Advice on Cyclone kits

[Richard1174]

Hi guys

I am considering my next e bike project. My bike at the moment is a 26 wheel mountain bike and a 250w 36v front hub motor kit I bought off ebay and it has been up and running for 3 weeks now and I am quite pleased with it overall and have used it every day for commuting to work with no technical issues apart from tightning a few spokes in the front hub wheel.

I now want to either modify this bike for more performance or fit a completly new kit and fit the existing one to my partners bike so she can enjoy e bikes aswell. I initially thought I would just go for a bigger hub motor and better speed controller probably a crystalite setup but I started to look at the cyclone kits which look really interesting, I was considering the 500w kit. Just really wanted to know if anyone has been using one for a long period of time for regular commuting and if they have suffered from any reliabilty issues as hub motors seem to be the most simple and reliable system from a mechanical perspective. Also are the performance figures they quote as good as they claim, they appear to quote pretty good speed figures for a 500w system on 24v. Is it possible to overvolt the 500w kit for more performance to say 36v as I understand it has a built in controller. I also understand that fitting a cyclone kit is more of an engineering project than a hub motor kit which is ok as I have access to a machine shop if required.

I guess I have probably started a hot topic as there are probably guys who love cyclone setups and others who love hub motors but as I am still new to the e bike scene I value gaining as much information from everyone as possible before I make a decision.

 

[Anonymous]

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[Richard1174]

Its a bafang motor and speed controller is rated at 12 amps. This was my other consideration to get some more batteries (48 to 60v ), a much better speed controller and a cycle analist so I can monitor whats going on.

 

[Anonymous]

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[Richard1174]

Your dead right on the old led battery meter mine still shows full up after an hour of riding at 18mph average up and down hills and its only a 10amp battery, either I have the most efficient motor in the world or it thinks full volts is at around 28v. One day I expect it to just drop like a stone and I will be left peddalling the thing all the way home.

 

[deardancer3]

I have both cyclone and hub motor ebikes.

Cyclone and most mid drives are (argueably) better at being able to stay on the sweet spot of the motors efficiency and power curves. This is important if you have a demanding load due to rider, terrain or cargo. If you are a big guy with a large frontal area in a hiily area carrying significant cargo, you need some significant power to the wheel. If this is done inefficently, then you have to carry some big amp hour batteries or suffer shortened range.

That being said, MANY people do not like the several downsides of the mid drives, which in no particular order, a few are -- more noise, more installation hassle on many bikes, some additional mechanical complexities which always means decreased reliability, and for sure increased chain wear.

Wife does not have these demands so she rides a hub motor, is very happy with the power and reliabilty, and she does not need the range i need. When it is a significant trip, she takes a charger with her.

If one is careful with selecting the right bike for a mid drive, the installation and reliabilty of the system is much better. Even then, there is a bit more of the decision making on how to mount one. Not much challenge to me as I have lots of decades of Electronics work, and have been fabricating some aluminum parts (on a very small scale) for a few years.

I am supportive of both types of installations. If your application is demanding, you have some expertise with using metal working tools, and can pick out a bike, then mid drive is for you.

If your application is not that tough, you do not want to have a new hobby of dealing with power tools, and arleady have a nice DF that would take the hub motor well, then go for the hub motor.

Hope this helps.

d

 

[MitchJi]

I have both cyclone and hub motor ebikes.

Cyclone and most mid drives are (argueably) better at being able to stay on the sweet spot of the motors efficiency and power curves. This is important if you have a demanding load due to rider, terrain or cargo. If you are a big guy with a large frontal area in a hiily area carrying significant cargo, you need some significant power to the wheel. If this is done inefficiently, then you have to carry some big amp hour batteries or suffer shortened range.

That being said, MANY people do not like the several downsides of the mid drives, which in no particular order, a few are -- more noise, more installation hassle on many bikes, some additional mechanical complexities which always means decreased reliability, and for sure increased chain wear.

If one is careful with selecting the right bike for a mid drive, the installation and reliabilty of the system is much better. Even then, there is a bit more of the decision making on how to mount one. Not much challenge to me as I have lots of decades of Electronics work, and have been fabricating some aluminum parts (on a very small scale) for a few years.

I am supportive of both types of installations. If your application is demanding, you have some expertise with using metal working tools, and can pick out a bike, then mid drive is for you.

Hope this helps.

d

Hi,

Would you please expand on selection of the right bike for mid drive?

I would like to build an Ebike with a Crank drive so the motor takes advantage of the gears and use a SRAM 9 speed (or maybe a Rohlof or Nuvinci) rear hub and get rid of the derailers altogether. I think one of the advantages should be increased reliability. Replacing the entire derailer system with a geared hub should more than offset any issues with a high quality crank drive system. I'm not sure the best way to do it.

I am not enthusiastic about the Cyclone Kits and components because:
1. I'm not sure it can be geared properly in relation to rider cadence. Optibike says with a Pedal Cadence of 80 the motor will be in or near its optimum range. I don't know if the Cyclone can be dialed in this well.

2. I don't think the quality of the Cyclone Components is very good.

3. I don't like the motor location below the crank.

 

[deardancer3]

Would you please expand on selection of the right bike for mid drive?

Standard diamond frames are OUT for most of the current mid drives. The discontinued crank forward Raleigh Gruv, which I have, was a good begining mid drive platform.... There was just enough space for the motor to be installed and if you used 165 crank arms, your feet never hit the motor. this was a seriously crank forward frame. A Electra Townie could also have the same advantages for a crank forward DF.

Then move to semi-recumbents like the also discontinued Giant REvive, and the current DAY 6 platforms. There are other decent semi bents from Sun, Rans and others. Lots of room to put the motor between the crank and rear wheel. and the human comfort issues along with the e-assist make for a fine ebike. to get the full range of gearing from human and from the motor, SRAM DD is highly suggested.

Now if you want to mount the motor to drive THRU a triple crankset and use those gears, I am not the guy to ask this.... others have done this and I have not. they have done this it seems fairly often on full recumbents, and done it pretty well.

That is about cyclones and cylone based mid drives, there are several. I am suppportive of the different mid/chain drives.

Getting the right distance of chainline minimizes the problem of motor chainline misalingment and can actually become a solution to some chainline issues of bouncing, sagging, routing etc.

So that is my two watts worth on cyclone/mid drive platform selection. It is doubtful that everyone will agree with all I have said, but, the majority will agree with most of this.

d

 

[lawsonuw]

Just to add to what Deardancer3 has said. Chopper or cruiser style bikes often have a nice long chain line for a mid drive. And of course, most full recumbents also have chain lines long enough to easily mount a mid-drive. It's also nice if the frame makes space for the motor and provides easy mounting points.

Marty