All Cell Battey
- Thread starter Lee123
- Start date
mikebikerad
1 kW
ebikessf sells them so they must be worthwhile, new 4c batch might exist in future which would be a big improvement.
wesnewell
100 GW
Unusable for more than 20A, 25A burst. Expensive, very expensive. 48V 13ah pack is $700, and I think thats only 13s, so only 625wh. My 888wh rc lipo pack was ~$300 shipped.
dogman dan
1 PW
I haven't tested one. Said to be a good chemistry, light and small size. Cost is high, but not considering it's shipped from a USA address. The main issue is the low c rate, so if you are looking for more than stock kit 20 amp controllers, you need a huge size to provide it.
So good for powering an 800w kit, but not as good for a 1500w one.
So good for powering an 800w kit, but not as good for a 1500w one.
icecube57
10 MW
Again... something more capable can be made for less and you get more.
I tell you one pack they need to bring back was the one juiced riders had.
I tell you one pack they need to bring back was the one juiced riders had.
Jason27
10 kW
Allcell makes very reliable batteries. They are super light too not like lifepo4 which is much heavier. I have had my pack for over a year now. Works great. I ride to work everyday . I am using a 25 amp 36 volt setup. I got my pack from Chicago electric bikes.
My views you get what you pay for. Their are batteries from asia that are cheaper but are less reliable. Overall Allcell packs are very good deal. Plus you're employing Americans when you buy from them.
My views you get what you pay for. Their are batteries from asia that are cheaper but are less reliable. Overall Allcell packs are very good deal. Plus you're employing Americans when you buy from them.
wesnewell
100 GW
I hear they get their batteries from Asia too. They just assemble the packs in the US.
Jason27
10 kW
I think so. But even assembled in USA is still employing American workers.
More discussion in these threads:
Lots:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=35096
a little:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=42285
Lots:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=35096
a little:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=42285
icecube57
10 MW
Low power 20A bike i will be all for this but you know good and well that once that fever hits... you begin to think damn i just dropped 800 bucks on something that is useless to me now. I want more power and speed from a pack that simply can throw down. Lipo or some other lithum chemistry would have been a much better choice. Shoot for the price i would have pimped a headway pack atleast they are slightly more capeable 2-3c vs this pack. 16 headway cells for 25 a pop... and im being generous is 400 bucks. add the cables balance taps and an rc charger and PSU you are at 550. You have a much better pack you can pound on and grow into with controller upgrades. Headways are modular. Add more cells if you want more voltage. If you can avoid a BMS to that would be awesome.
Ive never seen anyone series/ parallel a headway pack. How many lives could we have saved if we didnt trust BMS to do the dirty work that 15 seconds of making connections could do.
Then you have the crowd that just wants something to work 2 wires is all they want to see... I pity the fool. I embrace my manhood and like complicated things. Where is that lipo picture that shows the difference between batteries and chemistries. I think someone should creat a visual chart that rates batteries on capeability and price and overall ease of use. I just hate seeing people wast money.
Ive never seen anyone series/ parallel a headway pack. How many lives could we have saved if we didnt trust BMS to do the dirty work that 15 seconds of making connections could do.
Then you have the crowd that just wants something to work 2 wires is all they want to see... I pity the fool. I embrace my manhood and like complicated things. Where is that lipo picture that shows the difference between batteries and chemistries. I think someone should creat a visual chart that rates batteries on capeability and price and overall ease of use. I just hate seeing people wast money.
Jason27
10 kW
Ice.. where do you get "800 bucks" from?
Just wondering.
Just wondering.
icecube57
10 MW
http://www.e-bikekit.com/shop/catalog/E_Bike_Batteries_Chargers-2-1.html
http://www.ebikessf.com/catalog/33
http://www.ebikessf.com/catalog/33
Jason27
10 kW
Wow. Ok that's not what I paid for my pack. Chi electric bikes sells them for much less.
Jeremy Harris
100 MW
Jason27 said:
Why would all the many hundreds (maybe thousands) of us on here who don't happen to live in America think that this was something positive? For example, for most of here who are in Europe or Australasia sending money to the US is no different to sending it to the Far East.
arkmundi
10 MW
I'd agree with that assessment. I had one of these before trading up to an A123 AMP20 pack that I built for myself. My reasoning factored in "American made" and an ability to easily buy online and get shipment from Chicago, avoiding the gamble of li-ion packs being assembled in and shipment from China. In retrospect, my experience in getting such a shipment (Victpower) was a great deal more benign and friendly than what I experienced with Chicago/AllCell.neptronix said:
arkmundi
10 MW
Jeremy Harris said:
It is and should be about a local economy, no matter where you are. By doing A123, I'm supporting the Massachusetts economy more than anything else, so yea, figured that into the equation. By building it myself, I employed radically local. :lol:
Jeremy Harris
100 MW
arkmundi said:
I partially agree, but would hesitate to suggest that buying locally should be sort of enforced or overly encouraged. A large part of market price reduction comes from competition, and there are definite benefits from encouraging this to a degree. For example, without the innovation and cheap manufacturing base that the Chinese have contributed I doubt we'd have any ebike motors, or if we did they'd be prohibitively expensive. The fact that the Chinese started manufacturing millions of motors to feed their local very high volume bicycle market made motors and other parts available to us that would never have been viable to develop and get to market in the west.
On a separate note, I think that by buying A123 you're probably also supporting the Chinese and Korean economies (and that in Michigan, maybe), as apart from the recent cash injection to A123 by the Chinese, much of their cell production has been done in China and Korea for a fair time. I guess as MIT probably gets royalties on the IP, and their HQ still employs a few people there there will be some benefit to Massachusetts, but this is probably modest within the scale of A123's business as a whole.
arkmundi
10 MW
Perhaps before openning the Lenova, MI factory. My cells are stamped "made in the USA" and that's absolutely true. The DOE/ARPA-E grants targeted job creation in the US, so no doubt there's an attempt to shift Li-ion production back. MIT research, Massachusetts corporate headquarters, cells made in MI. No way to bring it closer than that my friend.Jeremy Harris said:
Jeremy Harris
100 MW
arkmundi said:
The company is still, effectively, 80% Chinese owned, though, so although there will be some employment benefits in countries outside China for a while I strongly suspect that eventually the bulk of production will shift back towards the Far East, unless something happens to change the economic balance in the mean time. I also suspect that much of the injection of US government cash into A123 will turn out to have been wasted, in terms of developing a US-based company. Time will tell, but for now I just can't see how countries in the West can compete in this type of manufacturing business, at least until labour costs start to rise within China, as they are bound to given the rapid increase in consumer demand taking place there.
The fingers
10 TW
I don't think we have any factories which employ 49,000 people.
scotticeberg
10 W
- Joined
- May 4, 2011
- Messages
- 91
I think you mean Livonia, Michigan.
It's nice to buy something assembled by westerners for once, but let's be honest about the product itself. This is a pack full of 1C Panasonic UR18650F cells wrapped in a waxlike material which is used for thermal buffering/dissipation, which prevents these cells from basically self-immolating under a 2C load. You maybe technically be able to pull 2C out of these packs but performance will be SLA-level laughable or worse.
In reality, these cells would perform best at 0.5C-1C. I've shown the datasheet of how saggy these laptop cells are before.
On top of that, Sanyo's old datasheets for the cell ( yes, Panasonic bought their battery business ) has this cell rated at 500 cycles at something like 1C at perfect room temperature. It's remarketed as a 2C battery with a 700-2000 cycle lifespan.
If you are looking to buy one of the huge size batteries and you have a wimpy controller, one of these may work well for you, but they would be rather expensive. Say you have a 20 amp controller, you'd want something like the 26 amp battery, and at 36v that would come in at $1,300
For reference, my 20AH 36v RC Lipo battery cost me all of ~$400 and a 20AH ping battery would cost you $518 plus shipping.
In reality, these cells would perform best at 0.5C-1C. I've shown the datasheet of how saggy these laptop cells are before.
On top of that, Sanyo's old datasheets for the cell ( yes, Panasonic bought their battery business ) has this cell rated at 500 cycles at something like 1C at perfect room temperature. It's remarketed as a 2C battery with a 700-2000 cycle lifespan.
If you are looking to buy one of the huge size batteries and you have a wimpy controller, one of these may work well for you, but they would be rather expensive. Say you have a 20 amp controller, you'd want something like the 26 amp battery, and at 36v that would come in at $1,300
For reference, my 20AH 36v RC Lipo battery cost me all of ~$400 and a 20AH ping battery would cost you $518 plus shipping.
