Almost saw a murder yesterday.

dogman dan

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May 17, 2008
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Las Cruces New Mexico USA
Wierdness. I was riding down the freeway frontage road on a roketta 150cc scooter, on the way to sell it off. Just perefer the ebikes. Feel safer on bike routes than out in the traffic on big streets. So on the freeway I see a guy nonchalantly cruising along on his harley, helmetless. And he passes on ahead. 1 mile further, I enter the freeway to acess the bridge across another freeway and cross into town on main street. Getting on, the freeway ends and there is the first light on mainstreet. The light seems slow today, and 30 seconds later all the ambulance, police, and fire trucks start arriving. 5 min later I finally creep by there's the harley dude. He's getting cpr from guys that have that look, ya know, we're doing this but it's not working. Lady out of the car doing the screamer face, hands on cheeks and like this :shock: .

Poor guy, he'd stopped in the line for the light, and the next car just sandwiched him. Humogous V in the hood of the car that hit him. :cry: I figured he was dead for sure, but I haven't seen him on the news yet. So maybe he did survive. But he sure was hugged up.

Just so weird, to see that on the way to selling off our bike. Selling mostly because we thought it was not so safe to ride compared to the ebike.
 
Probably on a frickin cell phone. We just had a bit on the news last night. Said average time for a text 4 -1/2 sec. which at 60 mph. is like a football field not watching the road. Kid says Oh, I am a good driver. They put him in a simulator and texted him and then after said , So how did you do. He's like uh I killed someone.. :shock: My 17 yo daughter watched this bit intently. She is one of the safest drivers when I am with her but she is starting to get pretty confident behind the wheel and go a little fast .. Oh to be a dad :( :?
 
For two years my only transportation was a Honda 250. When coming to a stop in a line of cars, I quickly learned to slide just alongside the car in front of me. If there was enough room between the cars (with protruding mirrors) I would creep up to the front.
 
I rarely drive my 250 scooter any more. I just don't trust traffic without a safety cage after being hit by a cadillac on my last motorcycle. Much better to take side streets and sidewalks on my ebike.
 
years ago I had a Yamaha RD 350. Came up to a stop sign. Cross traffic didn't have to stop. We had a line of cars and me trying to get on the cross street. When my turn came to be at the front, I stopped. The car behind me didn't.
I was vaulted out over my handlebars and hit the road running. Took me 75 feet to stop. Fortunately there was no cross traffic at that moment. If I would have been killed it would have called manslaughter because the lack of intent.

My first "car" was this bike. This lesson and others like have taught me that EVERYONE is out to kill me.
A fast e-bike that we can take on paths or back roads might be a little safer but always remember EVERYONE is trying to kill you and you must be ready for THEM!

The Harley dude seems not to have been ready.
 
The law wouldn't call it murder but I do. No helmet didn't help the guy any, but when you stop at a light and get creamed by a car that doesn't stop it's a murdercycle. When you get drunk, and helmet or no helmet, fly off the road at 90 mph, it's a suicidecycle. Pretty hard though, to do much to avoid a sandwiching when you have stopped.

I have two peeves about motorcycles. One is no helmet. The other is cars that don't look out the front window much.

My wife and I have both been sandwiched at at stop lights by other cars. No big deal, the car gets bent a bit. But when it gets done to a motorcycle it's soooo much worse. People drive thier cars like anything that could happen is no big deal. But for a bike, it's a huge deal.
 
I get pissed when someone tail gates me in a car when I'm on a motorcycle. To me thats attempted murder. A motorcycle can stop three times faster than a car which makes stopping quickly one of its best defenses but being tailgated kinda negates that.
 
Yeah that's not murder, it's manslaughter. It is still a pity. I don't know why car drivers don't pay attention to that little stuff that can be a huge deal, like a motorcycle. I used to drive a 300 cc but all the idiot drivers off the world made me reconsider my options so now I drive a car.
 
i almost took a benz up the 'rear wheel' a couple days ago... cop on foot stopping traffic. i stopped but dude behind me came screaming up, leaning on his horn the whole time, until he saw the cop. wondered what would happen if rear-ended... the harley is so heavy it wouldn't flip, you figure? but a bike, seems like a car hitting it would simulate a wheelie and the biker would hit his back on the car's hood and get a nasty whiplish along w/ god knows what other injuries?

on a slightly different topic, cars expect me to behave like a slow cyclist and try to pass. what seems most common is when they see me come up on them (blinkey in the rear view) and they keep watching me and forget to keep their eyes up ahead. i can't tell you how many times i've passed along side a car and it almost plowed the one in front...
 
Yeah guys, it's a war zone out there. The rule is that you always keep an eye on your mirrors or turn your head to watch traffic behind you if you are waiting at a light. I do this without though when I'm biking, and I always have an escape route. You've got to be very defensive, otherwise you lose.

As dorky as they are, I am about to put left mirrors on my bikes. (Justin in his xc trip, mentioned how valuable they are to make sure the approaching car is giving you enough room. If they are about to hit you, you are always better off jumping off the road as long as there is no wall or cliff there). My only concern is with vehicles from behind. I've outmaneuvered tons of hairy situations when they come from the front. You've got to anticipate what drivers will likely do too.
 
veloman said:
Yeah guys, it's a war zone out there. The rule is that you always keep an eye on your mirrors or turn your head to watch traffic behind you if you are waiting at a light. I do this without though when I'm biking, and I always have an escape route. You've got to be very defensive, otherwise you lose.

As dorky as they are, I am about to put left mirrors on my bikes. (Justin in his xc trip, mentioned how valuable they are to make sure the approaching car is giving you enough room. If they are about to hit you, you are always better off jumping off the road as long as there is no wall or cliff there). My only concern is with vehicles from behind. I've outmaneuvered tons of hairy situations when they come from the front. You've got to anticipate what drivers will likely do too.

Exactly the approach I use though when moving I'm going faster, which generally reduces my time exposed to potential mistakes of individual cagers. I am most concerned about them getting me from behind, and I try to avoid placement between the rear bumper of one car and the front bumper of another, since rear ending due to some driver distraction in the trailing car is the most common type of accident. Probably the 2 things making me safer that you guys despite the complete lack of biking infrastructure are the lower speeds of cars, and the preponderance of obstacles in the road (from missing manhole covers to cows, bikes, pedestrians, kids, etc. in the road), which forces drivers to pay close attention while driving. Unlike stateside, driving a car while zoned out on autopilot is impossible on most local roads.

Cell phone use while driving, though illegal, is widespread here, so I just don't allow myself to be positioned where I can become a car sandwich.

Also, if the Harley rider in the OP had a silent electric instead, maybe he would have had enough advance sonic warning to bail out of the way. Of course, he should have seen the car coming in his mirror and flashed his brake lights a few times very early on. Then with proper spacing from the car in front of him, he's got a way out as long as he's paying attention to what's coming. Unfortunately few drive or ride in such a defensive manner, or else insurance rates would be less than half of what they are.

I would have been off to the side out of harm's way. Plus, at the side is the only way I can proceed to the front of the line of stopped cars anyway. When the light turns green and traffic starts moving, then I reclaim my position in the lane depending on the circumstances, but since I boosted current a while back I out accelerate typical cars leaving a light. That puts me out in front with clear space ahead and a growing space behind, nice and safe. 8)
 
I always make it a point to pull up to the right side of the car that I stop behind. I figure at least I would not get smashed between a couple of cars, even though you could still be hit.

The more isolated these people feel in their cars, the more the rest of us are at risk. They need to move the drivers seat to the front of the bumper, then see how many accidents these people get into. :lol:

Deron.
 
It was on Highway 70. The first light on main, as you come down the hill. I didn't mention, it's a notorious light for getting rear ended, coming down a huge hill. The dent on the car was dead center, so the guy was not giving himself a place to go. I've often done the same thing, stopping off to the side some, and having a wheel pointed at the space between the row of cars. Used that space many times, but usually because I couldn't stop. :oops:
 
have y'all seen this one?

http://www.azcentral.com/community/northvalley/articles/2010/03/25/20100325phoenix-motorcycle-crash-abrk.html

If you take rider training seriously you'll learn why they teach to hold the clutch in and pay attention to approaching traffic in the mirrors.

No left mirror on your eBikes? Dorky? Okay, dorky it is...

This is why California allows lane sharing with motorcycles. It's a very good way to avoid being caught from behind waiting at intersections.
 
Being crunched from behind is why I do not use the left turn at the south end of Metrocenter, but instead go thru the parking lot just northwest of it. As dangerous as that can be (people don't stop at the stop signs in the PL either, and drive at road speeds in it), it's still safer than that particular left turn (or the right turn at the same place), because most people approaching that light from Metrocenter just finished shopping or working there, and just want to get home. They are not paying attention to anything except their thoughts of home, dinner, whatever, and sometimes they don't even stop for the light when there is traffic already moving the other way on Dunlap!

I'm surprised that there are not more actual collisions there, rather than just a bunch of close calls. Every time I am at that intersection, I see at least one near-miss, and sometimes several. I'm only there for at most a couple of minutes, once a day, on my way to work, on the other side of that intersection, up to five times a week. Yet I see up to a few dozen "almosts", and once a month or so a crunch either while I'm there or the remains of one that recently happened.

I used to make my left turn there anyway, but the last day I did that was the day a car didnt' even slow down for the red light with cars stopped in all lanes. He finally noticed the light was red and a few tons of metal were in their way, then instead of even touching his brakes, he swerved LEFT around all of the cars, INTO oncoming traffic, who managed to part around him, and he just went thru the intersection anyway. I was amazed that no one hit anyone, because if they had, there would have been deaths for sure.

I was near the front of the line, with a few cars between me and the moron, but if he had hit them going that speed, unless they already saw him coming and held their brakes down hard, they probably would still have been knocked forward hard enough to domino together to crush me against the one in front of me. :( If I had not had a rearview mirror, I wouldn't have even noticed the guy, as I wouldn't have been turning my head that far back around (the road curves) to check for that, especially with all the other cars already stopped behind me. But I did see the motion in the mirror, and then turned and watched (probably slackjawed) as this guy managed to not become the next Darwin award recipient, by some miracle.


Another problem at this particular intersection is that it only allows thru traffic east-west, on Dunlap. On 29th Avenue, you must turn left or right, on either the north or southbound sides. Lots of people, perhaps one every other time I am at that light (meaning probably hundreds per day given how short a time I'm there) will go straight thru, around the barriers to prevent that. Often the police are there but they almost never even attempt to do anything about it, even when it is an extremely dangerous move that could have (almost did) cause an accident or injure someone.

The main problem with the going straight across is that often enough they'll do it while running the red light, too, with pedestrians in the crosswalks. So far I've never seen anyone hit, but I am sure it happens, too.

If I didnt' see the same stuff happen other places, I'd just say that getting close to Metrocenter turns people into morons, because there are just SO MANY incredibly stupid things I see happen there all the time.

(one of my pet peeves is the delivery trucks that park in no-parking zones, and also in no-stopping-any-time zones where it is dangerous to do so, hence the reason for the zones! The police won't do anything about it, and neither will the companies responsible for the trucks and drivers. :()
 
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