Raptor build - pre build stage

[Dark Knight]

Edit 1: 24/04/2014 0415 GMT
Edit 2: 29/04/2014 0700 GMT
Edit 3: 21/05/2014 0652 GMT (edit inserted directly below)

List of actual parts ordered and to be ordered - the 'options' below remain unchanged even though some of the final choices were different

List of ordered:
Rear Shock - Cane Creek Double Barrel
Rims - Torpedo 7 own brand 19x1.85 7075 ally
Tyres - Shinko 241 2.75x19 (will also have Shinko 244s to try)
Head Set - Cane Creek Series 40 ZS
Spacers - variety in ally (gold and black) and carbon...and a cane creek interlock spacer. Looking at offroaders fork/headset fitting, I may need more though...
Stem - Crank Brother Iodine 2 65mm (damn accesory bits in silver though...and supplier doesn't have gold so no changey....might try and contact crank brothers to see if they can send out the accessory bits in gold)
Handle Bars - Crank Brothers Iodine 2 AM Riser handle bar (looking at it, should maybe have gone with more of a rise....we'll see when it's all built)
Crank & BB - Shimano Zee FC-M645
Pedals - Shimano Saint PD-MX80
Seat Post - Truvativ Husslefelt Seatpost 400mm (gonna be too long...but that's what angle griners are for... )
SP Clamp - Gold Procraft PRC
Front Hub - Shimano HB-M820 36H FH Disc
Brakes - Shimano Saint M820
Disc Front - Shimano Saint RT99 Ice Tech CL 203mm
Disc Rear - Shimano Saint RT86 Ice Tech 6 bolt 203mm
Rear Deraulier - Shimano ZEE M640 Shadow Plus
Shifter - Shimano ZEE SL-M2640 Rapidfire plus


Parts still to get:
Forks - Fox 40 RC2 FIT Float Kashima - trying to source these at a reasonable price with the steering tube intact...no joy thus far. Wish I had of bought those white ones for $950 and bit the bullet on painting em.
Motor - will defintely be Cro, just finalising payment info to order
Batteries - will be samsung 25Rs, hoping to fit in 22s12p in 3 or more separate 'packs'
Controller, BMS and display - waiting for MaxE adaptto to be back in stock
Spokes - waiting for Shimano front hub and torpedo rims to measure up
Throttle - still deciding on this one. The domino pot looks like a reasonable option, and by all accounts is pretty well made. Still a pot though... Also, rumour has it the Adaptto lads are working on something with thrust one way and regen the other - a dual twist throttle. May go for a cheapie thumb throttle in the interim and wait for the Adaptto solution...
Switches - any suggestions? Guess I'll need to figure out exactly what I want switched...and an additional thumb throttle for regen?
Rear Freewheel - contemplating one of the DNP 7sp with 11 tooth higher gear just worried it may not fit...hmmm
Seat - probably get a Velo comfort and a Planet Bike ARS (do have the moto seat coming with the frame)



G'day all

I'm 99.99% committed to getting the raptor frame ordered within the next few weeks and am now at the stage of compiling a list of parts. Quality and price (or should I say value) are important considerations - weight saving obviously not so... I'm happy to stump up the cash for quality components but don't need to have the best/brightest/latest. Below is a post i put on the raptor thread http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=48089&start=950 a few days ago to kick this off - some of the feedback provided edited in.

I'll make consistent edits to this first post with info as supplied. Hopefully this may help any others now and into the future doing custom builds on raptor/phaser/chaiko/greyborg frame sets as it's likely that although all the frames are different, many options are interchangeable. Apologies for the length of the post but please don't be bored off...

Excerpt follows

G'day thrill seekers. If any of you are like me, you may enjoy vicariously building bikes through other sphere members... To that end, just thought I'd kick off the thought bubble around my (hopefully) imminent Raptor build (i.e. this is a thinly veiled attempt to get you guys to help me source the best kit). Any of our Northern American friends that may be willing to help, please keep in mind the heightened posting costs from your neck of the woods...particularly from the US. Posting from HK, Taiwan, China etc. is favourable (although guarantees of actually getting product not always so...).

Some of the inspirations to this build so far are ecruz, snellemin, moonshine (now sold), e-fuel, offroader, uschi k. etc

Sooo....let's get started (edit 2 - slightly modded below to provide actual alternative proposed builds).

Frame
Hmmm....toughie...maybe Raptor. Colour is key here...still undecided. I like the black and orange that eride in Austria have made (picture in spinning magnets electric bike article on raptor), also have thought about black frame with red attachments and wheels...or black with silver attachments and silver wheels...choices....but essentially I prefer the main frame to be black (as much as I like E Fuel and offroaders builds)...however depends on fork colour as well...oh the choices.
Options:
1. Raptor moto frame in black with red attachments
2. Raptor moto frame in black with black attachments

Wheels
Thinking 19 x 1.85 prowheels (maybe 1.4 at front....) with Shinko SR241 2.75 rubber front and back...I do like the symmetry of same size wheels. Would think about possibly 18 in pros on back with 3 inch rubber...open to suggestions. Colours to work in with frame above. (have found prowheels for 35 per rim on eBay but postage is 90 for 2 to oz...i.e. more than the wheels - any suggestions for local MC rims or cheaper postage gratefully accepted).
Options:
1. 19 x 1.85 in red prowheel both front and rear with Shinko SR241 2.75-19 rubber
2. 19 x 1.85 in black prowheel both front and rear with Shinko SR241 2.75-19 rubber

Tubes
Suggestions?
Options:

Rim liners
Worthwhile?
Options:

Motor
Cromotor V3 (dual halls and dual temp probe). Toying with the crown to allow a cassette at back but as this will be almost exclusively off road and e powered...not sure if the complexity is worth it.
Options:
1. Cromotor V3
2. Cromotor V3

Front Hub
DMR Revolver Hub? Other suggestions?
Options:
1. DMR revolver Hub
2. Shimano Saint HB-M820 36H hub

Controller, Display, BMS
MaxE Adaptto integrated solution
Options:
1: Adaptto MaxE
2: Adaptto MaxE

Rear Shock
Fox DHX RC4? Rockshox Vivid R2C? Manitou revocation? Others? Will likely go for 10.5 x 3.5, looking for suggestions on 'spring weight' given I weigh in @ 110ks/230lbs (my 'fighting' weight is early to mid 90's - just enjoyed too many pies and beer lately...)
Options:
1. Marzocchi Roco WC Coil. Having troubles locating this in the 'full' 10.5in (267mm) length - any advice?
2. Cane Creek Double Barrel Coil

Forks
Dual/Triple Crown presumably. Mazzie 888s? Fox 40 RC2? Manitou Dorado Pro/Expert? DNM USD-8? Pit bike/mc options? Weight is not a primary concern but get the feeling that DH MTB forks will win out over pit bike/mc options...just trying to find the best option for quality and value. Also, what's the suggested Crown to Axel height presuming I'm running the same sized tires (19x2.75) front and rear?
Options:
1. Marzocchi 888 CR. Hoping to source a prior year runout model or decent second hand - any pointers appreciated...
2. Fox 40 RC2 Kashima Not too fussed about latest model with air shock...will likely try and source a good second hand version

Head Set
Depends on forks to a degree...does it?
Options:
1.
2.

Stem
Open to suggestions
Options:
1. Easton Haven 55mm in all black (chosen for a shorter stem length than the EA50/70 range)
2. Easton Haven 55mm in all black (chosen for a shorter stem length than the EA50/70 range)

Handlebars
Like the idea of the flex bars but as with others, not sure if I'd fully use them. Again, open too suggestions...
Options:
1. Easton EA50 Riser http://www.eastoncycling.com/en-gb/ea50-mb-292
2. Easton EA50 Riser http://www.eastoncycling.com/en-gb/ea50-mb-292
Chosen as seems to be slightly more robust and cheaper than the EA70 with the cost of a little extra (grams) of weight - I'll just skip the extra pie before jumping on the bike to offset this...

Brake Levers
Magura MT2/4, Shimano Zees (pressure switches/ebrake and motor cutoff activation?)
Options:
1. Avid Speed dial 7 brake levers
2. Shimano Saint M820 with gold fitting(s)
Any advice on how these can be fitted out for e-cutoff and potentially brake lights...or is there a better leaver to use (plug and play)? No need for ebrake/regen as suspect I'll be using a thumb control or something similar for that.

Brake Calipers
Magura MT2/4, Shimano Zees
Options:
1. Avid BB7 MTB disc brake
2. Shimano Saint M820
Has anyone had similar experiences to DrunkSkunk in that Hydros would boil off? I always though Hydraulic would be better and more reliable...is just simply that they're 'lighter' at the lever? The ability to stop is more important than any other facet (light touch etc.) when it comes to the braking solution bearing in mind the weight of machine and rider on this beast, and the potential speeds to be travelled

Brake Discs
Hayes 203mm? Duals on front (guess this will be fork dependent...?)
Options:
1. Hayes H9 9 inch discs (unless something else automatically comes with the brake set that is sufficient)
2. Shimano Saint RT99 Ice-Tech Disc Rotor, 203 CL for front and 203 bolt for rear

BB and crankset
Shimano zee? schlumpf high speed drive? Looking for feedback on any others with high power bikes who may be running some form of schlumpf/ats drive...is it worth the additional expense? Apparently will need the special schlumpf hsd with extended axel (83mm) which won't give much change from a grand...worth it? The cheaper ats that fits (and ships with if selected) the greyborg frame would almost be a no brainer...but the hsd is considerably more expensive.
Options:
1. Schlumpf HSD
2. Schlumpf HSD
This ones is still hugely up in the air as trying to justify to myself the additional expense

Pedals
Options:
looking for platform like - Snellemins look pretty good
1. Shimano Saint MX80 flat pedals
2. Shimano Saint MX80 flat pedals

Batteries
Most likely LiPo hopefully built by jonescg (based in Perth)...but open to 18650 cells for safety and longevity if realistic (Hyena built?) - 20/22sXp unless adaptto release 150v version of MaxE...then maybe 28sXp depending
on what fits most elegantly in the frame
Will await frame to decide.

Charger
48+V powersupply depending on battery configuration (need to find out more but with the MaxE and cap and coil, you can charge directly from a power supply) (perhaps 2 of wired in series if going greater than 24s...?) Other suggestions?
Options:

Throttle
Thumb or twist? pot or hall based? Domino pot has been suggested as it appears to be a decent alternative.
Options:

Switches
(handle bars) (front lights high, front lights low, rear lights, controller, motor, horn/bell...?) (will depend on Fusebox/switch controller to a degree)
Options:

Fusebox/switch controller
There is a motocycle unit called the Motogadget m-Unit V2 http://motogadget.com/en/electrics/electronic-control-box-m-unit/m-unit-digit-tastersteuerung-u-sicherung.html which includes a gravity based alarm. Overkill for an ebike? Or sensible solutiuon to route many wires through?
This is still very much up in the air. Not sure of the value of a dedicated switcher/fusebox like the one linked...will think about lights, turn signals etc.

Seat Post
Options:
1. Black
2. Metallic matte gold

Seat post clamp
Options:
1. Generic metallic red
2. Generic Metallic gold (or black?)

Seat
Options:

GPS locator
Anti-theft device/trackers as opposed to GPS whilst I'm on the bike.
Options:

Please feel free to provide suggestions of what else I'll need (wires etc.) - as this will be the first ground up build I've done, I'll need all the help/advice I can get. Does anyone know if as a security measure, we can 'lock' the motor? Some of the controllers allow a complete wheel lock (bring to complete stop) regen mode...was wondering if this could be 'accessed' to lock the motor...? Would stop people being able to grab the puppy and cycle away... (Edit - appears confirmed that the Adaptto controllers allow wheel lock - joy)

I want to get an idea of parts as I'll start scouring out for them. Hoping to get quality second hand and/or last year run out models for lots of the bike parts (forks, rear shock, brake levers etc.) so just wanting to button down list whilst I'm still sorting out purchase of the frame.

Let the discourse begin...

Peace

 

[Drunkskunk]

Boxxer or Bomber forks is really a matter of personal preference. I think the Fox have won more races, but that might also be due to a larger cash outlay in sponsorships. On the road, I prefer the way Marzocchi feel. The seem to give a plusher ride over the very tiny bumps. Off road, I can't really tell the difference. So either an 888 Bomber of the Boxxer.
Get the rear shock to match brands with the front fork.

For bars, Easton EA70s. Its just a really good, tough bar.
Stem could be from the EA70 or EA50 line too.
Seatpost too, just to make the bike match.

Seat, the best damn seat I've ever used is a cheapy from a company called Planetbike. I use the A.R.S. model, and it's been the best at keeping the family jewels from going to sleep. At any price level and in 30+ years of riding, this was the best seat.

DMR revolver is what I've used on the Monster bike. Its held op fine even pushing 50+mph and taking some big drops while keeping my huge wheels in place.

Brakes, Avid BB7 with Hayes H9 9 Inch disks. I've melted the cable sheath on my BB7s playing hard, but the brakes still worked fine. If they had been Hydros, I would have boiled them off and had no brakes. get the levers to match.


Since you were concerned about color, the EA70, Marzocchi Roco, and DMR, Avid BB7, and Planetbike's primary colors are Black with Red.

If you can fit the Schlumpf, thats the way to go. Otherwise the Truvativ Hussefelt is rock solid.

 

[Dark Knight]

Thanks for the response DrunkSkunk. I read through your build thread a couple of months ago - one of the most entertaining on the sphere in my humble opinion...and really impressed by your skills. Would love to fab a frame from scratch but that'll likely have to wait until some time in the future...

Will edit my original post soon with your suggestions - likely tomorrow as it's mighty close to bedtime on this side of the hemisphere...

Thanks again.

 

[Dark Knight]

Made some edits to first post highlighting what's the prime choice. I'll update further as this changes, and also confirm when specific items are purchased for anyones interest. Will be keeping a cost log for curiousity's sake and happy to divulge this info as it becomes available - I'll clearly separate out product cost and shipping cost and will list in transactional currency (i.e. USD if US bought, Euro if european bought etc.) and AUD equivalent...as that's the monopoly money I'll be paying in! The only exceptions to this will be for items where the sellers requests the information is kept private - i.e. potential second hand deals or OEM deals etc.

Just wanted some feedback on a couple of items. The stealth bomber appears to go for a DNM MT-RC fork http://www.dnmshock.com/products.php?func=p_detail&p_id=14&pc_parent=3 (link pinched from Hyenas thread - with thanks to Allex foir posting) which appears to be very suitable for these large rear hubbies bikes...and is also pretty affordable (I can source a new one for around $200 delivered). Bearing in mind the 'fit for purpose' edict, and value proposition, what do people think of this as a potential option for rear suspension?

Also, DNM do a very affordable MTB fork (USD-8) which I cn get for AUD399 delivered and also a dirtbike fork (DNM NM-200) which I can't find the weight for. Unfortunately the colour on the latest models looks to be white (would prefer black primary with red secondary) so not sure if I'd go for these but very interested in peoples feedback if they have any experiece with any of these. I'd be more than happy with a Marzocchi's I suspect - it's just locating them for a decent price shipped to the lad of oz is key...

For some further info, the bike is likely going to weight in at least 55kg/120lbs and my weight is in excess of 100kg/220lbs (but on it's way back down) if that factors into rear shock/fork thoughts.

 

[GiantEV]

Another vote here for the Avid BB7. They have worked great for me on my bikes. I enjoy their maintenance simplicity over hydraulic brakes I've had in the past.

I have my eye on a Raptor build with Adaptto mini-e for myself in the not too distant future so I'm excited to see how yours turns out.

I'm building a HS4080 into a 19x1.40 ProWheel rim currently, which I'll bring over to the Raptor if I buy one. If I was getting a Raptor sooner I'd have gotten the Cromotor, but the Cro won't fit in my current frame.

 

[Offroader]

Stealth bike does a custom valve job on there rear shock.

I looked at there shock also. I decided not to get it because the DHX RC4 shock had more rear travel. I wanted to max that out.

The ratio of the raptor requires a 3.5" travel to get over 10" of rear travel. I am not sure how much it matters.

If you can get your hands on a custom valve shock from stealth bikes itself, then it may be worth it. I heard the heavy hub motor rear wheels need a custom valve job to deal with the rebound I believe.

Your weight only matters for the weight of the spring you use. I tried 450lbs, it was way too stiff and couldn't get the full travel, I then went to 350 and that was OK, but I bottomed out too much, I then bought a 400 which I have not tried yet.

 

[ecruz]

Frame
I went with bare metal to attach some heat sinks were the custom 24fet controller goes and had a graphic artist design the powder coat scheme. You can order it bare metal you might even like that look. Just an FYI

Wheels:
I plan to commute daily with the bike so in my case I need to keep it looking like a bike. I am using 36 Alex Rims DX32 Double walled, with 4cross lacing (strongest possible) which is the strongest widest rim for DH. Aside from Surely. I then went with titanium washers nipples and spokes. both front and rear. Super light super strong. 24" in back and 26 in front. Since I decided to go to 24" on back I do have a spare rim that I wont be using if interested.

Tubes
Suggestions?
Current 'choice':
I went with Slime DH tubes and so far so good. However do not expect it to save you if you put a big hole its only good for small type stuff but it helps.

Rim liners
Worthwhile?
Current 'choice':
I have rim liners in my other bikes and I can't tell the difference however if you do go with it make sure you rough up all edges as the sides wear out and actually can give you flats.

Motor
Cromotor V3 (dual halls and dual temp probe). Toying with the crown to allow a cassette at back but as this will be almost exclusively off road and e powered...not sure if the complexity is worth it.
Current 'choice': Cromotor V3

FYI, by making my own break adapter I have removed weight have been able to put with plenty of clearance a Shimano icetech rotor and a 5 speed freewheel cassette from Maillard. I also have a spare new spare rotor and bracket if you need one.

Front Hub
DMR Revolver Hub? Other suggestions?
Current 'choice': DMR revolver Hub
I went with the Shimano Saint M820 to be able to use the Icetech rotors as they only come in front lock pattern. I swapped the steel bearing with ceramic ones.

Controller, Display, BMS
MaxE Adaptto integrated solution
Current 'choice': MaxE (I saw this very cool)

I went with a modified custom Lyen 24fet and Cycle Analyst v3

Batteries
Most likely LiPo hopefully built by jonescg (based in Perth)...but open to 18650 cells for safety and longevity if realistic (Hyena built?) - 20/22sXp unless adaptto release 150v version of MaxE...then maybe 28sXp depending
on what fits most elegantly in the frame
Current 'choice': LiPos built by jonescg (although still could swing to 18650 cells depending on what Hyena get's up to...)

As of now the best battery option I have found is Panasonic NCR18650B Cells 3.6v 3400mah at 46grams is the safest least weight. $7.50 each for a total of 168 split into two packs for charging. 28s6p 100v 20ah 17.4 pounds!!!! I haven't found anything that can beat it.

Charger
48+V powersupply depending on battery configuration (need to find out more but with the MaxE and cap and coil, you can charge directly from a power supply) (perhaps 2 of wired in series if going greater than 24s...?) Other suggestions?
Current 'choice':

Rear Shock
Fox DHX RC4? Rockshox Vivid R2C? Manitou revocation? Others? Will likely go for 10.5 x 3.5, looking for suggestions on 'spring weight' given I weigh in @ 110ks/230lbs (my 'fighting' weight is early to mid 90's - just enjoyed too many pies and beer lately...)
Current 'choice': Marzocchi Roco WC Coil. Having troubles locating this in the 'full' 10.5in (267mm) length - any advice?

The best shock is Cane Creek DB but its expensive and you need to tune it. But after is awesome. I have a cheap source for TI springs if you need it.

Forks
Dual/Triple Crown presumably. Mazzie 888s? Fox 40 RC2? Manitou Dorado Pro/Expert? DNM USD-8? Pit bike/mc options? Weight is not a primary concern but get the feeling that DH MTB forks will win out over pit bike/mc options...just trying to find the best option for quality and value. Also, what's the suggested Crown to Axel height presuming I'm running the same sized tires (19x2.75) front and rear?
Current 'choice': Marzocchi 888 CR. Hoping to source a prior year runout model or decent second hand - any pointers appreciated...

I went with 40RC2 with Kashima it just looks awesome. But all work well I have a black rockchox boxxer with a Hope integrated stem at a good price the came with a bike that I am not using if you want to go that route.

Head Set
Depends on forks to a degree...does it?
Current 'choice':

Hope Integrated Stem

Stem
Open to suggestions
Current 'choice': Easton Haven 55mm in all black (chosen for a shorter stem length than the EA50/70 range)

Handlebars
Like the idea of the flex bars but as with others, not sure if I'd fully use them. Again, open too suggestions...
Current 'choice': Easton EA50 Riser http://www.eastoncycling.com/en-gb/ea50-mb-292 - chosen as seems to be slightly more robust and cheaper than the EA70 with the cost of a little extra (grams) of weight - I'll just skip the extra pie before jumping on the bike to offset this...

Check out Merek Carbon on Ebay awesome bars reinforced aluminum inner with Carbon outer. You can even bolt mirrors etc on ends.

Throttle
Thumb or twist? pot or hall based? Domino pot has been suggested as it appears to be a decent alternative.
Current 'choice':

Cheap Crystalite
2nd best Magura
Best but expensive Domino only in full handle

Switches
(handle bars) (front lights high, front lights low, rear lights, controller, motor, horn/bell...?) (will depend on Fusebox/switch controller to a degree)
Current 'choice':

Check out my picture for lights and horn. That horn is the best I have found. ligts are amazing.


BB and crankset
Shimano zee? schlumpf high speed drive? Looking for feedback on any others with high power bikes who may be running some form of schlumpf/ats drive...is it worth the additional expense? Apparently will need the special schlumpf hsd with extended axel (83mm) which won't give much change from a grand...worth it? The cheaper ats that fits (and ships with if selected) the greyborg frame would almost be a no brainer...but the hsd is considerably more expensive.
Current 'choice': Schlumpf HSD (this ones is still hugely up in the air as trying to justify to myself the additional expense) I am with you on the expense. I have SRAM Carbon with Raceface and ceramic bottom bracket but considering the Schlumpf. I want to give it a little time see how much I really end up pedaling. My idea is pedal for exercise when possible.

Pedals
looking for platform like - Snellemins look pretty good
Current 'choice':

Take a look at the ethriteen pedals

Fusebox/switch controller
There is a motocycle unit called the Motogadget m-Unit V2 http://motogadget.com/en/electrics/elec ... erung.html which includes a gravity based alarm. Overkill for an ebike? Or sensible solutiuon to route many wires through?
Current 'choice':

Seat Post

Canecreek shock there is a small and large depending on your height. I have still the larger suspension one for sale. I went with the smaller one so I can fit a water cage.
?
Current 'choice':

Seat post clamp
?
Whatever you like in looks not a big deal
Current 'choice':

Seat
Current 'choice':
http://www.squidoo.com/most-comfortable-gel-saddles
I went with SERFAS DDM-200 Men's Lycra Dual Density Saddle
super comfortable and looks great.


Brake Levers
Magura MT2/4, Shimano Zees (pressure switches/ebrake and motor cutoff activation?)
Current 'choice': Avid Speed dial 7 brake levers
Any advice on how these can be fitted out for e-cutoff and potentially brake lights...or is there a better leaver to use (plug and play)? No need for ebrake/regen as suspect I'll be using a thumb control or something similar for that.

Brake Calipers
Magura MT2/4, Shimano Zees
Current 'choice': Avid BB7 MTB disc brake
Has anyone had similar experiences to DrunkSkunk in that Hydros would boil off? I always though Hydraulic would be better and more reliable...is just simply that they're 'lighter' at the lever? The ability to stop is more important than any other facet (light touch etc.) when it comes to the braking solution bearing in mind the weight of machine and rider on this beast, and the potential speeds to be travelled

I went with FS - Hope Tech M4 Disc brake and love them

Brake Discs
Hayes 203mm? Duals on front (guess this will be fork dependent...?)
Current 'choice': Hayes H9 9 inch discs (unless something else automatically comes with the brake set that is sufficient)

Shimano Saint RT99 Ice-Tech CL Disc Rotor amazing!!!

GPS locator
Suggestions?
Current 'choice':
iphone LOL with topeak holder works amazing.

Please feel free to provide suggestions of what else I'll need (wires etc.) - as this will be the first ground up build I've done, I'll need all the help/advice I can get. Does anyone know if as a security measure, we can 'lock' the motor? Some of the controllers allow a complete wheel lock (bring to complete stop) regen mode...was wondering if this could be 'accessed' to lock the motor...? Would stop people being able to grab the puppy and cycle away... (Edit - appears confirmed that the Adaptto controllers allow wheel lock - joy)

 

[ecruz]

Private message me an email I can send you pics of lights and horn. Too big to send cant crop right now.

 

[Kent]

First, many thanks for a thoughtful, well organized post!

My 2c about 19 "tires. There is increased interest in 19" mc wheels recently thanks to a couple of recent posts. However, I for one went with 19" wheels from JRH-quality work to be sure-but then found that compared to other sizes like 18" that the tire selections were very limited.

There seems to be trend for the widest you can fit on your ride. Why? There's clearance issues with some, extra mass and strain on the bearings, reduced range.

I ended up with 2.50 x 19 Deestone tires from Treatland which I am more than happy with but actually am considering going down to 2.25 in the front to lighten up the steering.



Problem is that under 2.75, they are considered moped tires. Regular tire suppliers don't stock them and whats out there are in specialty shops and can be old stock.You mentioned wanting to ride essentially off-road but if the day comes when you want to go over to street tires, just be aware that your tire choices are very limited.

Myself, if I were to do it again, I would look more closely at 18", wheels and tires with availability of sizes and brands.

Look forward to seeing this thread develop! As you compare products, try to include costs if easily available.

 

[Offroader]

I went with the shinko 241 2.75x19 tire as that was the lightest tire that was recommended.

I never heard of these deestone tires and wonder how they would compare to a shinko 241.

You are correct in that it is stupid to go with a wide tire on an ebike. You need a moped tire on the rear but don't go wide.

For the front use a 26" downhill bicycle tire. I don't understand why people are putting moped tires on the front as it is not needed and adds weight and extra resistance.

 

[Dark Knight]

Hey ecruz. Thanks for the feedback - I'll edit into the first post soon. Will also send through pm with email as I'd love to see some more pictures of your steed - haven't seen enough posted by you! :wink:

First, many thanks for a thoughtful, well organized post!

My 2c about 19 "tires. There is increased interest in 19" mc wheels recently thanks to a couple of recent posts. However, I for one went with 19" wheels from JRH-quality work to be sure-but then found that compared to other sizes like 18" that the tire selections were very limited.

There seems to be trend for the widest you can fit on your ride. Why? There's clearance issues with some, extra mass and strain on the bearings, reduced range.

I ended up with 2.50 x 19 Deestone tires from Treatland which I am more than happy with but actually am considering going down to 2.25 in the front to lighten up the steering.



Problem is that under 2.75, they are considered moped tires. Regular tire suppliers don't stock them and whats out there are in specialty shops and can be old stock.You mentioned wanting to ride essentially off-road but if the day comes when you want to go over to street tires, just be aware that your tire choices are very limited.

Myself, if I were to do it again, I would look more closely at 18", wheels and tires with availability of sizes and brands.

Look forward to seeing this thread develop! As you compare products, try to include costs if easily available.

Cheers Kent. I'm hoping the thread will certainly help me and others in some part selection. I've some experience with bikes (mainly XC not so much DH) but very little experience with e-bikes (although hopefully I'm learning fastish...) but what is abundantly clear to me is that part selection takes on a whole new dimension when bike weight goes to 55kg+/120lbs+ and speeds in excess of 50mph.

All of the information is available in the sphere but I couldn't find a thread where all of the options were edited into the first post...not that I'm pretending I can capture all of the options of course as it will stll be driven by my biases.

With regards to rear rubber, some reasonably cluey people on ES have put Shinko rubber at the top of the list and they have quite a range size wise. I was simply 'plagiarising' their R&D...and I like the look of the 19s...seems closest to 26MTB 'standard' tire OD (less than an inch in it...). Not too fussed about other tire options as I suspect I'll stick with the Shinko SR41 and I really like the look of the 19in size...hopefully they work pretty well and I'm not allowing my opinion on aesthetics override function...

Re: prices - will definitely be including estimates with links where possible...and happy for any further suggestions. I suspect the first post will go through several iterations in setout. I'll post when I've actually pulled the trigger on particular part but will still update for options for the benefit of others...or hand the batten on to someone else as I'll be too busy out riding once she's all wrapped up...

I went with the shinko 241 2.75x19 tire as that was the lightest tire that was recommended.

I never heard of these deestone tires and wonder how they would compare to a shinko 241.

You are correct in that it is stupid to go with a wide tire on an ebike. You need a moped tire on the rear but don't go wide.

For the front use a 26" downhill bicycle tire. I don't understand why people are putting moped tires on the front as it is not needed and adds weight and extra resistance.

Hey offroader - really like your build and vids - you musta sheet yaself when the handlebars went on that drop off...

The research you've done has helped me with quite a few options - thanks for that.

Re: front rim - I suspect I'll have a crack at a multiple of options, including a MTB tire. Part of the thought behind going for MC rim with MC tire was safety - I have nightmares of me smashing it along @ 60mph+ and the front MTB tire going *pop* followed by me going 'faaaaarrrrrrk'...*crunch*. Thought a bit of a weight penalty would an acceptable price to pay for DoT rated tires...also hope that the additional weight would help to balance the rear hub a little for jumps etc. Also thought the rolling resistance would be almost irrelevant @ ebike power and speeds levels...

All my thoughts are purely academic at this stage though and I definitely defer to the knowledge of you and others out there on your steeds proving (or disproving) this stuff up!

Thanks for all the feedback guys - much appreciated.

 

[Offroader]

One thing you are going to have to consider is bottom bracket height. I learned all about these things with a lot of research when I did my build. Before I even bought the raptor I made sure the geometry would be what I wanted.

Optimally you want a bottom bracket height around 14" for downhill. You will also want this height for your ebike if you're going to be riding it off road. The good news is that if you use a 26" mountain bike tire front and 19" MC tire in the rear, with proper shock placement (using a 10.5x3.5") you will have a 14.2" bottom bracket height.

What you have to watch out for is going with a 19" motocross tire in the front, this will lower your bottom bracket height and also the geometry of the bike. You can adjust the rear with the shock placement, but you can't adjust the front geometry. Going with that smaller tire in the front will also change the head tube angle.

Also a 26" mountain bike tire will roll over obstacles much better than a 19" MC tire will. You should probably consider a 21" MC tire in the front as I believe that is close to a 26" mountain bike tire.

You are going to have to take these things into consideration if you want a properly handling bike. What would be interesting is if we could compare bikes and see if these differences make a difference. I tried hard to build my bike to have the best handling geometry.

I see a lot of guys putting small tires on their bikes and lowering the bottom bracket to 13" or even 12.5". This is even on bikes like the phasor. It is a bad idea to do in my opinion, and I really prefer the high bottom bracket height as I just plow through things and ride steps easier with the higher bottom bracket.

 

[Dark Knight]

One thing you are going to have to consider is bottom bracket height. I learned all about these things with a lot of research when I did my build. Before I even bought the raptor I made sure the geometry would be what I wanted.

Optimally you want a bottom bracket height around 14" for downhill. You will also want this height for your ebike if you're going to be riding it off road. The good news is that if you use a 26" mountain bike tire front and 19" MC tire in the rear, with proper shock placement (using a 10.5x3.5") you will have a 14.2" bottom bracket height.

What you have to watch out for is going with a 19" motocross tire in the front, this will lower your bottom bracket height and also the geometry of the bike. You can adjust the rear with the shock placement, but you can't adjust the front geometry. Going with that smaller tire in the front will also change the head tube angle.

Also a 26" mountain bike tire will roll over obstacles much better than a 19" MC tire will. You should probably consider a 21" MC tire in the front as I believe that is close to a 26" mountain bike tire.

You are going to have to take these things into consideration if you want a properly handling bike. What would be interesting is if we could compare bikes and see if these differences make a difference. I tried hard to build my bike to have the best handling geometry.

I see a lot of guys putting small tires on their bikes and lowering the bottom bracket to 13" or even 12.5". This is even on bikes like the phasor. It is a bad idea to do in my opinion, and I really prefer the high bottom bracket height as I just plow through things and ride steps easier with the higher.

Hey mate - you're 100% right there - geometry and BB height is absolutely important - part of the reason I'd stick with 19in in the rear and the front will be easily interchangeable. I'll definitely have a 26 incher around with some quality rubber to try that out as well. As I said before, you're research has helped guide me already and I'll be far from ignoring it! Just a quick question, is anyone aware of a fork with changeable height...? If you were to go with a slightly smaller front tire for instance, are there any forks that allow you to adjust the bike geometry?

To Kent - I didn't reference your mention re: returning to road tires. By all accounts, the Shinko SR241s are 60/40 off/on road so hopefully they'd suffice for the minimal road/tarmac time I'd do...

I'll be mainly using the bike as a 'dirt bike' replacement - in west oz we're fortunate to have designated off road tracks/ areas with trails and jumps etc. and this is where I intend to give the beast a good hammering - so much of the design will be loosely based on that. Hopefully it won't take me too long to get the 40+ yr old body and mind back into the game...

 

[Dark Knight]

Latest edit. Am currently toying with 2 options.

Option 1: Red and black colour combo with Marzocchi Roco WC Coil rear shock, Marzocchi 888 CR front forks, Avid BB7 brakes etc. (many parts helpfully identified by DrunkSkunk)
Option 2: Black on black colour combo (with 'gold' bling) with Cane Creek Double Barrel Coil rear shock, Fox 40 RC2 w/Kashima front forks, Shimano Saint anchors, Shimano saint front hub (with a little inspiration from ecruz)

Option 2 will be probably 1000-1300 more (depending on how well I go sourcing the front forks for instance) but on a bike that all up is going to cost multiple thousands (frame, motor, wheels, batteries, wheels, spookes, crankset...specially is Sch HSD, labour etc.) I'm wondering if it's going to be a wiser decision to invest in the best quality parts. An almost complete listing of the parts I'm thinking about for each option is in the first thread - the parts have been chosen to hopefully match each other in quality and also in aesthetics/colour scheme. Still some final items to button down of course. I'll amend with some pricing estimates when I've tracked these down (may be in a mix of currencies).

What's people thoughts? Am I being tempted by the 'bling' and 'cool factor' of the CCDB and Fox 40RC2 and they're actually not that much better...? Being a man that's a little later in life, I have the cash available (will just have to hide the bank statements from the missus for a while) BUT don't need to be splashing cash unnecessarily...

Leaning towards option 2 though I've got to confess...

Curious, are any others willing to come clean and fess up how much they've sunk into their Raptor machines? Just curious is all... I do know my costs will be higher than guys in North America as we have the dreaded postage to deal with...however should be able to come under the europeans due to tax differences...

 

[Merlin]

when money is not in play go for it
iam on the same way....fox 40 float (kashima) but with rc4 kashima shock + black / black frame.

 

[ecruz]

Latest edit. Am currently toying with 2 options.

Option 1: Red and black colour combo with Marzocchi Roco WC Coil rear shock, Marzocchi 888 CR front forks, Avid BB7 brakes etc. (many parts helpfully identified by DrunkSkunk)
Option 2: Black on black colour combo (with 'gold' bling) with Cane Creek Double Barrel Coil rear shock, Fox 40 RC2 w/Kashima front forks, Shimano Saint anchors, Shimano saint front hub (with a little inspiration from ecruz)

Option 2 will be probably 1000-1300 more (depending on how well I go sourcing the front forks for instance) but on a bike that all up is going to cost multiple thousands (frame, motor, wheels, batteries, wheels, spookes, crankset...specially is Sch HSD, labour etc.) I'm wondering if it's going to be a wiser decision to invest in the best quality parts. An almost complete listing of the parts I'm thinking about for each option is in the first thread - the parts have been chosen to hopefully match each other in quality and also in aesthetics/colour scheme. Still some final items to button down of course. I'll amend with some pricing estimates when I've tracked these down (may be in a mix of currencies).

What's people thoughts? Am I being tempted by the 'bling' and 'cool factor' of the CCDB and Fox 40RC2 and they're actually not that much better...? Being a man that's a little later in life, I have the cash available (will just have to hide the bank statements from the missus for a while) BUT don't need to be splashing cash unnecessarily...

Leaning towards option 2 though I've got to confess...

Curious, are any others willing to come clean and fess up how much they've sunk into their Raptor machines? Just curious is all... I do know my costs will be higher than guys in North America as we have the dreaded postage to deal with...however should be able to come under the europeans due to tax differences...

LOL, I feel your pain. The only time I feel weird on the expenses is when I think of the motorcycle I could buy for what this bike costs lol. I have a sponsor so it doesn't hurt as much but I will tell you one thing every time I get on this thing I feel great on what is on it. Kind of when you ride on a luxury car lol. When you go with budget parts every time you get on it you wonder it would have been cool. So if your rent money is not at stake go for it. Bike parts are resalable an if you feel you went to far eBay is your friend lol.

 

[Dark Knight]

when money is not in play go for it
iam on the same way....fox 40 float (kashima) but with rc4 kashima shock + black / black frame.

Yep - think I'm with ya there Merlin

LOL, I feel your pain. The only time I feel weird on the expenses is when I think of the motorcycle I could buy for what this bike costs lol. I have a sponsor so it doesn't hurt as much but I will tell you one thing every time I get on this thing I feel great on what is on it. Kind of when you ride on a luxury car lol. When you go with budget parts every time you get on it you wonder it would have been cool. So if your rent money is not at stake go for it. Bike parts are resalable an if you feel you went to far eBay is your friend lol.

Too true my friend - we certainly bury a fair bit of cash in the hobby of ebikes...but fortunately the rent money aint at stake. Re: ebay etc. - that's gonna be the source, issue is that most of the good deals come up in NA and shipping is horrendous...

Anyone wanna volunteer to be my US based drop shipping assistant? That way I only get screwed once on the shipping - not for each potential product purchased...

 

[Mammalian04]

Hey Dark Knight. I'll be your US based drop shipper in exchange for some help on putting together my own build! I appreciate the effort you have gone through to put the thread together. It is helping me as a starting point. I just don't have to time to adequately research all parts to make sure they are happy together so I am thinking of finding a build I like and copying it exactly... or close. I wouldn't want to be a twinky!

 

[PRW]

Too true my friend - we certainly bury a fair bit of cash in the hobby of ebikes...but fortunately the rent money aint at stake.

Gee - you must somehow be able to print money! :wink:
only joking - great thread, and I look forward to seeing the end result!

 

[Dark Knight]

Hey Dark Knight. I'll be your US based drop shipper in exchange for some help on putting together my own build! I appreciate the effort you have gone through to put the thread together. It is helping me as a starting point. I just don't have to time to adequately research all parts to make sure they are happy together so I am thinking of finding a build I like and copying it exactly... or close. I wouldn't want to be a twinky!

Coolio - thanks mate. Will see where I'm going to source stuff from and will let you know.

With regards to build and parts selection, it all depends on what your budget and priorities are. As I've put earlier in the thread, I'm all about buy right, buy once but with an accent on value. I don't need the latest and greatest...although I'm not objectional to that. I'm also of the mind if I'm gonna do this, it's gonna cost some bucks and therefore I want it to look good - so aesthetics plays a part. I'd also like it to look as 'turn key' as possible - hence the concentration on aesthetics. In the first post I've listed down 2 options that I'm seriously considering - and leaning to the second one.

The first option would be about a grand cheaper and have what I think would be an awesome red and black theme. Most of the parts listed have black primary with red secondary colouring...with the others black primary and little other colouring (DrunkSkunk really helped with a lot of the parts selection here in his post to my thread). The second option is black primary with gold/bronze secondary - the parts are better quality and hence I'm leaning to this...the extra grand or so is 20% of overall cost estimate (excluding battery) and I can wear the cost...

So I've tied parts together based on both merit and aesthetics - other people will have different drivers. By doing this I may not be getting the best 'value' forks or shocks as they may compromise the colour scheme/overall bike tie in. Many others won't have that as a motivating factor and will build a better bike for cheaper...I just can't help being a bike tart...

In order to really button down a list, you need to decide/define what your motivation factors (cost/looks/function etc.) are - I'm sure we'll all then pitch in and help. I've followed this particular process as I don't have a web blog, don't belong to too many forums and like to hear the sound of my own voice (typing)... :lol:

 

[Dark Knight]

Too true my friend - we certainly bury a fair bit of cash in the hobby of ebikes...but fortunately the rent money aint at stake.

Gee - you must somehow be able to print money! :wink:
only joking - great thread, and I look forward to seeing the end result!

Hey PRW - I said the rent moneys not at stake...but didn't mention anything about the mortgage money...
Anyways, if the governments of the world can print money, then why can't we... Oh, that's right, when it's our esteemed leaders who do it on a MASS scale it is deemed as QE and is 'good for us all' (yeah...right) but if we do it on a small scale, it's counterfeitting and we get thrown in jail...

Damn you PRW - you've drawn out another political rant from me....very cunning...

 

[Dark Knight]

Feck me...am I gonna have to reconsider my colour scheme again...

http://www.bicyclesonline.com.au/cart.php?suggest=5362f6cade6c6

Appear to be only available in white....but AUD999 delivered for a new 2013 model Fox 40 Factory FIT RC2 Kashima is quite the deal.

Hmmmm....

 

[Mammalian04]

Sounds good. Just let me know if you need anything sent through.

Regarding the build, I have an idea of what my priorities are and the general aesthetic. I am definitely prioritizing low maintenance, durability, functionality, and ease of part sourcing over detail aesthetics though.

I suppose I should start a new thread now before I totally hijack yours! I'll keep following this one with anticipation though!

 

[Dark Knight]

Sounds good. Just let me know if you need anything sent through.

Regarding the build, I have an idea of what my priorities are and the general aesthetic. I am definitely prioritizing low maintenance, durability, functionality, and ease of part sourcing over detail aesthetics though.

I suppose I should start a new thread now before I totally hijack yours! I'll keep following this one with anticipation though!

Too easy mate. I suspect with those priorities, you're biggest issue is going to be whittling down selections as you'll have plenty of options. Being in the US sourcing should not be a problem - well, with the innernet, sourcing really isn't a problem anyway but you have the benefit of it likely being cheaper on the postage side of things.

I think the area you'll have the main issues with the priorities you've listed (low maintenance, durability, functionality) will be in the battery and electrics/wiring 'categories'. Please bare in mind I'm a relative newb here myself and there are far more qualified and experienced people who can comment on this...but from a personal perspective, it's the battery and wiring that I feel will take some time and effort to make as slick and idiot proof as possible (direct plug in charging hopefully with balancing, minimal spaghetti junction of wires, throttle interfaces, controller integration etc.) as well as robust.

Good luck

 

[Kent]

it's the battery and wiring that I feel will take some time and effort to make as slick and idiot proof as possible (direct plug in charging hopefully with balancing, minimal spaghetti junction of wires, throttle interfaces, controller integration etc.) as well as robust.

Re bike wiring: as someone who went through the "one more thing" with electrical tape and crimp-on connectors at the kitchen table for months, I couldn't agree more. If I were to do it again, I would sit down and carefully sketch it all out with measured wire runs with determined wire gauge and colors, places where they can be gathered and run together in a sheath, type of waterproof permanent connectors, hook up to dc/dc and charging port, etc. It should be assembled off the bike and installed as a one piece harness so as to be maintenance free, discrete and professional like everything else this thread is striving for.

So with some thought and planning, It wouldn't hurt to have a look at how motorcycle/scooter manufactures and the aftermarket do it. For example, ...

And if you do end up with a high quality finished product designed specifically for that frame, with everything to proper length, neat quality fastenings, not zip ties, without any extra long length droops of wire or spliced in wiring to make up for short runs typical of universal kits, then that would indeed be admirable and could be marketable.

I've seen alot of innovative, downright fun and funky lighting solutions here, but in keeping with the build standard of this thread, I would go with not only current motorcycle lighting standards but also approved lighting equipment. Here in the states we have DOT rating for light fixtures as well as tires, etc. it is usually marked right on the fixture. I am sure Down Under has something similar and is worth checking into. Being in compliance opens up higher resell value as the option of passing inspection for getting your plate and insurance is there if you, or the subsequent owner, choose to pursue it.

However, here in the USA while the aftermarket is flooded with LED auto lighting, it has not yet made it to full DOT approval. So those low draw state of the art lights which are ideal for us may not yet pass inspection.
My 2c.