Advice for newbie building on an EEB frame

[brickwall]

Hi!

I made my first e-bike last year and have grown really fond of both riding it and the building process itself, so I'm about to start over. The last one, an Electra Straight 8, became an e-bike as an afterthought when I got a kit from EM3EV, having originally bought the bike for use as a standard bicycle. So naturally, there are some details I don't like about it.

I'm going to start over and build from scratch this time using the EEB frame from EM3EV, but I'm going to keep the battery. It's a 17.3 Ah 20R lithium triangle pack. I would like some advice from you experts on how you think this will perform with a 1000W upgrade Mac motor. I've had very good experiences dealing with EM3EV and they've given me excellent service and advice, so I feel very confident buying from them again, but I just want to hear what you guys think.

This is what I've decided on so far:


With the BBS02 kit I got for my first bike, everything was very easy to set up, but I'm not as confident this time around with the Mac motor and the Cycle Analyst. Is it hard to set up?

Any ideas are welcome.

 

[migueralliart]

My 2 cents...

I would not go with a MAC motor with this frame. It seems all the vector,eeb frames being built in this forum are going with MC rims and a MXUS V3 or QS motor. The logic is that the frame is somewhat heavy and any weight you save with the motor will be negligible in the end since by the time you add the big capacity battery, frame and suspension components then you might as well go with a higher power motor.

I'm building one myself and you can source these motors from kinaye and powervelocity.com. If you're going fast a MC rim is your best bet.

PS. You can also get that frame from enduroebike.com, powervelocity and even ebay (item 111879110737).

Good luck with your build.

 

[brickwall]

That price includes suspension and a lot of other components too. The frame itself is just $449.

My battery is rated for 2 kW at 50V and 40A continuous, while the Mac is rated for only 1kW, but EM3EV seems to suggest they can deal with that much power:

My advice would be to get the Mac if you don’t think you will want much more than 2000W max (2000W on a Mac feels pretty strong) and maybe 30mph (50km/h) or a little more maybe. If you will likely want more later, get a bigger DD motor (TC40 or something similar, from another supplier), then you have more options at a later date.

They also sell that Crystalyte motor. Do you think it would be better to go for that?

 

[migueralliart]

If all you're gonna push thru is 40a at 48v then the mac makes sense but it depends on the amount of hills you have and cruising speed. Use the simulator and the actual weight and see if the bmc (torque or speed) will overheat or not.

I like the frame but I'm going a bit more heavy duty with it so I'm going with a big Dd hub.

 

[brickwall]

So here's my line of thought, basically:

 I've already got the battery
 I've found the BBS02 to be really powerful at 0.75 kW, and the Mac would be even more so
 I'm in the EU, where all kinds of e-bikes with throttles are illegal—they can only have PAS and 0.25 kW max, so I'm already in trouble and would rather not push it
 I could always upgrade at a later date, which is why I'm going for heavy duty mechanical parts this time around

I understand that the Mac is wimpy compared to many other bikes on this forum though. It's rated for 1kW but EM3EV seems to suggest it can easily do 2kW too. What do you think?

 

[migueralliart]

If that's the case then the MAC would be a good choice but the frame is not really hiding anything even on 26" rims it screams high power ebike as it resembles a MC build.

To me what you're doing is buying a mustang with ALL the extras but with a 2.3 ecoboost engine (in american terms).

 

[brickwall]

Lol. It'd still be a massive upgrade in terms of power than what I've currently got. At least according to the specs, but a mid-drive is very torque-y which the Mac may not be.

In any case, I took a chance and put the bike up for sale and I've might have found a buyer. Then I'll start with nothing, which means I can get a 72V battery and a Crystalyte motor. Exciting times.

 

[cell_man]

You should try to find somewhere else to buy from (for no less money, or likely more money), not us, after all, as you said you had good experience and service etc from em3ev

IMPO the Mac is gonna be fine on the frame if you want a brisk and fairly lightweight setup. It's not gonna be as powerful as a 5kw dd setup, but a 2kw Mac setup will feel just as good as a big DD, running a similar power level, if anything the Mac feels more punchy and torquey than a dd, assuming they are running a moderate power level. We do also stock some big crystalyte motors if you want more and will be stocking the MXUS V3 soon too. That 20r triangle pack easily delivers bursts of way more than 40a, it's bms limited, but that bms easily provides 60 or 70a for extended periods without trouble.
By the way, the 750w bbs02 is 750w rated output (max input is around 1200w), and I suggested 2000w max input power on the Mac kit, so you aren't comparing like with like. Middle motors make very good use of the power when the gears are used properly. Don't expect the Mac to feel much more powerful than the bbs02, it won't, but it is ultimately more powerful and should feel stronger as the speeds get higher.
Thanks
cell man, aka Paul EM3ev

 

[brickwall]

You should try to find somewhere else to buy from (for no less money, or likely more money), not us, after all, as you said you had good experience and service etc from em3ev

I'm not sure I understand. Are you suggesting I should buy from someone else? Or are you suggesting the opposite? I'm confused.

IMPO the Mac is gonna be fine on the frame if you want a brisk and fairly lightweight setup. It's not gonna be as powerful as a 5kw dd setup, but a 2kw Mac setup will feel just as good as a big DD, running a similar power level, if anything the Mac feels more punchy and torquey than a dd, assuming they are running a moderate power level. We do also stock some big crystalyte motors if you want more and will be stocking the MXUS V3 soon too. That 20r triangle pack easily delivers bursts of way more than 40a, it's bms limited, but that bms easily provides 60 or 70a for extended periods without trouble.

Would I be able to use my existing 50V 20r pack with the Crystalyte or MXUS V3 to great effect? And when's the latter in stock?

I am not dead set on the Mac motor. Of course I'd rather not get a new battery, but I realize I might have to if I want to go for more power. I'm trying to figure out which motor to go for and if the Mac is the one that performs best with my 50V pack, as was suggested in an e-mail, then I'd probably get that to avoid getting a new pack so soon.

Middle motors make very good use of the power when the gears are used properly. Don't expect the Mac to feel much more powerful than the bbs02, it won't, but it is ultimately more powerful and should feel stronger as the speeds get higher.

Gotcha. That was what I was trying to say. The BBS02 is very punchy in my setup and I don't really need more torque or a higher top speed. But if I get to choose just buy selecting a different motor, then of course I'll take the better one.

 

[toxictoad]

Hey, would the BBS02 fit on the Electra Straight 8? Or did you go for a hub motor?

 

[brickwall]

Hey, would the BBS02 fit on the Electra Straight 8? Or did you go for a hub motor?

Yes, the BBS02 fits very nicely! I wanted to keep the red spokes but lost the rear brake by fitting a mid-drive, so I really should have replaced the hub anyway.

 

[toxictoad]

Cool, I imagine it would be a nice setup. I use the BBS02 500w 36v and on my bike and it goes fast but because of laws I (try) to take it easy and in low pedal assist, it's a nice relaxed ride so on the Straight 8...
Why did you lose the rear brake?

 

[brickwall]

Because it's a coaster brake which can't be used because of the freewheel in the Bafang.

 

[toxictoad]

What did you do about a rear brake?

 

[brickwall]

What did you do about a rear brake?

Building a new bike :lol:

 

[Samd]

Sub'd

 

[brickwall]

So after talking with a few others and reading some more, I've decided to go for the MXUS V3 instead of the Crown because it's more modern and even cheaper.

I've also noticed that you can buy Vector frames. I haven't decided yet which to use, but since Vector is based in Europe, the $699 their asking for it is about the same as an EEB with shipping, perhaps even cheaper depending on the import charges.

 

[Dumsterdave]

did you end up going with the vector?
im looking for a frame to mount a mxus 3k v3 too.
I was originally going to go with the EEB, but being in Denmark, the shipping and import taxes would be too high.

 

[brickwall]

I got the EEB frame actually. Some say it's an improvement over the Vector, while others say it's a ripoff. It's hard to tell what's what, but it does have a wider battery compartment in which I'll be able to fit 4 kWh of power.

I ended up getting the EEB because there's little to no information about the Vector, and because I like doing business with EM3ev.

 

[Dumsterdave]

Yeah, I have yet to deal with em3ev, but i have heard nothing but good reviews about them. I am just worried about paying up to 100% of the cost of the EEB just to have the frame pass through customs. I have been screwed over a few times when ordering outside the EU.

 

[brickwall]

Shipping was expensive as you'd expect for something as heavy, but import charges wasn't more than $50 or so because they wrote down a fake value on the box.

 

[Dumsterdave]

fedt. did you end up assembling the bike yet? im curious how you feel about it. What hub did you end up with? the mac? what size tires? battery?

 

[brickwall]

fedt. did you end up assembling the bike yet? im curious how you feel about it. What hub did you end up with? the mac? what size tires? battery?

I've put the front fork on, a DNM USD-8, a saddle, pedals and the handlebars, but all the fun pieces are still missing. I ended up going for a MXUS V3 in 24" rims and Maxxis Holly Rollers. Samd was kind enough to lace the motor and provide a matching front wheel, and I think they should get here by tomorrow. Very excite!!!

As for battery, it's also in progress. I got in touch with Damian at EVMadrid, who is designing a custom battery to utilize the space as efficiently as possible. It'll be around 2 kWh now, with the option to double that in the future.

So it's obviously too early to say what I think about the bike, but I really like the frame, once I had stuck some nice components on it.

 

[Dumsterdave]

fedt. did you end up assembling the bike yet? im curious how you feel about it. What hub did you end up with? the mac? what size tires? battery?

I've put the front fork on, a DNM USD-8, a saddle, pedals and the handlebars, but all the fun pieces are still missing. I ended up going for a MXUS V3 in 24" rims and Maxxis Holly Rollers. Samd was kind enough to lace the motor and provide a matching front wheel, and I think they should get here by tomorrow. Very excite!!!

As for battery, it's also in progress. I got in touch with Damian at EVMadrid, who is designing a custom battery to utilize the space as efficiently as possible. It'll be around 2 kWh now, with the option to double that in the future.

So it's obviously too early to say what I think about the bike, but I really like the frame, once I had stuck some nice components on it.

sounds great! Im looking to build a very similar bike. With the mxus v3 3T on a 17" moto rim.
What kind of price did you get from EVMadrid for the custom battery?