

How loud are the GNG V1 and V2 kits, their seems to be some different opinions on which one is louder V1 or V2?

And then how do these compare to the stock cyclone kit with grease in the gearbox ? and then compared to improved AFT kit with ceramic bearings and oil in the gearbox ?

Has anyone taken measurements in some way to compare ?

 

[cheekybloke]

Regarding the cyclone BB mounts - I have had nothing but trouble with the chain tensioner. the one that came with the kit broke after about 10 minutes of riding. The jocky wheel must be the cheapest on the planet and the plastic broke apart. I replaced this with a shimano one off an old bike then the flimsy aluminium bar holding the jocky wheel broke. in the end I had to mount a guide wheel without tensioner spring to the aluminium plates of the BB mount. So far so good with this modification but the mount is more trouble than its worth - in my case at least. For my new bike I have bought an AFT mount but have not installed yet.

(and my motor is power limitted to 400 W so I am not even giving the cyclone bb mount a workout)

AFT have just designed a new mount that has an anti chain suck device built in as i had chain suck issues when the drive train was new and tight.i mentioned it to jim at AFT and the week after he had designed a new mount .

 

[caijunze]

I just looked the XING's , AFT's and EGO's product ... its seems all used the cyclone Base Technology ~~
Hmm I a bit curious ... the efficiency , i just ask Paco about the Efficiency , he said that 85 % ~~ 48V 11.5 A range 35KM , Is it True ?
anyone got analyzed yet ? flyinmonkie told me to check at Wiki and google ,but i cant find it ?

BTW spinningmagnets i think u hv the information quite well ^^

Thanks ~

 

[kentlim26]

cyclone draws around 11w ~ 14.5w per Km. It is quite similar like a 48v 1000w hUb motor . My goal is also similar like your , a target range is 35km. is best to have 20amps 14cells. if you want to run with 15amps only (you got to watch your volts while reaching 30km above )

my next build for my battery pack, I will try to squeeze my pocket to run 20amps at least.

 

[kriskros]

two points..controller... i got mine from Lyen..he matched the wiring and it is programable....fins.. NECESSARY... i run 441/2v 20amp lipo.. withouy the heating fins the motor gets too HOT to touch..with fins..very WARM.. also ,the chain tensioner i got from cyclone is all metal.no problems

 

[flyinmonkie]

Here is a link to the wiki.

http://www.endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/EBike_Motors_Middrive

There are specs for the GNG gen 1 there, but I don't see specs for the others. I didn't look very hard though.

Clay

 

[boostjuice]

I just looked the XING's , AFT's and EGO's product ... its seems all used the cyclone Base Technology ~~
Hmm I a bit curious ... the efficiency , i just ask Paco about the Efficiency , he said that 85 % ~~ 48V 11.5 A range 35KM , Is it True ?
anyone got analyzed yet ? flyinmonkie told me to check at Wiki and google ,but i cant find it ?

BTW spinningmagnets i think u hv the information quite well ^^

Thanks ~

According to the dyno plot published on the Cyclone website The 'Headline-Motor' planetary geared units peak at around 90% efficiency, which I tend to believe through personal experience using them. But of course that is at a very narrow peak. They will hold over 85% efficiency between 2000>3000RPM @24VDC and ~3500>5500RPM @48VDC. Quite impressive for such a cheap and power-dense little motor, and the narrow efficiency band is completely acceptable for a mid-drive setup where you can keep it in the sweet-zone through diligent gear selection.

(FYI: although the below dyno plot indicates it is for the '500W' motor rather than '650W/1200W', both types in fact both use the same core. The difference is that the '650W/1200W' motors use the external controller rather than the internal controller of the 500W. The '650W' dyno plot shown on the Cyclone website is in fact for a different type of motor no longer available - NOT the planetary geared motor run with an external controller.)

 

[TRRRR]

In that plot does Wo = Watts output and Win = Watts input? With my headline motor I am not seeing the big power drop at high RPM if this is the case. I see the power input (via cycle analyst) stay fairly constant until near the maximum RPM.

 

[letsgoharry]

Hi guys
I am new to this and have a favor to ask:

Can you PLEASE ad link's to what you mention.
It will be more easy for us :? newbys to follow your explenation. Thanks!
Exemple>
Take a look at AFT;
ask Paco;
And all the companys/ products you speak abouth
Thanks!
Harry

 

[spinningmagnets]

The four biggest AFT kit threads:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=48110#p708019

 

[skyungjae]

I trail ride regularly where there are often runners/joggers/pretend joggers, hikers, dog walkers, horses, etc. Nobody has once taken notice of my GNG Gen1 based off sound. I get the occasional "what is that?" from onlookers when I'm with my friends at the top of a hill waiting for them to catch their breath, but no head turns from sound.

It also helps that I don't ride like an a$$hat passing people at unreasonable speeds.

 

[wayover13]

Glad I found this thread since, after looking at the GNG kits, I recently discovered Cyclone kits, and was also, like the TS, wondering how they compare. I really think I want to go with a mid-drive when I upgrade one of my recumbent tandems, so I'm gravitating toward these kits. I see the GNG kits tend to be rated at 36 or 48 volts, while the Cyclone kits are rated for 24 volts. So, what are the voltage limitations of these Cyclone 24 volts kits? Would I want to opt for a 36 volt battery if I were to get one of these?