Am I going nutz ?

[Harold in CR]

GM is dropping it's Lithium Battery for the E-assist function in the Chevy Malibu. They claim they can get the equivalent amount of energy using a lead acid battery in it's place.

Here is what I don't get. IF you spin a generator of any kind, using an engine, you lose efficiency of energy. (No free lunch).
What the E-assist actually does, is, when you stop the car, the gasoline engine shuts off. Then, when you let off on the brake, the engine starts. Now, you must charge a battery to keep this function going, so, to get better fuel mileage, this E-assist deal is used.

How can this increase mileage ? A lead battery is CHEAPER than Lithium, so that's why the switch. Also, the battery cables used for the lithium battery are heavy, so, the LEAD battery is a lighter weight option ?? Don't need cables ??? AND, saving this weight can allow for you to add the option of text messages that come in and are READ ALOUD to you, while you AIM your car down the road

LINK

 

[meanunclebob]

I must be missing something because I don't get where there's any electrical assistance from your description.

 

[Dauntless]

I can't speak for the Malibu Hybrid specifically, but the general idea is that a gas engine uses gas to idle and it uses more accellerating than at cruise, so the electric powers it to speed. The engine is actually off at what would be the least efficient moment. Many scams were successful with phony high gas mileage carburetors because they would run the car to speed and switch over to the test tank, a car that only had to cruise at speed gets great mileage. People who didn't understand what they were seeing threw away a lot of money investing it them. The electric makes it possible for the gas engine in the hybrid to only run at cruise. The Hondas pull away from a stop and get over 20mph before the engine starts.

As for the lost efficiency, I've wondered. But I'm not one to argue with results, the hybrids obviously work. I'm not sure why the decision to go backward to SLA's. I'm sure overall the SLA's are a bit heavier, but this is a car, not a bike, as well as only enough to get the vehicle moving; the difference will be far less significant.

 

[flathill]

Yes

regen isnt why the prius makes sense

its 10 billion horses galloping in place while stopped in traffic or at lights that is mind blowingly fcukedly nutz

Why the change in heart? It’s largely because the new base powertrain configuration, which includes a revised 2.5-liter four-cylinder and a new start/stop system, offers the nearly the same fuel economy as an eAssist-equipped Chevrolet Malibu. The new 2.5-liter driveline is EPA rated at 25/36 mpg city/highway, and a combined rating of 29 mpg. For reference, the 2013 Malibu Eco hybrid was rated at 25 mpg mpg city, 37 mpg highway, and 29 mpg combined.

Although GM says its experience with the eAssist system helped expedite the development of the 2014 Malibu’s new start/stop system, the two drivelines share no common components and, apart from shutting down the engine when the vehicle comes to a stop, operate completely in completely different manners. The new start/stop system simply stops the engine while continuing to power to the vehicle’s electrical architecture. eAssist did the same, but its motor/generator assembly, which replaced the conventional starter motor, also helped provide a brief boost during hard acceleration.

There’s also a difference in battery configuration as well. The secondary battery in the 2013 Malibu Eco was a large 115-volt lithium-ion pack placed in the trunk, sacrificing nearly two cubic feet of cargo space. In contrast, the 2014 Malibu 2.5’s start-stop system uses a small, 12-volt, motorcycle-grade lead-acid AGM battery, which serves primarily to stabilize voltage while the engine is being restarted, neatly tucks into the trunk’s side wall without encroaching on space.

Better yet, the manufacturing cost for both this battery and the primary battery – a larger AGM unit placed underhood – is far less than the lithium-ion pack, meaning GM can bundle it with the 2014 Malibu as standard equipment on all models, including the entry-level $22,965 2014 Malibu LT.

 

[cal3thousand]

It's just because GM's hybrid drive was shit to begin with. That's why "stop-start" is financially more feasible for them.

Prius' have MANY advantages that make their drivetrains more efficient.

First, with the ingenious way that they use a planetary gear system to integrate battery power with engine power seamlessly.
Secondly, the engine is run on an Atkinson cycle at the expense of power, but with the benefit of increase efficiency over the otto cycle.
Thirdly, they use lower resistance sized tires and a very aerodynamic shape. ALL of which the Malibu doesn't have.

BTW, I loath prii (plural for prius)

 

[Harold in CR]

AHhhhhh, that's what I was thinking all along.

Now, they use a motorcycle sized Lead battery in place of the 115V Lithium pack.

 

[liveforphysics]

Reality = Useful capacity/power lithium battery assemblies cost $$$$. Lead acid costs $.



GM has always been a company that has a history of destroying product quality in exchange for saving a buck. They don't care about your vehicles performance or economy, they care about lining the pockets of the exec's/investors exclusively.

 

[flathill]

Yes the Prius is technically cool (and stupid complex) but what GM is doing perversely will save more gas overall

most buyers in this segment would not have opted for the hybrid

by making it start/stop standard it brings the biggest benefit of a hybrid to all drivers (not using gas stopped in traffic or at a light)

 

[cal3thousand]

Yes the Prius is technically cool (and stupid complex) but what GM is doing perversely will save more gas overall

most buyers in this segment would not have opted for the hybrid

by making it start/stop standard it brings the biggest benefit of a hybrid to all drivers (not using gas stopped in traffic or at a light)

This is true... It will certainly help with their CAFE numbers. Then they can go about continuing to make gas hogs on their other lines.

 

[dogman dan]

I haven't really looked at this, but I had gotten the idea from whatever bullshit I saw on some news show, that this was just a stop the engine at the light technology.

Not a drive the car a few feet thing, just a deal where the cars starter motor starts the car every time you leave a stop light. The last GM product I had, a one ton truck, you could see the gas gage move while sitting at a light. half a gallon gone at a long enough light, literally. I used that truck to haul and recover hot air balloons. So during a flight the chase crew would follow, stopping to wait for the balloon to drift by. On balloon chase, I'd get 2 mpg.

So in some situations, this could be a very good thing to have, but it's not an EV of any kind IMO. They just went back to lead to save a dollar per car.

 

[tomjasz]

GM? People still buy their vehicles? I curse the day Toyota decided to build in America and begin their decline to American quality.

Actually I'm happy to see auto makers build here, just disappointed in the lower quality standards that ensued.

 

[Dauntless]

GM? People still buy their vehicles? I curse the day Toyota decided to build in America and begin their decline to American quality.

Um, are you basing that on the myth that the Japanese cars going back to the dealers had been built in America? Such stories as a test drive where the prospective buyer hears a rattle and says "Let's get rid of this American car and try a Japanese one" actually end with the realization that it WAS a Japanese built Honda/Toyota/Nissan, etc. In fact right away the American plants were having LESS factory defects, not more. Except certain people were determined to keep saying otherwise, without knowing what they were talking about. (A-HEM) People forget it was the GERMAN cars of the 1970's that were killing Detroit. The Japanese cars were merely the cheapest, but not all that big as sellers. And they were RATTLETRAPS. The Accord was what began to change that.

It was Honda who convinced Japanese car makers that building in American was the way to go. They already had a motorcycle plant here, so they added on to it. Honda even exports cars they build here. I know it won't feel hip and trendy to admit that, but us little boys that don't see the Emperors New Clothes aren't much into fashionability.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/28/us-autos-honda-usaexports-idUSBREA0R07620140128

 

[DAND214]

I sure hope they have a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty on the starter and battery.
GM always cuts corners at customers expense, not thiers.

What German car was killing Detroit, VW? Just because they were cheap, not any better. I still won't by a German car. Minute out of warranty they need work, STILL.

Dan

 

[Dauntless]

What German car was killing Detroit, VW?

Castle Wolfsburg in general. Audi, Porsche was doing well, I think the Opel unit of Vauxhall was in Germany, while BMW's weren't expensive back then, Mercedes weren't THAT expensive. . . . But then there were also Saab's, Citroen's and Renault's, some British Leyland products/Britian's export records were set in the 1970's, (We used to get lots of MG's and Triumphs in the U.S.) preYugo Fiat's, Volvo's, the Mercury Capri. . . . If I remember right the Europeans dwarfed the Japanese and were over a third the U.S. market. Nothing is coming up for me in a search. Will I ever feel I have enough brands there?

Every make I just named has huge detractors. (Well, at least Fiat deserves to.) I remember in school the teacher saying "My wife's Rabbit is such a well made car. Nothing like my lousy Japanese beer can Civic."

In England, the best seller was the Ford Cortina, second was the Ford Escort that was the best selling car worldwide, Vauxhall's Viva was fifth, the Capri was eighth, Ford Granada ninth, Chrysler/Talbot Avenger tenth. . . .