Active heatsink for cyclone motors. 5000w continuously.

C

chupa

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Sep 15, 2013
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Hi all.
I finished the project of the active cooling system for a cyclone.
Idea is very simple. In a cover of the motor i drilled 8 holes with a 9mm diameter . On top the motor i cut the window 15х35mm. In this window i fasten the air duct tube .
I used the powerful centrifugal fan of 40 watts. Tests showed that the fan size can be reduced to 50х70mm but fan should be centrifugal only .
Now I can receive 5 kilowatts of electric power from the motor for a long time.
It works! Probably my decision is useful for other middrives solutions.

centrifugal fan is here:
1305009267.jpg

http://db.sanyodenki.co.jp/product_db_e/coolingfan../bloorfan/dc_fan_detail.php?master_id=2881


Sorry , but i have only one shot.
0_df7b2_519bde88_XXL.jpg


Cover for fan in 3D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kFEslIoF_I
 
why not use a 2000W hoover motor to cool your 5000W motor? At least half of it will be heat in the end anyway ;)

seriously, why not simply use a bigger heatsink? wouldn't it do the same, without any additional power seeking for the same weight penalty?
 
Read my post attentively. I use the fan of 40 watts. It is superfluous. I reduce fan speed. Now the fan consume 10 watt.

Cyclone efficiency at a power 5000w about 75%. Heatsink system need quickly to lead out heat 750w. Any passive heat sink attached to an external wall of the stator isn't capable to cool the motor with power more than 3000w.
Also exists a problem of fast heating of a rotor and magnets above Curie point (80 degrees). To hold temperature in the motor lower than 80 degrees need a air stream or water inside motor.. I tried huge heat sinks. They weren't effective and I couldn't receive from a cyclone power more 2000w for a long time.
Weight of the active cooling system approx 200 grams.
To Effectively lead out heat 750w from the small area of the small motor, need the massive copper heat sink of weight 2-3 kilograms.
 
crossbreak said:
if 1250W turn into heat, then another 10W dont really matter I agree. Where did you get the info that this small motor can be so amazingly efficient at this amazing power level?
Click to expand...

I burned two engine (burned coils or rotor overheat more than Curi point) before get 5 kw.
My 3-th engine is working normally ( 2 month in extreme enduro driving) with this fan heatsink. But in high power you should harden reducer gearwheels. I hardened satellites and sun gears.
Sorry , but i do not know how be "hardened" or "tempered" in english when heat up detail to a red glow and then drop to water..
 
Tempered is the right word.

I like it :) It's amazing how quickly a motor will de-rate if you can't shed that heat. The motor is still running at the same inefficiency it always was, except you're better able use the power that's left for motion. And not have it burn up before your battery crashes :)
 
chupa said:
Read my post attentively. I use the fan of 40 watts. It is superfluous. I reduce fan speed. Now the fan consume 10 watt.

Cyclone efficiency at a power 5000w about 75%. Heatsink system needs quickly to lead out heat 750w. Any passive heat sink attached to an external wall of the stator isn't capable to cool the motor with power more than 3000w.
Click to expand...

Whilst I really like the design and implementation of this cooling modification, I simply cant believe these figures. These motors magnetically saturate long before 5000W, so no way is efficiency at 75% at this level of power input.

It is however absolutely true that external heat-sinks are largely a waste of time with these motors as all thermal transfer from the coils to the casing must pass through the trapped air within the case (a plastic coil/stator frame ensures this), essentially meaning that the magnet temperature is easily much hotter than the case temperature in standard trim due to the poor thermal conductivity of air creating a large DeltaT.

So yes, I do believe this fan modification can raise the continuous power output of these motors a worthwhile amount, however I don't think it will do much for peak power bursts compared with a standard unmodified motor used at low-duty.

Also, hardening the planet gears is a definite worthy measure for these motors running more than about 25~30A, as the torque loading beyond this level will deform the teeth profile long before wearing out due to poor lubrication (if the grease>oil conversion mod isn't done).

BTW, the sun 'gear' (simply teeth machined onto the stator shaft) is already case-hardened from the factory, so I'm not sure why it is mentioned to harden this as well?
 
A good ducted fan can do wonders for a motors continuous power handling. A continuous power improvement of 3-4x wouldn't shock me to see. Nice job!
 
Hi all.

I finished my project.

Results here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjwfUUAUYJw

Shortly:
I made PID regulator for cooler. Thermo sensor AD22100STZ build in motor. Controller - microchip 12F675
FAN power consumption :
If engine heat >55deg (celsium) = 25watt
45deg. = 12 watt
30deg= 2 watt

Reduction heat from 70deg. to 40deg. at 40sec.
Fan weight 200 gramm

Now i have 4000w on cyclone motor continuously.
 
Hi all.

My cyclone 5000w in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvMofekRyrU

For the English audience: I speak in Russian. I don't tell about technical details of this bicycle during a driving. Simply small talk during driving.
 
What controller are you using ? is the the KSB48101L to get 5000w ?

Do you have a dyno so you can see how much power power is at the wheels from 2000w to 5000w input ? what is the output power ?
 
Gab said:
What controller are you using ? is the the KSB48101L to get 5000w ?

Do you have a dyno so you can see how much power power is at the wheels from 2000w to 5000w input ? what is the output power ?
Click to expand...


Now I use Adaptto mini-e controller. (This is a Russian controller)
But my previous controller is kbs 48121L directly from kelly store.

I have not dyno... :-(
But I can estimate mechanical power on current consumption at a speed 60kph.
For 60kph my system eat approx 1900-2100watt from battery and this depend from weather condition and temperature.
 
Nice build!

I have a new Cyclone 3000W engine that overheated after a few minutes of use. I think this would be a great solution. But one thought, what happens if you run in rain or down a mud hole? Will the engine survive water inside?
 
hi all i did the all mods. but i add a few mods crazy tank drive did not. add piant inside motor , seal . the halls and pvc broad for water. it dose help alot fan cooling you don't really a heat sink do this mod. :)
 
Adaptto, Rohloff, Cyclone 5kW, PID, active cooling, custom made 3d printed motormount incl. heat channels.
HOLY SHIT!! this is an awesome build, sir!

edit:
some questions...
1. did you reinforce the motormount with metal washers inside?
in order to be strong enough to tighten the screws.
2. did you spraypaint the motormount or is that the printed surface?
3. ABS filament?
 
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