Anyone running a 24V Bafang at 36V?

[Russell]

I presently run my 36V Bafang front motor on 48V (54V peak) by way of a 12V SLA in series with 3 Bosch Fatpacks and get a top speed of 23.5mph on the flats. I am considering getting a 48V/10Ah Ping (~58V peak I believe) for this bike but first I was thinking about replacing the 9C motor on my other ebike with another Bafang. The 24V and 36V Bafangs have the same power rating and same top speed it's just the 24V version is wound differently so I'm thinking I could get a 24V version and use it with my 36V controller and 36V Fatpacks and get a top speed of roughly 24-25 mph. Has anyone run a 24V Bafang built for 26" and 700C wheels at 36V?

 

[docnjoj]

How does one know the difference between the 24 volt and the 36 volt? What are the winding counts for each? I have 2 Bafangs and they both perform well at 36 volts and 48 volts. Obviously more kick at 48 volts! Both have good acceleration with Infineon controller,
otherDoc

 

[Russell]

How does one know the difference between the 24 volt and the 36 volt? What are the winding counts for each? I have 2 Bafangs and they both perform well at 36 volts and 48 volts. Obviously more kick at 48 volts! Both have good acceleration with Infineon controller,
otherDoc

Mine has a 36V sticker on it and was sold as part of a 36V kit with a 36V controller. Most motors would have been bought as part of either a 24 or 36 volt kit so the controller voltage would be the tip-off. If a motor were purchased separately the owner should know what they bought. If nothing is known about the motor then one would have to apply either 24V or 36V and see how fast it spins. If a motor is laced to a 26" or 700C rim it should spin around 20 mph unloaded at its rated voltage if it was meant for USA consumption. If 36V (41-44V peak) is applied to a 26" or 700C Bafang and it spins at around 30 mph unloaded that would mean it was a 24V motor (or a motor originally built for a 20" or smaller wheel).

I don't know a source for 24V Bafangs but Goldenmotor.com sells a 24V mini front motor that looks and performs similarly for $79+$60 shipping. According to the spec sheet http://goldenmotor.com/hubmotors/Mini Front 36V200W Performance.pdf the no-load rpm is 9.4 RPM/V which would mean a 31.2 MPH no-load speed at 41.0V with a 700x35 tire. My 36V Bafang spins at 28.7 MPH at 54.0V with a 700x47 tire and hits 23-24 MPH on the road. It's possible then that the 24V mini-GM could hit 25 MPH at 41V on my other bike. It'll be an inexpensive experiment to try so I'll probably order one, I just wanted to know if anyone had done it already.

-R

 

[Gregory]

Are they wired differently or geared differently? Or both?

Perhaps Knuckles or ecrazyman can let you know if there are different replacement gears/tooth counts..

Greg

 

[docnjoj]

I had to regear my first Bafang after the gears "peanut buttered" and I replaced the all nylon with 1 steel and 2 nylon. I believe the gears are standard but the windings may be different. The noise level is still quite low even with the steel gear.
otherDoc

 

[TPA]

cycle9 has a 24V kit in 26" front for less than $200 if you remove the battery.

http://www.cycle9.com/c9store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19&products_id=159&zenid=92455310e24c73117741e9a4ad6fa634

perhaps they can answer your question.

 

[tostino]

I think I found the cheapest place for a Bafang so far.

$69.99 for motor and $49.07 for shipping for a grand total of $119.06 for a rear Bafang!

http://www.bmsbattery.com/index.php?cPath=21_25&osCsid=b5db32185a0ebfbd23ecb9354a5d2c42

I have not bought anything from them though, so I don't know how the company is.

 

[dogman dan]

Hard to beat those prices on bms and chargers too.

 

[Russell]

I think I found the cheapest place for a Bafang so far.

$69.99 for motor and $49.07 for shipping for a grand total of $119.06 for a rear Bafang!

http://www.bmsbattery.com/index.php?cPath=21_25&osCsid=b5db32185a0ebfbd23ecb9354a5d2c42

I have not bought anything from them though, so I don't know how the company is.

Hey nice find. 8) The FRONT motor they are offering (Model:QSWXK) is a SENSORLESS geared motor with a CLUTCH though BMS Battery doesn't mention that.

From the Suzhou website:

http://www.szbaf.com/en/product_detail.asp?ProductID=530

-R

 

[torker]

That is an awesome find. I'm ready to go back and reread Dogmans reviews This hobby gonna get me in trouble with the wifey yet .

Anyone here order from them yet?

 

[marshy]

Hey nice find. 8) The FRONT motor they are offering (Model:QSWXK) is a SENSORLESS geared motor with a CLUTCH though BMS Battery doesn't mention that.

From the Suzhou website:

http://www.szbaf.com/en/product_detail.asp?ProductID=530

-R

That's very interesting you mention a clutch. This I believe is the "P4" front motor that Brett White sells http://www.ebike.biz/P4.htm. I ordered one from him last year - so I may never get first hand experience with it - but I know another customer reported "slipping in the freewheel" when they did actually receive theirs. So what is this clutch for? A torque limiter to avoid gear damage perhaps? I need a motor that has virtually no resistance to free-rolling. Does it have a conventional freewheeling action as well?

It's also interesting that it's sensorless. I don't know what controller Brett was planning to send with this motor but would one of these programmable infineon ones have worked with it? http://www.ebike.biz/infineon.htm I almost bought one of these as a spare....

And Russell, where did you find this info? The Suzhou website doesn't seem to have much other than pictures and dimensions - unless I am missing a link somewhere - ?

marshy

 

[Russell]

It's also interesting that it's sensorless. I don't know what controller Brett was planning to send with this motor but would one of these programmable infineon ones have worked with it? http://www.ebike.biz/infineon.htm I almost bought one of these as a spare....

And Russell, where did you find this info? The Suzhou website doesn't seem to have much other than pictures and dimensions - unless I am missing a link somewhere - ?

marshy

I was looking at the exploded view for the "JeweL" model which shows a clutch where the regular Bafang does not. In order to run sensorless the motor would have to be spinning forward so the clutch must hook-up the motor when the throttle is applied, at least that's my guess. Johnrobholmes has a couple of the motors so maybe he'll report on how they work in the future.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11019#p170997

I'll probably buy another regular Bafang or GM Mini-motor so I can use my existing controllers.

-R

 

[dogman dan]

Hmm, a clutch sounds less reliable than hall sensors to me. Mabye why they are so cheap? The prices look good there on everything though, chargers, bms's , controllers etc, perfect for building bikes for resale. Might be better off to just get the motors spoked in nice rims from Holmes Hobby though.

 

[docnjoj]

And now he's got Pumas! Wah!
otherDoc

 

[marshy]

I was looking at the exploded view for the "JeweL" model which shows a clutch where the regular Bafang does not. In order to run sensorless the motor would have to be spinning forward so the clutch must hook-up the motor when the throttle is applied, at least that's my guess. Johnrobholmes has a couple of the motors so maybe he'll report on how they work in the future.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11019#p170997

I'll probably buy another regular Bafang or GM Mini-motor so I can use my existing controllers.

-R

Yes, that sounds right - clutch engaged when power applied, not some torque limiting function. I was forgetting that the motor needs to be turning for sensorless operation. If the clutch is reliable, then that's an neat alternative to a freewheel - conceivably such a motor could be freewheeling when no power applied but support regen (small amount of throttle downhill, just enough to engage the clutch).

It could also support sensorless operation, as you point out. If that's the same motor on page two of the "new catalog" http://www.szbaf.com/en/news_detail.asp?newsID=350 then the diagram does mention hall sensors, so perhaps the motor could be run in either mode....and this motor might still be an option for you Russell.

 

[marshy]

I think I found the cheapest place for a Bafang so far.

$69.99 for motor and $49.07 for shipping for a grand total of $119.06 for a rear Bafang!

http://www.bmsbattery.com/index.php?cPath=21_25&osCsid=b5db32185a0ebfbd23ecb9354a5d2c42

I have not bought anything from them though, so I don't know how the company is.

Some recent good experience with bmsbattery.com a.k.a. ecitypower http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9054&start=180#p165992

 

[dogman dan]

Perhaps I spoke too soon about reliability, It may be just as reliable as any other bafang. I do like the less functions, less to break attitude to design though, like the direct drive aotema with no halls to break. I'll have to check the price on those pumas now,,,

 

[Russell]

So far I've accumulated 1,934 miles on my Bafang with almost half those miles running at 48V (54V peak). I'm easy on the throttle, use a 15A (peak) controller and have no long grades to contend with so I don't overly tax the little motor.

-R

 

[marshy]

I think I found the cheapest place for a Bafang so far.

$69.99 for motor and $49.07 for shipping for a grand total of $119.06 for a rear Bafang!

http://www.bmsbattery.com/index.php?cPath=21_25&osCsid=b5db32185a0ebfbd23ecb9354a5d2c42

I have not bought anything from them though, so I don't know how the company is.

I was curious which of the motors from the Bafang range that bmsbattery.com could supply (i.e. wheel size/power/V) so I typed a few questions to Miss Lily on the online contact page http://www.bmsbattery.com/contact_us.php and was pleasantly surprised when she replied. We chatted for a while, then I felt like I was on the set of "The Crying Game" when I discovered that Miss Lily was actually Fangqing (Jack) Xie.

Anyway, he was very helpful and provided this information:
- They get the motors in to order, but they can supply most or all of the Bafang Volts/power/rpm range. Typical lead time to source motor is 15 (working) days I think
- if purchasing, put the required motor specs in the order comments
- They have a selection of controllers with similar functionality, mostly varying by power range.
- he recommended UPS shipping over EMS (there a number of options when checking out)

He emailed me a catalogue - most of the contents are on the website but it did also include mention of an ebike kit with rear motor in 26" rim (no cost indicated, looks like he's still putting together the details)

Prices look very competitive, anyone else considering trying them out? I was thinking about getting started with motor and controller while I wait for Brett White to return the bulk of my ebike budget. I have to pinch myself to believe that I've been waiting 10 months for that order.

 

[HighTekBikes]

I'm running a 24V Bafang at 36V and it works fine. This may me a good setup if you want to go 20mph. The ebike is an older Urban Mover mountain bike with 26" wheels that I acquired with no battery. I'm using the original controller. The speed went from around 16mph to about 20mph. It growls a bit when starting off. I have not tested on any hills. I am not sure if there is any difference with this setup verses running a 36V motor with windings made for a 20-24" wheel in a 26" wheel. The speed would be about the same but which has better torque? Which is more efficient?

 

[Russell]

I'm running a 24V Bafang at 36V and it works fine. This may me a good setup if you want to go 20mph. The ebike is an older Urban Mover mountain bike with 26" wheels that I acquired with no battery. I'm using the original controller. The speed went from around 16mph to about 20mph. It growls a bit when starting off. I have not tested on any hills. I am not sure if there is any difference with this setup verses running a 36V motor with windings made for a 20-24" wheel in a 26" wheel. The speed would be about the same but which has better torque? Which is more efficient?

I would expect a much greater speed increase than that given the 50% jump in voltage. Could your original controller have a speed limiter?

My 36V Bafang jumped from about 18 mph with a 36V LiMn pack (41V peak,700x47 tires, 2ft motor cables) to about 23.5 mph after adding a 12V SLA in series (54V peak) which is what I expected given the 32% increase in voltage. I'm thinking about a 48V LiFePO4 for this motor then using the 36V LiMn pack on my other bike. I like the Bafang I have so if I can get a 24V model and run 24 mph on the 36V pack using my existing 36V controller that would be nice...and cheap too.

-R

 

[gedemeisterdk]

hi

I have been running a 24v front bafang and 24v original controller (15 amps), for months with a 16 cell ping (57-58v peek), no problem at all

 

[Russell]

hi

I have been running a 24v front bafang and 24v original controller (15 amps), for months with a 16 cell ping (57-58v peek), no problem at all

What wheel/tire size are you using and how fast does it go on level ground?

-R

 

[gedemeisterdk]

700c tires, I have no speedometer, probably around 25 mph.

are you sure there are any differenses between the 24v motor and 36v motor (wound differently?), the guy that sold me this kit said the motor would run on anything from 24 to 48v, the same info as on the bafang website. Maybe you shouldn trust the ”power rating” too much. diffent labeling and controllers for different markets, same motors. I dunno.

g:

 

[Russell]

700c tires, I have no speedometer, probably around 25 mph.

are you sure there are any differenses between the 24v motor and 36v motor (wound differently?), the guy that sold me this kit said the motor would run on anything from 24 to 48v, the same info as on the bafang website. Maybe you shouldn trust the ”power rating” too much. diffent labeling and controllers for different markets, same motors. I dunno.

g:

I'm pretty sure the only difference between a 24V 250W motor and a 36V 250W motor is that the 24V motor is wound for a greater mph per volt which is why I want to try a 24V motor on 36V. I presently run a 36V motor at 48V (54V peak) using a 36V LiMn pack plus an SLA booster but if I can run a 24V motor on just the 36V LiMn pack and get the same speed then I'll do it. I just wanted to see if anyone had done it before I ordered the motor from China.

-R