AFT mid drive giant glory 2013

I have recently found some good autopsy pics of the Headway motor that the AFT/EGO/Cyclone uses, and...I have a more favorable opinion of it now. The 24V/36V/48V motors are all the same stator/rotor, just wound with different diameter of wire to change the Kv so they all spin at the same RPMs. From the very beginning, the Cyclone motors have had a temp sensor and power shut-off to protect it, which I much in favor of for everyone. Also, various amp-limits were specified in the different controllers, so the Headway motors could be sold to various power-limited countries, but the controller amps don't appear to have anything to do with the motor.

"Headline non-hub motor, used by Cyclone, AFT, EGO, etc"
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=62589
 
Jesse,

Couple questions for you if you don't mind?

- how do you shift so fast? Are you letting the motor shift for you? If so, how much of throttle is engaged?

- can u provide close up of your controller mounting plate. I might make one this weekend or next. Or might mod the original controller cover.

Thanks,
Drew
 
spinningmagnets said:
The 24V/36V/48V motors are all the same stator/rotor, just wound with different diameter of wire to change the Kv so they all spin at the same RPMs.

Are you sure about this? My understanding was that they were all the same kv. Including the smaller versions of the motor with the internal controller. I thought this fact was the basis for all the complaints about the impossibly high pedal cadence at 48v.
 
drew12345 said:
Jesse,

Couple questions for you if you don't mind?

- how do you shift so fast? Are you letting the motor shift for you? If so, how much of throttle is engaged?

- can u provide close up of your controller mounting plate. I might make one this weekend or next. Or might mod the original controller cover.

Thanks,
Drew

Hey Drew,
I just shift the same as I would on my dirtbike, I hadn't really thought about it, but I went for a ride tonight to analyse and it goes like this:
Roll on the throttle smoothly, cut the throttle as you click the shifter, and roll on the throttle again. As soon as the motor starts spinning the chain, it shifts in the time before the motor has caught up to the freewheel and started pulling again. The key is the speed that you twist the throttle I think. Too fast and it won't have time to shift without load.
I tried just dropping the throttle back 80% when shifting tonight, so the chain keeps spinning instead of slowing right down when you throttle right off, and it shifts even smoother and faster! Theoretically you only need to throttle back enough to take the load off the gears for optimal shifting. I just like the sound of it when I drop right off the throttle on changes :)

Heres some more pics of my fabricated controller mount, although i'm not sure how useful they'll be, as I had to cut my original mount up to suit the frame (s'bend ones weren't available then). But they might give you some ideas.
IMG_2448.JPG
as you can see from the angle of whats left of the base plate, it was way off for my frame, so I cut a big triangle off the bottom, including most of the controller mount, then made my own. I used 'L' channel from the outside and 'u' channel alloy from the inside to brace the bracket again, and provide a bash/skid surface to hit instead of the controller mount being the lowest point.

IMG_2453.JPG
IMG_2454.JPG
And heres a bit of a drawing of the back of the plate that is hidden behind the controller. The red dots represent roughly where I bolted it. Between the bolts, the angle bends in the alloy, and bolting it onto the bottom (what was left of the more solid controller mount) as well as the sides, it's ended up an extremely rigid mount.
Just pay attention to where you will bolt it onto the main plate. I carefully lined up the holes so I could access the other side to tighten them through the holes in the sprocket.
mount pic.jpg

Hope it helps.
You might also notice I swapped out the original moly oil for "Amsoil 'severe gear' 75-90wt". I pulled the gearbox apart a few weeks ago just to have a look, after seeing another user had had gear failure after 6 months hard use, and was pleased to see no wear in there. The moly oil that comes in the kit was pretty thick viscosity though, and whilst it seems to do a good job, I like Amsoil, I've used it in stuff for years, and even though molybdenum grease in an oil carrier should be excellent, I figure top quality gear oil designed for motorcycles/cars should be sweet too.
I don't know whether it's just in my mind or not, but the motor feels snappier and like it revs easier with the lighter oil in there. I'll pull it down after another 6-700km and see if there's any noticeable wear difference.
 
Wow, thanks for the pics and details. It's very helpful. Yeah, that's really cool how you shift. I'm always scared of mangling the chain so I pedal when I'm shifting. I will give that a go. And thanks for tip on the oil. I will look into that.
 
Are you sure about this?

I am not sure, but based on reading, I had been given that impression. I am happy to collect any accurate information I can, and then add it to the reference. The factory/retailers have been unhelpful with data (perhaps the retailers don't know and don't care). Does anyone have the true Kv of a given voltage of Headway motor? Do you have a link to an owner with first-hand experience with any two of the 24V / 36V / 48V Headways for comparison?

I would also like to acquire the exact dimensions of the stator, if possible. Thanks in advance...
 
I don't want to hijack anyones thread so have started a new one which will be my journey toward an AFT bike.

If you'd like to help I'd appreciate it.

I am having trouble with understanding compatability or how to find a dh bike that is in my $2k price range.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=63332

let us know what bottom bracket type you have on your aft...
thanks
 
Hey Jesse. I tried to PM you but it's not showing in my Sent box so not sure what's going on. So, going to post here. I'm going to order the same battery you bought. Any details that I should tell him other than below? Anything you did custom?

Samsung 29e cells, 40a continuous BMS, 50.4v nominal voltage (58.8v full charge), 19.25ah, pre-charge connector plug (to prevent spark/arc on connection). The dimensions and weight are 138x276x75mm, 5.19kg.
 
Hey Drew and John,
Yeah that info should cover it Drew, i just told em3ev what amps i needed and what motor i had after talking to AFT and that was what Paul came up with for me. It took a few weeks to build and ship.

John, it was about $1200au for the battery, charger and a Cycle Analyst including shipping. I think the CA was a couple of hundred out of that. Not cheaper than lipos, but with the mucking around wiring, setting up a BMS, making a case, making a precharge plug, charging and balancing hassles, lipo volatility (they tend to catch fire in a big way if crushed, shorted etc), not to mention the same maH in lipo would have been a fair bit heavier.
If you can afford it I'd recommend the em3ev option.

On a side note, ive got a CA v2 with remote shunt, brand new in box if anyones interested.
It took a few weeks to get the remote shunt, by that time i'd done a couple of hundred km and deemed it unnecessary.
 
Thanks Jesse. Sorry, couple more questions because I'm ordering this week. I notice on his website there is 22ah option. Any reason you went with lesser 19.25 ah?

What do you think about the 20r cells? I see in my metrics that I sometimes I hit 60 amp burst for steep hills. Didn't know if 29e can do short burst over 40 amps.
 
No worries Drew,
The 29e cells can take .3c discharge for burst loads, which with my pack (19.25ah -typo) is 59.75 amps, a 22ah would be better, as mine is probably pushing the limits (although i dialled back the battery power and motor power 5 or 10% with the kelly program just to keep it from stressing, i dont like running electrics at max load. With 22ah ya should be safe). The 20r cells would be better as far as amps go, it'll just be a bigger heavier pack for the same Ah i think? Been a while since i looked, but i think that was the reason i went for the 29e instead.
Edit- check page 2 of this thread for the full specs on the 29e cells from samsung. 22ah would be fine for 66amp bursts, and i expect their 3c rating would be fairly conservative as a guarenteed safe limit- dont quote me on that though ;)
 
dypsomaniart said:
"E-bike at mt dandy"
I can tell he rode down some super steep stuff can tell from how fast the bike was going downhill and taking air, but going up that steep part wasn't recorded or maybe I missed it somehow. the start looked of the recording he said super steep but the recording only showed a short bit of steep stuff before zig zagging up the mountain on less steep stuff quite slowly. My hub would do that much faster

Im not here to argue hubs are better just curious to get info before potentially spending a great deal of money on something that is not much better than what I have now.

Did he have to stop to get to the summit? there were cuts in the video a few places wonder if they were motor cool down pit stops. My understanding is that there is a controller 100 degree limit and cut out on the kelly which is not a motor temp cut. would the motor go before the controller? or does as mentioned earlier the aft motor have motor cut to protect...?

else where I read that you bent cooling fins which makes me now rethinking getting the version with holes = being weaker.

found in your vid
[youtube]wnwvBOb-cHQ[/youtube]
the ride is totally silent = were you just pedalling? in the second half I could hear the motor maybe the camera could pick it up better? or the last section was uphill, I hate how gopro somehow seems to flaten out ground.

When I fly over humps and jumps I don't release throttle on hub as it revs up the motor to keep climbing the next climb, do you have to release throttle over a jump with a mid drive? I imagine that the play of the chain at full rpm could snap it or something....
 
My hub would do that much faster

Im not here to argue hubs are better just curious to get info before potentially spending a great deal of money on something that is not much better than what I have now.

Say If you have 2 bikes one that has a 5kw hub motor and one that has a 2.5kw mid drive and a steep hill that the 5kw bike can Just climb.

IF the hub motor has enough power to get up the hill without bogging down then you will probably get up the hill twice as fast as the mid drive. But also if for this same hill it is just at the limit of heat the hub motor can handle it would either bog down or melt the windings. Whereas the mid drive would be able to go up an even steeper hill using the gears but at a slower speed.

So speed getting up the hill is not what advantage you get with a mid drive, but the benefit would be efficiency and you can have a lot smaller lighter motor and lighter batteries,more range on the same bike and batteries . And also you would be able to climb steeper hills but at a slower speed.
 
Like Gab said above.
You'll be able to go faster downhill and steeper but slower uphill.
If it shuts down due to temp, you were trying to go too fast uphill; a couple of gears closer to granny and it wont strain/lug and overheat. Use granny from the start and it wont strain at all, and use hardly any power/battery, but will be slow.

For my video, the motor was used the whole time, you just cant hear it until its under fair load with that camera in the case. Whilst it might have looked fairly flat, that video has climbing between 9-15% inclines, thats where you actually hear the motor.

Dont keep the throttle on in the air with a mid drive, you'll probably snap the rear chain.
 
Cool guys - Ive also spent quite a few back and forth with Jim these days, I think I have run out of questions :D

As with my hub bike = I hate the CA but found it valuable for heat display, now with a motor and controller which automatically cut out I dont need the thermal readings enough to warrant that big ugly thing on the dash and 20 wires poking out of it. Jims got thermo wire to ca but I dont think Ill get it....

anyways out of breath...
 
ok no idea which version this guy is using but thats pretty dam loud. dypso drew do yours sound that loud? its hard gauge by so many videos no info bout whats on it... shroud or not ceramic bearings but if you guys say yes it sounds like that .... mmmm bit too loud to ride

[youtube]JFMZi7ToumE[/youtube]
 
John, i put a sound test vid up recorded on the bars with the iphone a few posts back. Theyre not noisy. Noisier than your hub, but you cant have everything. Buy a bbs if you want quiter. I cant hear mine over wind noise at 30kmh+ unless im pulling up a hill.

Mike, cheers man, its a cheap ebay imitation gopro strapped to my helmet. Not bad video, but the extra weight of it on my head gives me a headache/neckache on decent rides. Summers just kicking in here so i'll try to get some video on some good tracks soon, that was just bashing around the bush around home.
 
John Bozi said:
ok no idea which version this guy is using but thats pretty dam loud. dypso drew do yours sound that loud? its hard gauge by so many videos no info bout whats on it... shroud or not ceramic bearings but if you guys say yes it sounds like that .... mmmm bit too loud to ride

[youtube]JFMZi7ToumE[/youtube]
That would be me,there are no sound deadening covers on at that time and the go pro had no cover on.
It is considerably quieter now.
darren
 
have watched every vid I can find on youtube dypso including your hi tech phone. :lol:

Darren thanks for your video and dood you ride dangerously in traffic as someone posted you should leave a car doors length away from parked cars and that dood reversing off was a close all.

thanks for the info that you were not using the shroud at that time. If you were I think I was about to rethink everything if you were and yes your video had the clearest sound for the said reason of no cover I really like vids like that very informative for potential buyers.

I reckon going past cops at higher than bicycle speeds is a give away that something is not legal but with the added sound they are already all turning around with perked up ears before you even are near them.

I can handle half of that sound ....

yes dypso im getting all the mods
 
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