AKM-100H 350W motor configs 48V-328RPM vs 36V-201/260RPM

TheBeastie

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I am in the market for a new ebike kit, I want to get a 27.5inch based mountain bike for urban use, not much in hills, probably the biggest hill I ever face is about 400meters of roughly 13degree angle (I would guess), or just your quite average suburban road hills, and it would be just once per ride, AFAIK what cooks motors is too much hill for too long causing the heat to build up..

I aim for decent efficiency, good take off and speed. I like to minimize the frequency of recharging my battery, so I have been thinking 350W motor is about right for my needs. All my ebike batteries are either S12 18650 based or higher voltage.
And I think I just want to get a KT 6 mosfet sine wave controller, I have always only had 500W 9mosfet versions in the past but I always find myself only riding about 350watt most of the time, and would prefer the smaller discreet size of the 6S controller.

Most motors (especially the 350W) are listed as "36V" but some listed are 48V. I've been wondering if this actually an important spec or is even a made up one? As isn't the total watts more important? or is there actual components inside a 36V motor that are more likely to fail if 48V is given even if your just putting 6amps into the motor and the total watts of power inputted is the same?

I have been looking at this site for the AKM 100H 350w motors and notice some kits like this one below are listed as 328RPM 48V 350W motor only, and there is no selectable RPM option for this motor, it just lists 328RPM as highlighted in red color, I was under the assumption that larger sized wheels aren't compatible for 328RPM, but I can select a 27.5" or 700c sized wheel for it, is that assumption wrong?
AKM 350W 48v RPM328.jpg
Also, for the listing above of the single non-changeable 48V 328RPM motor option, it also makes it a bit more confusing by listing: "12. RPM201 or 328". Does that mean that you actually just get what ever specified RPM motor they feel like giving you on that day that could be 201 or 328?

This 350W motor page listing that is 36V based is FAR more clear, it provides 201 or 328RPM choice options in the drop-down menu order box, so you can't go wrong in making an order and getting what you listed. But why is this for 36V only and not 48V?

And then on top, for this 36V 350W motor only listing (no rim build), it offers three different RPM choices, 201 or 260 or 328RPM are selectable options in the drop-down menu order box. Why is there another RPM option for this particular motor of 260 and again this is 36V only, no 48V option. And why is the fork size also different listed as "Fork size: 137.5mm" when the other (supposedly same motor for the other pages) is "Fork size: Rear 135mm"? And also to make it a bit extra weird they have 36/32hole listed in the image, so is there a 32hole version?

I was thinking if I had a choice then the 260RPM 48V 350W 100H would be the best overall choice for a 27.7" wheel and my riding location. And then on top I would want a 32hole motor and reuse the rim that came with my bike if I lace the motor myself. They do have a 32hole 350W front-motor but not rear motor option. AKM-100H 36V350W EBike Rear Driving Hub Motor [AKM-100H rear motor] - $119.60 : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce

Something that has annoyed me for a long time and has now become an "Oh, I see, ok then fine" moment, is the mystery behind the different versions of geared motors for CST and freewheel models. I always thought it was dumb to not offer CST on everything since all modern bikes only come with cassettes and that it's a waste to throw them away..

But NOW I understand that the old threaded-freewheel design allows the internal motor to be wider and thus give more torque and there is no way around that other than to use a freewheel with perhaps less gears. That is fine, I will happily throw away my cassette that came with my bike for basically any double digit percent of higher torque, it just needed to be explained somewhere.

Another thing is, ALL Chinese based sellers seem to have their motor listings like as generally described above where you really wonder what you're getting in rpm/voltage/size and even spoke holes.

Anyone have any thoughts/suggestions?

Thanks all.
 

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I am in the market for a new ebike kit, I want to get a 27.5inch based mountain bike for urban use, not much in hills, probably the biggest hill I ever face is about 400meters of roughly 13degree angle (I would guess), or just your quite average suburban road hills, and it would be just once per ride, AFAIK what cooks motors is too much hill for too long causing the heat to build up..

I aim for decent efficiency, good take off and speed. I like to minimize the frequency of recharging my battery, so I have been thinking 350W motor is about right for my needs. All my ebike batteries are either S12 18650 based or higher voltage.
And I think I just want to get a KT 6 mosfet sine wave controller, I have always only had 500W 9mosfet versions in the past but I always find myself only riding about 350watt most of the time, and would prefer the smaller discreet size of the 6S controller.

Most motors (especially the 350W) are listed as "36V" but some listed are 48V. I've been wondering if this actually an important spec or is even a made up one? As isn't the total watts more important? or is there actual components inside a 36V motor that are more likely to fail if 48V is given even if your just putting 6amps into the motor and the total watts of power inputted is the same?

I have been looking at this site for the AKM 100H 350w motors and notice some kits like this one below are listed as 328RPM 48V 350W motor only, and there is no selectable RPM option for this motor, it just lists 328RPM as highlighted in red color, I was under the assumption that larger sized wheels aren't compatible for 328RPM, but I can select a 27.5" or 700c sized wheel for it, is that assumption wrong?
View attachment 342769
Also, for the listing above of the single non-changeable 48V 328RPM motor option, it also makes it a bit more confusing by listing: "12. RPM201 or 328". Does that mean that you actually just get what ever specified RPM motor they feel like giving you on that day that could be 201 or 328?

This 350W motor page listing that is 36V based is FAR more clear, it provides 201 or 328RPM choice options in the drop-down menu order box, so you can't go wrong in making an order and getting what you listed. But why is this for 36V only and not 48V?

And then on top, for this 36V 350W motor only listing (no rim build), it offers three different RPM choices, 201 or 260 or 328RPM are selectable options in the drop-down menu order box. Why is there another RPM option for this particular motor of 260 and again this is 36V only, no 48V option. And why is the fork size also different listed as "Fork size: 137.5mm" when the other (supposedly same motor for the other pages) is "Fork size: Rear 135mm"? And also to make it a bit extra weird they have 36/32hole listed in the image, so is there a 32hole version?

I was thinking if I had a choice then the 260RPM 48V 350W 100H would be the best overall choice for a 27.7" wheel and my riding location. And then on top I would want a 32hole motor and reuse the rim that came with my bike if I lace the motor myself. They do have a 32hole 350W front-motor but not rear motor option. AKM-100H 36V350W EBike Rear Driving Hub Motor [AKM-100H rear motor] - $119.60 : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce

Something that has annoyed me for a long time and has now become an "Oh, I see, ok then fine" moment, is the mystery behind the different versions of geared motors for CST and freewheel models. I always thought it was dumb to not offer CST on everything since all modern bikes only come with cassettes and that it's a waste to throw them away. But NOW I understand that the old threaded-freewheel design allows the internal motor to be wider and thus give more torque and there is no way around that other than to use a freewheel with perhaps less gears. That is fine, I will happily throw away my cassette that came with my bike for basically any double digit percent of higher torque, it just needed to be explained somewhere.

Another thing is, ALL Chinese based sellers seem to have their motor listings like as generally described above where you really wonder what you're getting in rpm/voltage/size and even spoke holes, or measurements on how to put it in the Online Spoke Calculator for Hubmotors and Ebikes to calculate spoke size, sure I could measure the motor manually after receiving it but it would be much better if I had the option to be able to know what spoke size to order on the same day as I order the motor, as spokes might take many weeks to come in depending where you live thus stretching out the time to complete a wheel build significantly.

Anyone have any thoughts/suggestions?

Thanks all.
Sounds like you have probably read some of my posts, hard not to if one has serched "Q100/Cute".
You could search more of them, but I'll try an answer what you want for your projected build in brief.
All the Q100's are speed rated @ 36 Volts and that's only a standard for comparsion of speed ranges. I've run as high as 60 Volts on these motors w/ lower Amps (overall, it's Watts that matter), but most controllers are limited by their 54 Volt rated caps.
For most riders w/ wheels larger than 26", the high speed range 328 is not a good choice, as it never really gets into it's most efficient rpm range and mid-range performance suffers.
The best Cute motor (best compromise, which is what these low-powered mini hub motors need) would be the Q100H, only avail. as a free wheel mount model. In a 27.5" whl. on 48 Volts, one would be looking at a 23 to 24 mph top speed (flat, no pedal) while retaining decent climbing ability. A 201 would certianing climb better, but it would be a little slow, 20 to 21, maybe 22 mph. Going to a 29" wheel would add 1 to 2 mph and going from 48 V to 52 V would also add that amount and would not be wheel size dependent.
A 260H requires a free wheel and it needs to have an 11T sm sorocket as one can pedal along nad there isn't much choice. Almost everyone uses an Enoch DPR and they are not too bad, just heavy and a bit course.
I ordered the motor assem. w/ the wheel most of the time if the shipping wasn't much more than the motor only. They too are not too bad, the spokes tend to rust, they are a bit heavy and they still need to be trued before riding, but at least one doesn't have to calculate spoke lenght (A PIA).
I like to run controllers in the 18 to 22 AMP range w/ this motor on 52 Vots.
That way, it almost has some real performance:)
 
Sounds like you have probably read some of my posts, hard not to if one has serched "Q100/Cute".
You could search more of them, but I'll try an answer what you want for your projected build in brief.
All the Q100's are speed rated @ 36 Volts and that's only a standard for comparsion of speed ranges. I've run as high as 60 Volts on these motors w/ lower Amps (overall, it's Watts that matter), but most controllers are limited by their 54 Volt rated caps.
For most riders w/ wheels larger than 26", the high speed range 328 is not a good choice, as it never really gets into it's most efficient rpm range and mid-range performance suffers.
The best Cute motor (best compromise, which is what these low-powered mini hub motors need) would be the Q100H, only avail. as a free wheel mount model. In a 27.5" whl. on 48 Volts, one would be looking at a 23 to 24 mph top speed (flat, no pedal) while retaining decent climbing ability. A 201 would certianing climb better, but it would be a little slow, 20 to 21, maybe 22 mph. Going to a 29" wheel would add 1 to 2 mph and going from 48 V to 52 V would also add that amount and would not be wheel size dependent.
A 260H requires a free wheel and it needs to have an 11T sm sorocket as one can pedal along nad there isn't much choice. Almost everyone uses an Enoch DPN and they are not too bad, just heavy and a bit course.
I ordered the motor assem. w/ the wheel most of the time if the shipping wasn't much more than the motor only. They too are not too bad, the spokes tend to rust, they are a bit heavy and they still need to be trued before riding, but at least one doesn't have to calculate spoke lenght (A PIA).
I like to run controllers in the 18 to 22 AMP range w/ this motor on 52 Vots.
That way, it almost has some real performance:)
Oh, and fitment, a 260 w/ a 9-speed free wheel comes out around 135 mm which is not too much to just spread the chainstays to get it in. It depends on the bike. The Q100 w/ a 9-speed CST is a little wider at 136 mm plus and that's enough to sometimes make fitment a little tricky.
I often ran a 7-speed DPN (about 133 MM), which was more of a drop-in, w/ the 9-speed chain. It worked ok.
 
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Oh, and fitment, a 260 w/ a 9-speed free wheel comes out around 135 mm which is not too much to just spread the chainstays to get it in. It depends on the bike. The Q100 w/ a 9-speed CST is a little wider at 136 mm plus and that's enough to sometimes make fitment a little tricky.
I often ran a 7-speed DPN (about 133 MM), which was more of a drop-in, w/ the 9-speed chain. It worked ok.
Thanks.
Yeah I was thinking that now I understand the issue of hub motor design giving up freewheel/cassette gear space in favour of a wider hub motor allows for more torque/performance, I wish there was a 1-speed freewheel hub motor version, because if there is even just 5% or higher gain in any kind of performance/reliability/convenience etc then it is worth it. Or if it's possible just a 3-speed freewheel so that I can still make use of my back derailer.

The idea of not bothering to even have a cable/controller for the rear derailleur is a temping thought also, save weight/complexity.
Having a lot of freewheel gears on a hub motor just isn't worth it or rarely used by me, and I think that is the case for most hub ebike users.
 
Thanks.
Yeah I was thinking that now I understand the issue of hub motor design giving up freewheel/cassette gear space in favour of a wider hub motor allows for more torque/performance, I wish there was a 1-speed freewheel hub motor version, because if there is even just 5% or higher gain in any kind of performance/reliability/convenience etc then it is worth it. Or if it's possible just a 3-speed freewheel so that I can still make use of my back derailer.

The idea of not bothering to even have a cable/controller for the rear derailleur is a temping thought also, save weight/complexity.
Having a lot of freewheel gears on a hub motor just isn't worth it or rarely used by me, and I think that is the case for most hub ebike users.
A little Q100/Cute history.
I think the need/design process was actually the reverse. The standard free-wheel mounting hub motor came first and it was a while before the motor was redesigned to accept a cassette. About the same time the Q100C became avail., the Q100H was introduced.
I alway took the Q100H's ability to produce more power was the result of stronger (neo?) magnets as I took many of the varients apart and while are many sm changes in final gear ratios over the years, there's no changes increasing any real mechanical leverage inside. Aikima claimed an increase of 30%, but I would say 10 to 15% would a more realistic number.
So when I first, thinking I needed a smoother, lighter cassette instead of a clunky free wheel, swaped in a Q100C, it didn't seem too underwhelming compared to what I had been using. The assumpsion that I doubled down on was, the Q100C used the stronger magnets that to some degree, compensated for the 30% narrower stator. But what really ended my relationship w/ the Q100C was fitment, I couldn't get the C/9-speed to install very well into my fav. donnor bike.
The only real advantage of the cassette was the ability to snick thru 4 or 5 gears smoothly. The problem w/ this is, shifting thru gears on a mini-motor is actually slower than just leaving it in a gear and pedaling harder.
I then tried making a lighter, "better" Enoch, this turned out to be a nightmare as the DNP is hermeticaly sealed ("for your protection":), it doesn't easily come apart w/out cutting pieces.
On my last Q100's I used, I started looking at the DNP in a different light;
Use a 7-speed, 8-speed or 9-speed, to keep the chain allignment on the outer small gears.
Even when I more of less stopped shifting at all, I would sometimes leave it on the second gear (13T) to save wear and tear on the 11T. Although, I've never worn out the sm gear on a DNP.
Weight? Does it really matter if a free wheel adds a few ounces to a 2 Kg. mini-motor? On my 2WD bikes I thought about weight, but they were getting a little too heavy to carry up a flight of stairs.
On 90% on hub-motored ebikes, free wheel weight just doesn't matter.
 
I use A Q100CST for my commute to work. 26" mtb, single speed, 44 x 13. I have 2 steep hills which I need to hit a speed, and stand up, to get up but it is better than having to maintain a rear derailleur for every day use. 2 years worth of use so far...
I ordered 328rpm, but got 201. Tested at 36v gave 225 no load. I run it with 12s LIPo, gives 23mph on the flat with pedalling. I use Field weakening to increase speed to 26mph. Bike is still lightweight. 8Ah battery gets me 23 mile round trip with 40% left at average of 22mph. 9A battery current, 15A phase current, runs sensorless so rain, puddles don't affect it.
 
Trochę historii Q100/Cute.
Myślę, że proces potrzeby/projektowania był w rzeczywistości odwrotny. Najpierw pojawił się standardowy silnik z piastą z wolnym kołem i minęło trochę czasu, zanim silnik został przeprojektowany tak, aby pasował do kasety. Mniej więcej w tym samym czasie, gdy na rynku pojawił się Q100C, wprowadzono Q100H.
Zawsze uważałem, że zdolność Q100H do wytwarzania większej mocy wynika z silniejszych (neo?) magnesów, gdy rozbierałem wiele wariantów i chociaż na przestrzeni lat nastąpiło wiele niewielkich zmian w końcowych przełożeniach, nie ma żadnych zmian zwiększających jakąkolwiek rzeczywistą dźwignię mechaniczną wewnątrz. Aikima stwierdziła wzrost o 30%, ale powiedziałbym, że 10 do 15% byłoby bardziej realistyczną liczbą.
Kiedy więc po raz pierwszy pomyślałem, że potrzebuję gładszej i lżejszej kasety zamiast niezgrabnego wolnego koła, zamieniłem ją na Q100C, nie wydawało mi się to zbyt rozczarowujące w porównaniu z tym, czego używałem. Założenie, które podwoiłem, było takie, że w Q100C zastosowano silniejsze magnesy, co w pewnym stopniu kompensowało węższy o 30% stojan. Ale tym, co tak naprawdę zakończyło mój związek z Q100C, był montaż, nie mogłem dobrze zainstalować prędkości C/9 w moim ulubionym. rower dawcy.
Jedyną prawdziwą zaletą kasety była możliwość płynnego przechodzenia 4 lub 5 biegów. Problem w tym, że zmiana biegów w minisilniku jest w rzeczywistości wolniejsza niż pozostawienie go na biegu i mocniejsze pedałowanie.
Następnie próbowałem zrobić lżejszego, „lepszego” Enocha, okazało się to koszmarem, ponieważ DNP jest hermetycznie zamknięty („dla twojego bezpieczeństwa” :)nie da się go łatwo rozdzielić bez wycinania kawałków.
Na moich ostatnich Q100, których używałem, zacząłem patrzeć na DNP w innym świetle;
Użyj 7-biegowej, 8-biegowej lub 9-biegowej, aby zachować wyrównanie łańcucha na zewnętrznych małych zębatkach.
Nawet gdy w ogóle przestałem zmieniać biegi, czasami zostawiałem go na drugim biegu (13T), aby zaoszczędzić zużycie 11T. Chociaż nigdy nie zużyłem sprzętu sm w DNP.
Waga? Czy to naprawdę ma znaczenie, czy wolne koło dodaje kilka uncji do 2 kg. minisilnik? W przypadku moich rowerów z napędem na 2 koła myślałem o wadze, ale stawały się one trochę za ciężkie, aby móc wjechać po schodach.
W 90% rowerów elektrycznych z silnikiem w piaście masa wolnego koła po prostu nie ma znaczenia.
I intend to install AKM-100H 48V350W as an additional front hub in a 29" bike with a TSDZ2 central mid motor. Therefore, I am asking for consultation on the following issues:
Will the AKM engine work with tsdz2 controller for replace 48V 500W (TSDZ2 and AKM engines and two the same controllers, one integrated with TSDZ, the other purchased for AKM)
Both controllers connected to the VLCD5 display
How to route the signal from the tenso sensor to the second controller?
Will this system work?
 
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