Anti Spark

Jonboy

1 kW
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
318
Location
S. Wales
Hi Guys I've just got me new setup running but I'd like to incorporate an anti spark tail lead to plug in to the controller before I whack the andersons together.. I just don't like the "24s arc welding" on start up every time :shock: . So could somebody suggest a suitable value & type of resistor I could use to calm things down :?:

Thanks

Jon
 
precharge.JPG
 
with 24s, i'd use higher ohms even 1000
3-5 watt. sure 150 will work too. anything 150-1000.
i'm thinking of trying a high class LED with R
so the LED dims as it charges up.
way more entertaining!
 
yhst-92821211804676_2259_144595752.gifDSCN0599.JPGJust commenting because I'm having the same issue. I actually melted the prongs in my connector yesterday. I made like a connector adapter for my pack so I could use it on either of my motors. The first time I plugged into the controller it was fine but then the splices I used came loose so I had to re-splice it. When I connected it again it sparked and I thought that was normal but then it wouldn't stop sparking. Apparently I spliced it backwards. So now I'm just using the battery for my newer kit and gave up on the adapter idea. Luckily all I did was damage the connector and not myself or the pack. It still sparks when I connect it but that's because I don't have a switch installed. You could get something like the on off switch that Currie uses. I use one for my front kit and it works fine. You can find them on a couple different scooter parts sellers sites. Try monsterscooterparts.com, electricscooterparts.com or tncscooters.com. Here's a pic of what one looks like.
 
Andersons make it easy to build a deuce and accompanying single connector. I believe this is similar to what EM3EV ships.
Not fancy, but easy and no switch to forget...

SimplePpPrecharge2.png
 
Matt Gruber said:
with 24s, i'd use higher ohms even 1000
3-5 watt. sure 150 will work too. anything 150-1000.
i'm thinking of trying a high class LED with R
so the LED dims as it charges up.
way more entertaining!
I started with a 520 ohm 10W resistor. It still gave a big spark. 2 of them in parallel (260 ohm) still gave a good size spark. 3 of them got just a tiny spark. It was just a big bundle so bought a pack of 10 150 ohm 10w resistors off ebay for about $5 shipped. I've used these with 1500uf - 3000uf caps and voltages up top 100V and they work perfect.
 
I use 1k Ohm resistors.
At 100 volts, thats 0.1 amp, 10 watts. But this isn't constant power, Its a span of a couple seconds, in which the voltage is ramping up so the wattage is ramping down. 1w resistors have worked for me. I might put a 3w resistor in if I had some near enough to my fingers that I didn't have to reach far when building the harness.
 
Take the guess work out of it. Go to the "No Spark" Resistor calculation webpage and put in your values.
voltage,
charge time (how long you want to wait, I like .25 second )
Total ESC (your ebike controller) Capacitance (usually) 1000uF

http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/nospark.html

I use a single 3 watts 270 ohms resistor on 12s Lipo and 18s Lipo. Absolutely no spark for me.

EDIT: The exact resistor i bought was (3 Watt 120 ohm 120R Metal Film Resistor RoHS 1%) works like a charm.
 
All these values are good in theory. In reality they don't work because of the differences in controller cap values and quite possibly battery construction. At 100V controller voltage jumps to 90V in about a second using a 150 ohm 10w wire wound resistor. if I accidentally hit the throttle, before plugging in the bypass, all I get is a click because power levels will drop below LVC. Get too high and you'll still get a spark using rc lipo. I don't know why some people say a 1000 ohm resistor works, but it sure wouldn't work with any of my packs or controllers. At least not good enough for me.
 
wesnewell said:
Matt Gruber said:
with 24s, i'd use higher ohms even 1000
3-5 watt. sure 150 will work too. anything 150-1000.
i'm thinking of trying a high class LED with R
so the LED dims as it charges up.
way more entertaining!
I started with a 520 ohm 10W resistor. It still gave a big spark. 2 of them in parallel (260 ohm) still gave a good size spark. 3 of them got just a tiny spark. It was just a big bundle so bought a pack of 10 150 ohm 10w resistors off ebay for about $5 shipped. I've used these with 1500uf - 3000uf caps and voltages up top 100V and they work perfect.

Did you try the 3 value's in quick precession? It seems to go against the laws of physics. Smaller resistor equals bigger power flow, so bigger spark. Unless the caps were actually empty for the 1st try, not so empty for the second, and less so for the 3rd.


My guess is the cap/s are on the controllers input, so would become flat very soon after disconnection. Drained by the cpu. Then you come along with your battery and try to power the load, it looks a lot like a short circuit. The caps present this short when flat, and as they charge the voltage difference between them and the battery gets smaller and smaller, so the power flow decreases, until the caps are fully charged and flow about stops. Thus, as the moment of connection the only limit on flow comes from your resistor. A simple ohms law I=V/R if you ignore the barely mentionable battery resistance and what-not.

Q: When you get a spark, if you disconnect and reconnect quickly is it gone? I'm trying to understand how quick the caps actually discharge after disconnection.


I wonder if something trick could be made. A way of starting with a large resistor and switching to a smaller one after charge comenses. A the moment of connection full battery voltage appears across the resistor, which falls to nothing as the caps charge to full. We could watch this using electronics battery side. Have a large resistor that takes forever to charge the caps so makes no spark. Watch the voltage over it, and as it drops, switch in resistors in parallel to speed up the charge rate. You could have no spark and rapid charge. Perhaps it is just a bit silly though unless you have massive voltage and capacitance to deal with.

I just connect quickly and surely, like a sprung switch. If I start to see any erosion I will fit a smaller parallel lead to do the initial connection before I connect my main. I'm not suffering, but I do design around not disconnecting very often. My currant project is still a wee small s12s though, claiming it barely touches the battery when not on. Something about the lcd containing a battery, but mine has no screws. Anyhow.. No personal need to disconnect leaves me interested but clueless...
 
after a month my caps are still 14.8v. from 40.
mine has an on/off switch, does your controller?
always switch it off before disc.
i'm going to put an LED across the resistor as i want to see it light up when i forget to switch it off. if there is a drain, it will stay on. should be 200-500 ohms to make the led work with my 40v.
the led will flash BRIGHT when charging low caps, and go out when they are full.
i've got piles of junk with resistors and led's so i won't have to order anything. There is no need to be precise with free parts.
Worst that could happen is i burn up the led, or it charges slow or has some spark. then i'll change the r.
 
Sounds cool Matt Gruber, please add some pictures when you have a working solution of you plan, with details if you don't mind.

after a month my caps are still 14.8v. from 40.
mine has an on/off switch, does your controller?
always switch it off before disc.
i'm going to put an LED across the resistor as i want to see it light up when i forget to switch it off. if there is a drain, it will stay on. should be 200-500 ohms to make the led work with my 40v.
the led will flash BRIGHT when charging low caps, and go out when they are full.
i've got piles of junk with resistors and led's so i won't have to order anything. There is no need to be precise with free parts.
Worst that could happen is i burn up the led, or it charges slow or has some spark. then i'll change the r.
 
Matt Gruber said:
after a month my caps are still 14.8v. from 40.
mine has an on/off switch, does your controller?
always switch it off before disc.
i'm going to put an LED across the resistor as i want to see it light up when i forget to switch it off. if there is a drain, it will stay on. should be 200-500 ohms to make the led work with my 40v.
the led will flash BRIGHT when charging low caps, and go out when they are full.
i've got piles of junk with resistors and led's so i won't have to order anything. There is no need to be precise with free parts.
Worst that could happen is i burn up the led, or it charges slow or has some spark. then i'll change the r.

No power switch on mine no. I just have typical basic controllers from the likes of bmsb. 14.8v though after a month. That is quite a residual. I'm surprised.

When my 6 fet does not get enough to overcome it's lvc it takes very little. I have not measured, but if my bms kills the power it still leaks out enough to keep my watt-meter active and sustain about 10v . If the controller was also drawing power I can't imagine that 10v holding. I have measured the leakage voltage from my pack when it is driving nothing, and even my voltmeters can pull it down to 20v so to see 10v still while driving my watt-meter is an achievement, So the controllers drain must be insignificant. I'm sure it would flatten the caps in seconds though, at the longest.
 
i've also suggested a post charge resistor, where the pack is just switched off for safety or anti-theft when not in use. (for a day to maybe a week).
higher ohms, i'd guess 5k-10k. this is to keep some juice in the caps, yet not drain the pack in a significant way.
say it drops even as low as 10-15 v there will be a tiny spark compared to DEAD.
.
i'll post a pic of my LEDs when it is hooked up. I have done something similar with a charger where a bulb across a shunt resistor indicates amp flow, it dims as battery charges and draws less amps.
 
Back
Top