Apologies - first post and head fried while I fear controller maybe....

[Allafloat]

Greetings,

New to all this but managed to put together a 500watt 48 volt bafang BBSO2 kit for my wife to use. Turned out it was way to fast for her in stock mode, so spent ages with Speeed app and cables trying to reprogram it. I tried two cables but neither would work, so bought an Eggrider unit in the belief that connecting that with bluetooth to a phone app would be easy. If only: sadly it turned out I'd managed to bend one of the male pins in the little green connector, so I went to straighten this with a small screwdriver, and heard the nasty sound of something shorting out either on the motor or the battery. Now, having put the stock bits of kit back together again, I find the entire system is dead. I cannot find a fuse. Been all over the internet without luck, but have learned there's a good chance I'm going to have to replace a controller.

I'd really appreciate if someone who's familar with these bits of kit could confirm if that is the case or not.

Many thanks.

 

[E-HP]

Greetings,

New to all this but managed to put together a 500watt 48 volt bafang BBSO2 kit for my wife to use. Turned out it was way to fast for her in stock mode, so spent ages with Speeed app and cables trying to reprogram it. I tried two cables but neither would work, so bought an Eggrider unit in the belief that connecting that with bluetooth to a phone app would be easy. If only: sadly it turned out I'd managed to bend one of the male pins in the little green connector, so I went to straighten this with a small screwdriver, and heard the nasty sound of something shorting out either on the motor or the battery. Now, having put the stock bits of kit back together again, I find the entire system is dead. I cannot find a fuse. Been all over the internet without luck, but have learned there's a good chance I'm going to have to replace a controller.

I'd really appreciate if someone who's familar with these bits of kit could confirm if that is the case or not.

Many thanks.

You may indeed need a new controller, but you should go through some steps before assuming that's the case. Your description is detailed, but I still can't see what you are seeing so perhaps posting a few pics might help. Alternatively, going off the same diagram that we all can see might help you point out what happened and which pins you may have shorted. Do you have a voltmeter/multimeter to perform some measurements with?

 

[fill]

Did you open the battery for a look see for a blown fuse?

 

[Allafloat]

You may indeed need a new controller, but you should go through some steps before assuming that's the case. Your description is detailed, but I still can't see what you are seeing so perhaps posting a few pics might help. Alternatively, going off the same diagram that we all can see might help you point out what happened and which pins you may have shorted. Do you have a voltmeter/multimeter to perform some measurements with?

Thank you for such a prompt and helpful reply. I managed to short between connections 2 and 5 in the display harness connection. I do have a volt meter.

 

[Allafloat]

Did you open the battery for a look see for a blown fuse?

I followed the inevitable youtube video on checking the fuses in the battery case but in my (DC2600 48volt 13 amp) there were none.

 

[Mongo]

Well, as far as I know, there's no fuse in the controller and since one of the male pins in the green connector has a battery-level voltage (at partial current), yes, the controller circuitry may have been damaged. You might try plugging in the programming cable (which has a motor power-on jumper) and see if either pedaling or the throttle spins the motor.

 

[Allafloat]

Thank you for such a prompt and helpful reply. I managed to short between connections 2 and 5 in the display harness connection.

Well, as far as I know, there's no fuse in the controller and since one of the male pins in the green connector has a battery-level voltage (at partial current), yes, the controller circuitry may have been damaged. You might try plugging in the programming cable (which has a motor power-on jumper) and see if either pedaling or the throttle spins the motor.

HI Mongo, Just plugged the programming cable in, and where it used to light up before my little fizzing sound, it no longer does sadly. it would seem the system is now dead electrically.

 

[gromike]

Make sure you check that the battery outputs a voltage before you buy a new controller and/or display.
Probably something blew upstream of the connector at the P+ power feed. You could always look for where the failure occured, and probably then destroy the controller anyway. IIRC, controllers for a BBS02 aren't expensive.

 

[E-HP]

HI Mongo, Just plugged the programming cable in, and where it used to light up before my little fizzing sound, it no longer does sadly. it would seem the system is now dead electrically.

Sounds dead, but maybe not the controller. Interesting though. I don't think PL (pin 2) should normally have been carrying battery level voltage if the controller wasn't on, since P5 (battery voltage) is shorted to PL to turn the controller on. Is the battery output good (using your meter)?

 

[docw009]

Thank you for such a prompt and helpful reply. I managed to short between connections 2 and 5 in the display harness connection. I do have a volt meter.

That would be PL and TXd. The controller isn't turned on til PL gets battery voltage which is looped back from the display after it turns on. Maybe you touched pin 3. This would blow out the circuitry on TXd and Rxd, and spark like mad if it touched ground.

I use jumper wires to connect those pins,

If you ever get it working, you should be able to slow the bike down. Don't reduce the speed limit, but reduce the current in this screen from the PC utility. I never used the Speed App. I connect a windows laptop,

 

[E-HP]

If you have to replace the controller, it may be possible to replace it with a 250W BBS01 unit, since I'm sensing less power is better in this case. I don't know for certain, but others on this thread may be able to confirm compatibility.

 

[Allafloat]

Thanks to all offering advice - much appreciated. It is possible that I shorted out the unit from another pin as I tried to straighten pin 1, all I know is that there was a brief fizzing sound from below and my heart sank. I'm trying to sort my way forward without spending any more than I have to as it's all getting a bit silly now.

What I have is a 500W Bafang mid drive and a 48 volt 13 amp battery (I also have a larger 48 volt battery but that wont' fit this bike). I'm a regular long distance cyclist - 12 to 15 hrs most weeks - and the plan was to build something my wife could ride with me on rides of up to 60 or 70 miles at speeds of about 20mph. It'll only be used with PAS and I won't fit a throttle The problem with her bike out of the box was that it was way too fast at low speeds and settings so I've been trying to detune and reprogram it. I'm guessing the pin in the socket has been bent for a while hence all the problems. I also don't have access to a windows system.

The battery is reading 51.7 volts this morning and all the lights on it are bright, but I cannot get the system to start or any hint of life on the little screen on the handlebar. I'm assuming replacing the controller might fix this? Would a 250 watt version handle the extra voltage (I can't find one rated higher than 36 volts). This would be good as we don't need the full power potential. My only other thought is to bite the bullet and put on the 250 watt motor I now realise would have been perfectly adequate, yet if this can't be done with the 48 volt battery the expense makes it unviable.

Bit of an essay, and I'm asking advice way after doing so would have been most wise, but very grateful for any pointers.

 

[Mongo]

I haven't personally tried it, but I doubt the 36v BBS01 controller will work at 48v, and the components may not be rated for it. I also think the controller's outer case changed slightly over the years, and it might not even fit:



Perhaps the motor's cadence (versus torque sensing) behavior is the real problem bothering your wife - even at low power settings. Also, is she experienced with 20mph speeds on a bicycle?

In your application, the Tongsheng or Toseven DM02 motor may be, or have been a better choice.

... No harsh criticism meant - just reactions to the words and some experience with women who have tried out a BBS02-powered step-thru I built up, including women who hadn't ridden a bicycle in decades. A few seemed to fare better just using the throttle initially to reacquaint with the feel of things.

 

[Allafloat]

I haven't personally tried it, but I doubt the 36v BBS01 controller will work at 48v, and the components may not be rated for it. I also think the controller's outer case changed slightly over the years, and it might not even fit:

View attachment 356181

Perhaps the motor's cadence (versus torque sensing) behavior is the real problem bothering your wife - even at low power settings. Also, is she experienced with 20mph speeds on a bicycle?

In your application, the Tongsheng or Toseven DM02 motor may be, or have been a better choice.

... No harsh criticism meant = just reactions to the words and some experience with women who have tried out a BBS02-powered step-thru I built up, including women who hadn't ridden a bicycle in decades. A few seemed to fare better just using the throttle initially to reacquaint with the feel of things.

No criticism taken Mongo. Wife quite ok at 20mph in open spaces as she's a motorcyclist. What she struggles with is the instant power the moment she starts pedalling, particularly so in crowded or busy spaces. I had no idea that this would be the case when ordering the kit and why bafang have this kicking in at even 0 PAS setting is a little weird to me as a complete newbie to these things. . All I was looking to do when reprogramming was take the PAS off at 0 and then very gently ramp it up through the lower numbers so she'd have a range of control. I think I'll still do this once I've found the issue with what I have. I'll order another 48 volt controller.

 

[Mongo]

No criticism taken Mongo. Wife quite ok at 20mph in open spaces as she's a motorcyclist. What she struggles with is the instant power the moment she starts pedalling, particularly so in crowded or busy spaces. I had no idea that this would be the case when ordering the kit and why bafang have this kicking in at even 0 PAS setting is a little weird to me as a complete newbie to these things. . All I was looking to do when reprogramming was take the PAS off at 0 and then very gently ramp it up through the lower numbers so she'd have a range of control. I think I'll still do this once I've found the issue with what I have. I'll order another 48 volt controller.

Thanks, I'm always worried that my written words don't convey correctly what I intend.

You wrote, "kicking in at even 0 PAS setting" - out of the box? None of my BBS motors, when new, operated at PAS 0.

There are settings that people have used to calm down the BBS motors - lots of opinions - here's but one example, and another here. I prefer the open-source BBS-FW firmware replacement. For a while, I was fiddling with the settings quite a bit, so I circumcised the programming cable plug, removing the labyrinth seal that's not needed while programming:


Without the seal, it's easier to see the orientation and plug-unplug the connectors.

 

[Allafloat]

Thanks, I'm always worried that my written words don't convey correctly what I intend.

You wrote, "kicking in at even 0 PAS setting" - out of the box? None of my BBS motors, when new, operated at PAS 0.

There are settings that people have used to calm down the BBS motors - lots of opinions - here's but one example, and another here. I prefer the open-source BBS-FW firmware replacement. For a while, I was fiddling with the settings quite a bit, so I circumcised the programming cable plug, removing the labyrinth seal that's not needed while programming:

View attachment 356183
Without the seal, it's easier to see the orientation and plug-unplug the connectors.

That's a shed load of very helpful information Mongo. I didn't have the speed sensor fitted when last trying the bike, and maybe naive in assuming this wasn't affecting the PAS settings? I'll save this thread for returning to once I have the new controller installed and am ready to try again with the settings. It's been a steep and expensive learning curve so very grateful of your willingness to share and I'll have a longer wander on your site soon enough.

 

[Allafloat]

Never having heard of either Tongsheng or the toseven options I've just spent some time on google, and some more time kicking myself! The Tongsheng sounds absolutely ideal for what I'm struggling to achieve with the Bafang kit, so much so that I"m wondering if the motor will work with the 48 volt 13 amp battery I have for the Bafang? I'll swallow the expense if so. Fingers crossed.

 

[E-HP]

Never having heard of either Tongsheng or the toseven options I've just spent some time on google, and some more time kicking myself! The Tongsheng sounds absolutely ideal for what I'm struggling to achieve with the Bafang kit, so much so that I"m wondering if the motor will work with the 48 volt 13 amp battery I have for the Bafang? I'll swallow the expense if so. Fingers crossed.

How much do you weigh?

 

[Allafloat]

I weigh 100 kilos. Fortunately the bike is for the mrs and she's not much more than half that - about 10 stone.

 

[E-HP]

I weigh 100 kilos. Fortunately the bike is for the mrs and she's not much more than half that - about 10 stone.

That’s good. There’s an issue with weak bottom bracket shafts/axles and breakage on the TSDZ2, so probably not a good choice for heavier riders.

 

[Allafloat]

That’s good. There’s an issue with weak bottom bracket shafts/axles and breakage on the TSDZ2, so probably not a good choice for heavier riders.

Thanks for the heads up

 

[Mongo]

Never having heard of either Tongsheng or the toseven options I've just spent some time on google, and some more time kicking myself! The Tongsheng sounds absolutely ideal for what I'm struggling to achieve with the Bafang kit, so much so that I"m wondering if the motor will work with the 48 volt 13 amp battery I have for the Bafang? I'll swallow the expense if so. Fingers crossed.

The Toseven DM02 (and more powerful DM01) is a late arrival to the party, but hopefully, it has an improved design over the earlier Tongsheng TSDZ2 series (both designed by the same engineer, I believe). Hopefully, Lekkie or some other aftermarket chainring vendor will offer a Toseven-compatible offset chainring.

Then there's the CYC Photon motor.

There's already a lot of owner experience here for the Tongsheng; for the Toseven, not as much, but growing. Some topics are cadence versus torque assist, heat management, chain line woes, Q-factor, etc., etc.

I don't feel there's an overall best choice, more of which one is most optimal for the specifics.

 

[Allafloat]

The Toseven DM02 (and more powerful DM01) is a late arrival to the party, but hopefully a better design than the Tongsheng TSDZ2 series (both designed by the same engineer, I believe). Hopefully, Lekkie or some other aftermarket chainring vendor will come up with a Toseven-compatible offset chainring.

There's already a lot of owner experience here for the Tongsheng; for the Toseven, not as much, but growing. Candence versus torque assist, heat management, chainline woes, Q-factor, etc., etc.

I can buy this for very sensible money (240 Euro) and put an end to all the messing with programming and a stressed mrs. I also think, as you suggested yesterday, that it will be a much better fit to what I'm trying to achieve than the Bafang.

TSDZ2B tongsheng 48V 500W 350W 15A tsdz2 electric bicycle mid motor with torque sensor VLCD5 VLCD6 XH18-LCD 850C​

As far as I can see the battery I have should be a simple enough fit - just a live and negative and no messing with signal wires etc?

 

[fill]

Before you click buy check out pedelec.co.uk, a couple of folk in there are pretty conversant with the bafang mid drive control s/w and settings, Well they keep posting them at least... I am a hub drive rider so am just an interested reader of ebike posts, but as far as i know the bafang s/w is fully configurable, so should be able to provide your mrs with what she needs power delivery wise, perhaps you just need pointing at the right setting and values to try? tho i could also be wide off target too

 

[Mongo]

My outsider (not a Tongsheng/Toseven owner) guess would be that the Tongsheng TSDZ2 would work for your situation, as I understand it. But, as @E-HP pointed out, it has some design weaknesses or tradeoffs. Its price point is perhaps its biggest positive, and plenty of happy owners exist.