Advice on TOSEVEN 1000W on Motobecane Sturgis/Night Train

[pearsth]

Hello -

I want to purchase a ToSeven DM01 kit to convert my Motobecane Night Train fat bike. It is a size small frame with the following dimensions.

				ch
A	SEAT TUBE, CENTER TO TOP	15.5 inch
C-2	EFFECTIVE TOP TUBE LENGTH	595mm
D	CHAIN STAY	460.0mm
E	BB DROP	n/a
F	FORK OFFSET (Bluto)	51.0
G	HEAD TUBE ANGLE	69.5
H	SEAT TUBE ANGLE	73
I	WHEEL BASE	1093
J	STAND OVER HEIGHT*	709
K	BB HEIGHT	319mm
*	Standover on Axis with BB

It has a 100mm bottom bracket, but the chain stays are wide to accomidate large wheels. I have the following quesions:

Should I get a 100mm or 120mm wide DM01? Others with a BBSHD and my frame have stated that they had to use 120mm to have the cranks the proper distance evenly With 100mm, they have to somehow shim one side and then they are not even. See pic for width.

From a gearing standpoint, I currently have a 10 speed 11-36 cassette. I was going to upgrade to a 11-48 cassette, but not sure if this makes sense for an e-bike.

My riding will be light commuting in the summer on 29er wheels and fat biking in trails in the winter on the fat bike wheels. What front sprocket would you recommend for either the 11-36 or 11-48 cassette?

What size battery would you reocmmend in terms of volts? Not sure what the different is between 48 and 52? If money were not an object, which is perferred?

Thanks,

Tom

 

[Chalo]

You're going to have to pedal like an obese arthritic duck. If you won't need a fatbike to do most of the riding you do, why impair it by using a fatbike?

The bottom range of your gearing will be irrelevant as long as your motor is working. So making the bottom gears lower won't help except when you're not using the motor (which would be a mistake to do with the pedals a half meter apart).

 

[pearsth]

So is your answer 100 or 120mm? I don't mind how wide the pedals are on a 10mm bottom bracket at all, in fact I kinda like it. I have plenty of miles on this bike the way it is now. My other bike is a carbon full suspension and I have no interest on converting that. A big reason I do want to do this is to enjoy winter XC trails and riding more with and e-Bike.

If people had issues with the cranks striking the frame with a BBSHD 100mm and had to go to 120 to get them right, it shouldn't be any wider anyway, right?

 

[moped-dan]

Others with a BBSHD and my frame have stated that they had to use 120mm to have the cranks the proper distance evenly With 100mm, they have to somehow shim one side and then they are not even. See pic for width.

Problem with Bafang BBSHD and Fat Bike? Fitting

Most people shim the bbshd because the gear reduction case hits the chainstay as in the thread above ^ If the gear case area on the toseven wont hit the chainstay, then no need for shims and id get the 100mm

Maybe you can measure or print a mock up from the dimensions on the toseven site? I would hope the newer motor would have better clearance than the bbshd.

DM01 E-bike Mid-Drive Motor

 

[neptronix]

I would go as narrow as you possibly could. You will be pedaling like a duck even at 100mm because the mid drive will easily add 40mm-80mm.

Your end Q factor will be in the 200-240 range with the 100mm drive already, the width is so extreme it could disbalance your leg muscles if you actually pedaled. Minimize added width as much as possible for the sake of your medial meniscus.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

I would go as narrow as you possibly could. You will be pedaling like a duck even at 100mm because the mid drive will easily add 40mm-80mm.

Your end Q factor will be in the 200-240 range with the 100mm drive already, the width is so extreme it could disbalance your leg muscles if you actually pedaled. Minimize added width as much as possible for the sake of your medial meniscus.

View attachment 353677

I love when chart starts from non-zero values to fool people that there is big difference between values.
If you look at numbers you will quickly notice that difference is meaningless! ~19.4% vs ~19.1%.
Who on earth notices <1% difference!?

 

[pearsth]

Problem with Bafang BBSHD and Fat Bike? Fitting

Most people shim the bbshd because the gear reduction case hits the chainstay as in the thread above ^ If the gear case area on the toseven wont hit the chainstay, then no need for shims and id get the 100mm

Maybe you can measure or print a mock up from the dimensions on the toseven site? I would hope the newer motor would have better clearance than the bbshd.

DM01 E-bike Mid-Drive Motor

I have found others who have done this with the BBSHD and all have gone with 120mm. The real question is as you state - will the gear case hit the chainstay or not. I emailed Johnny Nerd Out as that is where I plan to buy and he said it is really close and may need a 5 or 10mm spacer at worst. Going to do as you suggest and spend some time studying schematics. I want to try to get the 100 but really don't want to be stuck with doing return shipping if it doesn't work out.

 

[neptronix]

I love when chart starts from non-zero values to fool people that there is big difference between values.

How sure are you that the image i took from a study was intended to fool people?

If you look at numbers you will quickly notice that difference is meaningless! ~19.4% vs ~19.1%.
Who on earth notices <1% difference!?

Any serious cyclist would notice a percent or two.
They only went up to 180mm, not 250mm. it indicates things get worse the wider you go.

Another problem high Q factor is that as you're pedaling it, you're putting high pressure on one side of the knee and lower pressure on the other. For health reasons, it would be inadvisable to pedal with your legs bent like that. The pedals on a bicycle are intended to work with how humans walk, not how ducks walk.

Attached is the original study from the image i posted.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

How sure are you that the image i took from a study was intended to fool people?



Any serious cyclist would notice a percent or two.
They only went up to 180mm, not 250mm. it indicates things get worse the wider you go.

Another problem high Q factor is that as you're pedaling it, you're putting high pressure on one side of the knee and lower pressure on the other. For health reasons, it would be inadvisable to pedal with your legs bent like that. The pedals on a bicycle are intended to work with how humans walk, not how ducks walk.

Attached is the original study from the image i posted.

Proper chart starts from zero value. When I see charts like this I smell BS. End of story.

 

[neptronix]

Yeah, i figured you'd continue to focus on a superficial detail and not read about the thing you're criticizing.