Aerodynamics of world record HPV

A small flashing light is probably more visable from a distance & would be easyer to make aerodynamic. I can't find it now but it seems they outlawed the continuos flasing headlight option on motorcycles in my state. but school busses & bicycles still have the flashing option & I know it is very visable.
 
The aerodynamic strobe mast has been done, but Bob Stuart himself has told me it was a waste of time. Much better to just put marker lights on the surface like a transport truck, only of course, you'd put them on the top, embed them for aerodynamics, and flash.

:)ensen.

CC1.jpg
 
The main reasons that a traditional bike are as safe as they are, is:

-Very quick handling
-Incredibly good personal visibility, particularly when approaching and crossing intersections. Try edging across a blind intersection on a recumbent where your head is 3 feet farther back. Same reason why it's hard to do the same in a car.
-You're also higher up, so you can see better in that way
-Easily able to turn head to check traffic behind and alongside. Doing this on a recumbent is much harder.

These are some very critical things when it comes to riding a bike safely. you can avoid so much when you are attentively riding a standard bike. Being in a low streamliner will reduce much of the above, increasing the danger IMO. The only time I rode a recumbent, I couldn't imagine trying to navigate across a busy road on it, or mix through 3 lanes of high speed traffic to make a left. On my road bike, I can do so much more. I can just about ride as if no one sees me (except for assuming that cars approaching from behind will give me room on a tight road).

I'd love to have a recumbent, I just wouldn't dare ride it in the city or near much traffic.
 
I have to agree with veloman on this. Even tho I would love to have transportation like I have seen in this thread, in my world where I live with extreemly heavy traffic and multiple lanes, I would be dead before you could do any theory testing on why I wasn't seen. For that matter, they may have seen me and didnt want me to take up space on "their" road.
 
Maybe the ideal practical thing would be like the Citron a French car that could be raised up for heavy traffic and slower speeds or lowered for more gas kilometers. Of coarse you could raise a sail at higher speeds so that you could be seen - as long as it was not by the cops - they would really commit you to an old folks home!
 
After being a passenger in friends/family members cars for the past week, I came to the conclusion that it's a miracle I've never been hit by a car, while road biking.

The majority of drivers don't belong on the road. Even the 'good' ones get distracted all the time.

I almost got T-boned when my mom pulled out in front of a car last night. I yelled WAIT!, yet she still went in front of the other other car. She can't even drive a tight curve without crossing the yellow line, on a blind corner. WTF.
 
veloman said:
After being a passenger in friends/family members cars for the past week, I came to the conclusion that it's a miracle I've never been hit by a car, while road biking.

The majority of drivers don't belong on the road. Even the 'good' ones get distracted all the time.

I almost got T-boned when my mom pulled out in front of a car last night. I yelled WAIT!, yet she still went in front of the other other car. She can't even drive a tight curve without crossing the yellow line, on a blind corner. WTF.

I'm afraid I have to agree with you guys there...

I've been in a car with someone who took a right turn onto the wrong side of the road and then proceeded to drive along in the oncoming lane until I (rather bewilderedly) pointed it out to them - they made the excuse that they weren't familiar with the area (!!) then proceeded to take a left onto a major road and drove a couple of kilometres straddling two lanes... I was too embarrassed to say anything at that point :oops:

I've been cleaned up by a car making a right turn without giving way, a car entering a roundabout without giving way, and a car (literally) speeding past me before slamming on the brakes and turning left into a driveway, and had numerous close calls with inattentive drivers. (For the benefit of US readers, we drive on the left here, so just swap 'left' and 'right' in the preceding sentence for a better idea.)

It seems that most of the time, car drivers can see only what is on the road, in the same lane, directly in front of them - not including things slightly to the side, like cyclists in a bike lane or even not centrally positioned in the lane - and even then you take your chances. I blame it on TV and computers :wink: - they train people to ignore anything in their peripheral vision, and the accompanying lack of exercise leads to an inability to turn the neck...

I like the idea of the dual-height HPV - it wouldn't be too hard to hinge the body and seat of an HPV in the middle to provide an upright riding position for visibility (both seeing more and being seen, which are often confused in these discussions), with a riding position like the Drymer pictured earlier (re-pictured below), and then lower it down to a more Vector / Go-One / Overzealous riding position for speed and stability.

1Drymer3GI.jpg
 
madact said:
I blame it on TV and computers :wink: - they train people to ignore anything in their peripheral vision, and the accompanying lack of exercise leads to an inability to turn the neck...
A friend of mine also has a theory that many younger drivers have been taught to drive by Nintendo, in games such as Grand Theft Auto and the like. :lol: He might be right, the way I see them go around here.

In my very short rides today, of about 30 minutes total, doing watt measurments and the like on DGA, I saw two near accidents. One of them there was a police SUV *right there* and they did not even attempt to go after the speeding and dangerously-maneuvering driver (nor did he appear to call it in, during the 30 or 40 seconds he was still in my view). That driver ran a stop sign, going *around* the police SUV waiting to turn there, and almost hit several vehicles that were westbound on Northern Ave., who managed to brake and dodge (barely) while he barreled around the corner and onto Northern, heading west. I'm just glad I wasn't anywhere in front of this guy.

The second one was almost at the end of my ride, where someone again barrelled thru a stop sign, with traffic coming, and then proceeded to do a U turn right in front of more oncoming traffic approaching that sign (but slowing down already for the stop or he would have been hit by them), then he barrelled BACK THRU the same stop sign without stopping, and gunned his engine at what sounded like full throttle, easily going double the 25MPH speed limit, possibly more, by the time he was far enough away for me to be unable to judge that sort of thing.

At least a handful of others did stupid things like pull backwards out of their driveways without looking, slam on their brakes with the car halfway in the road (with the driver positioned over teh sidewalk), then back very slowly the rest of the way out now that traffic stopped to avoid hitting them. THat happened twice, and I usually see it at least once on every trip I make no matter where I go in the valley, usually several times. I'm so used to seeing it I almost don't think anything of it.

"Stoptional" right turns on red or at stop signs is another big big problem, and I see a fair number of collisions caused by it, but none of the ones doing it today got hit.

People turning into gated apartments have a common problem: the ungated area is only big enough for one car length, so that one car can pull in, key their entry number, and go. The gates close VERY fast on many of these, so that a car following behind cannot get in without at least scraping their paint and potentially destroying the gate or the side of their car (or both). Often, a car will pull in, and a car behind them (naturally with no signal going, since I often find I am the only person on the road using them) pulls partway past them and then hangs a sharp right, so that they are sticking out at an angle pointing *back* into traffic, blocking most of the righthand lane. But the problem is that when they keep going before turning,the person behind them doesn't know they're going to, and continues at full speed down the road.

That doesn't usually result in a collision, but sometimes the resulting swerve *around* the pulling-in vehicle *does* result in a head-on collision with traffic in the opposite lane, since many of these entrances are on narrow streets with little room for error.

Another popular thing to do on multilane roads where there are at least two lanes heading in the same direction on the apartment gate side, is for the person wanting into the gated area to be in the lane farthest from the sidewalk, and suddenly swerving across traffic to get in there, almost always with no signal beforehand. Poeple are so used to it that again it does not usually result in collisions, just angry shouts, horns, and the occasional gun-waving.

I'm so used to it that I always slow down when approaching apartments, so that I can slam on the brakes when they do this, because I know they do not see me in the bike lane, and probably wouldn't care if they did.

But having a dual-height vehicle might be nice, for situations where they might actually notice it. :)

Oh, and roundabouts--many people here drive around them the wrong way to make left turns, because they don't understand the concept, despite the big signs with the picture showing how to go around it....
 
amberwolf said:
madact said:
I blame it on TV and computers :wink: - they train people to ignore anything in their peripheral vision, and the accompanying lack of exercise leads to an inability to turn the neck...
A friend of mine also has a theory that many younger drivers have been taught to drive by Nintendo, in games such as Grand Theft Auto and the like. :lol: He might be right, the way I see them go around here.

Being one of those "younger drivers" who played waaay too much Need For Speed at high school, I can tell you it's not far off, I'm just glad that as a cyclist from a young age I have had more experience with the reality of traffic and the potential dangers. Kids can easily tell the difference between fantasy and reality in computer games (I seriously disagree with the no-violent-video-games crowd), but I'm not so sure they can so easily distinguish between prudent and reckless driving habits... I'm not the reckless type myself, but earlier on when I got my licence, even I've gone out bush in a beater and driven it hard myself - never in an urban area or even a populated country area, and always within the speed limit (100kph on a windy dirt track is just asking for it), but I can certainly understand the temptation. It's not that people don't know the risks in theory, it just doesn't seem that dangerous from the safety of the interior of a car.

amberwolf said:
In my very short rides today, of about 30 minutes total, doing watt measurments and the like on DGA, I saw two near accidents. One of them there was a police SUV *right there* and they did not even attempt to go after the speeding and dangerously-maneuvering driver (nor did he appear to call it in, during the 30 or 40 seconds he was still in my view). That driver ran a stop sign, going *around* the police SUV waiting to turn there, and almost hit several vehicles that were westbound on Northern Ave., who managed to brake and dodge (barely) while he barreled around the corner and onto Northern, heading west. I'm just glad I wasn't anywhere in front of this guy.

You'd get the book thrown through you if you tried that here - you must have some pretty slack cops...

amberwolf said:
Another popular thing to do on multilane roads where there are at least two lanes heading in the same direction on the apartment gate side, is for the person wanting into the gated area to be in the lane farthest from the sidewalk, and suddenly swerving across traffic to get in there, almost always with no signal beforehand. Poeple are so used to it that again it does not usually result in collisions, just angry shouts, horns, and the occasional gun-waving.

Yikes! Sure, that kind of turn sometimes happens here, but it ain't the norm by any means... as for whether deadly weapons would be brandished in the general direction of the offender, well, I suppose that depends on the district, but it doesn't seem it would be that likely even if guns were more common...

amberwolf said:
Oh, and roundabouts--many people here drive around them the wrong way to make left turns, because they don't understand the concept, despite the big signs with the picture showing how to go around it....

:shock: ...

Around here we bitch about drivers that don't understand the concept of using indicators to signal when they exit a roundabout, and use their right indicator all the while when turning right (think left for US) instead of the proper proceedure of indicating right on approach / no indicator while on the roundabout / left to exit ... what you describe is, umm, something of a foreign concept...
 
Between that poor guy being killed on the bike on TrafficCam and Amberwolfs assessment of Phoenix drivers I will stay here at home, thanks. I believe that low recumbents are a problem and I have one. The difficulty is being able to see over stuff. We have "bluehairs" driving 80 Buicks who can barely see over the steering wheel and they are a menace to local bike riders including my wife and myself. That Drymer is a great idea but it is simply not availible. Many drivers in the South are polite but inept. At least they don't seem to go after us personally. I had the fortune of being trained at Lime Rock SCCA school before I even had a drivers license and that experience has served me well through the years. I think the video games coupled with bike riding can be an excellent teacher for the real world, but nothing replaces experience to be either a good driver or a safe bike rider.
otherDoc
 
purplepeopledesign said:
Wow! You guys live in some screwed up places.

:)ensen.

Agreed. I'd end up shooting someone or just not riding. Someone passed me to immediately right cross me just once, and I followed his ass home and gave him an earful. Needlessly to say he'll be more careful around cyclists, and since I'm so obvious on these roads, I doubt the little jerk would even have the nerve to pass when he sees it's me. He shouldn't anyway, because I'm already going an appropriate speed for a car on the roads I ride, and I go out of my way not to inconvenience motorists.

Doc,
Like you wife, I don't see how you can handle riding so low. My bike is low for an upright, but very frequently I have to stand up at stop signs to verify that the coast is clear. Those intersections with parked cars along the side of the road would be impossible on a recumbent.
 
If I had to commute like I used to do with my DF but on the trike I simply would not ride it. The fact that we can ride a lot of "closed course" situations and a bike path makes it much safer and worth doing. Since we can choose our routes we have learned to stay away from most "blind" corners and intersections. The most scary experience we had was during a Homecoming parade where the traffic was blocked and we had to weave in between across a large main street. It is an experience I will not repeat. That said we have never been hit by cars. Our injuries were and are all "self inflicted" by falling off of bikes or trikes.
otherDoc
 
Back
Top