Are all ebike-scooters Junk?

[Blueshift]

I have been reading many reviews of these so called ebike scooters and they all seem to have a worrisome failure rate. I have red stories of plastic breaking, motors failing, wires shaking loose, throttles getting stuck on and having to turn the power off.

Are there any reputable ebike scooters out there? If anybody is wondering, I am talking about the scooter ones that look like the 50cc sit down scooters, not the ones that look like razor push scooters. Here are some brands: Xtreme Scooters, Gio, Veloteq, Daymak.

I think the concept of these scooters is neat, well aside from the lack of stealth
Maybe it would be better to buy a used one and switch it out with some better batteries and redo the connections a bit better.

Would it be to much to ask to get an ebike with 50cc quality fairings and frames etc. but be limited to 20mph?

 

[dogman dan]

Well, the answer is yes and no. And where it lands depends on where you draw the line on what is junk.

Are the motors and controllers worse than a typical ebay bike kit? No

Are the sla batteries they tend to come with useless? Almost. Certainly they weigh too much. That's a fairly easy fix, a china E-scooter will enjoy a huge improvement if it was converted to 48v 20 ah lifepo4 or lipo.

Are the frames, suspension, lights, etc on the bike junk? Yes, if you agree that a wallmart bike is junk. It would be nice to see honda put out a good one. But you'd pay $3000 for it I bet, not $800.

But the BIG PROBLEM with these scooters may be the way law enforcement views them. If you want to ride the bike trails, or have no drivers licence, cops and the public may not care what the law says. They may drag you to court anyway. Despite the local state law, your cop, and in particular your favorite cop who hates your ass can make you miserable simply because they look at the thing, and decide" that is not a bike". At that point, it's game on between you and the cops, regardless of the laws actual reality.

The fed ebike law doesn't matter, only the local motor vehicle statutes. But local cops may be quite ignorant of them and hassle you because you look like a motorcycle or moped, which may require a licence.

 

[dogman dan]

Revisiting the idea of honda or somebody making a nice scooter, One in the $5000 price range would be nice.

Not a bike, but a real street legal scoot with plates and such. 72v 30 ah battery, perhaps able to go 35-40 mph. Big motor to handle long rides, but still able to climb 15%.

Of course, that kind of money buys you a LOT of gas motorcycle on the used market, so it's not happening real soon. Making an e scoot with 60 mph performance just gets even more expensive.

 

[Brentis]

Like Dogman is suggesting, this old adage apply.
You get what you pay for.

For example,
I believe you would be alot happier, have far fewer problems, with a Vetrix scooter over a Gio
But the Vetrix was over $5 grand new, the Gio I've seen new, for as low as $550 cdn.
The Vetrix is a real moto/scooter, the Gio a plastic toy.

If you want a quality reliable scoot you are going to have to pay for it.
(though used Vetrix can be found on the cheap)
Avoid the Gio, I believe them to be the worst of the cheap scoots.
Daymak's are a lil' better, not much though.
Evt or Motorino scooters are somewhere in the middle.

I purchased a cheap scooter, look for "Baja Rat" in the scooter/moto section.
On the first ride I broke 3 pieces of plastic.
Poor design, poor assembly, very heavy.
Still it was rock solid reliable as far as controller/motor goes.
Batteries, fugetaboutit.
The best option for that scoot was "Scootbike" (see sig.)

Also consider that the general public view these 500w-750w scooters as motorcycles.
They see you on a bike path, they will raise hell.
So you are stuck with riding the nail/screw trail on the side of the road.

To sum it up,
Are all ebike-scooters junk? No.
The 600-800 dollar ones are. :wink:
It is a matter of perception though.
If I drop 5k I want quality.
$500 bones & I expect to get what I got, a motor/controller,
and some spare components.

Ask questions before you buy.

 

[John in CR]

I've got one cheap enough that I got a "fix one get one free" deal. If you're not a medium or large person, then it could be pretty decent basic transportation. The frames on the 2 we dealt with are just too weak and flexy for someone over about 150lb (say 70kg). My 16yr old daughter loves hers, though it took a bit of work to transform it from a 15kph POS to a decent 25mph machine.

The inline with the controller throttle speed governor had to go, but that got it to only 20kph, still unacceptable. The 48V lead was dead anyway, so we upgraded that massive battery bay to 16p20s heavily used Konions. The wires were that common 16ga crap, so we upgraded the primary wires (battery and phase), and put in a 9fet controller with regen.

Vs an ebike, I perfer an ebike hands down due to handling. The wheels are completely fendered and it has full lighting, so if I absolutely had to go out with very wet roads or at night, then I'd prefer the scooter.

Yes, all the switches and wiring are cheap, but that stuff is also easily fixed. My biggest complaint in the cheapie department are the connections of the outer shell. The plastic with a few screws and very little support means a noisy plastic rattle-trap. The pedals were absolutely useless on one, the one wider and shaped more like gas scoots. The narrower one had longer cranks and a proper position, so they could be used in a pinch on flat ground. On that one, it actually had pretty bike-like handling with feet on the pedals, which I preferred to on the feet in front platform.

I'd say the little scooter wins in the motor department over a cheap ebike, because a hubbie in a 16" rim will always win and it's otherwise virtually identical to a 9C. The wide tires on the scoot are far better than on a cheap ebike, and actually appear to be a DOT approved 50mph rated tire.

John

 

[Drunkskunk]

The ones that are meant to be "Bicycles" under the law are bassicly all junk. The ones meant to be licensed and insured moped/scooters that comply with DOT regulations, there are a few, but not many, not cheap. And those aren't sold as Bicycles, but as motorbikes, scooters, or mopeds depending on local state laws.

You can always improve one to the point of being acceptable, but not cheaply.

But consider that you may find your self well hated by just about everyone if you try to use one as a "bicycle" on public sidewalks or in parks. Those scooterbikes realy aren't much of a bike.

In Texas you might get shot riding one in a park. Afterwards, the local newspaper headlines would likely read "Local hero defends children against deranged motorcycle rider in park".

 

[John in CR]

As a side note the 2 I had direct experience with were of the lowest power variety and set up for 15kph top speed. These had the motors essentially identical to a 9C but in a 16" solid rim and only a 25mm thick stator vs 27mm for 9C's. These also had very light frames with thin walled tubing. I boosted them to 2kw peak via more voltage and current, which they handled fine after beefing up the dropouts. I know some of the ebike/scooters sold in the US are a different variety with a scooter type hubbie, not an ebike hubbie with a small rims and long axle with those crappy band brakes. Those with a scooter type hubbie are going to be much beefier machines, and have motors capable of power in the multi-kw, though the plastic skins and wiring for lights and stuff are probably where the cheapness lies.

John

 

[motorino magnet]

I bought this one which is built on a Yamaha Vino 125cc frame.No complaints so far.Have not seen any better for 2000 dollars.Good quality and North American vendor with warranty.

http://www.e-ride.ca/Electric_Scooters/Motorino_XPn.htm

 

[dogman dan]

Those look better than most, but 500w? It's a moped, and I'd much prefer to have some better power if I ride a moped. Part of that is where I live, my ebike is a moped. No power limit, just a speed limit. 8) So I can ride a pretty nice ebike if I have a valid licence, yet don't get kicked off the bike trails.

So that, but with a bit more motor and 3000w would be my idea of a usefull ride. Make it a motorcycle, and let it go 40 mph.

 

[MikeFairbanks]

I still think electric transportation is a bit over-hyped here on ES.

Gasoline is still relatively cheap if you are driving something reasonable and have set yourself up reasonably well.

I spend $40 dollars a month on gasoline, which includes 20 trips to work (and back), along with a couple other ventures each week (church events).

I got into E-biking for fun, but during the winter, when it's dark and cold, I drive my car. I only live about five miles from work and drive a small Honda Civic. It still starts and runs like the day I bought it eleven years ago new. It only has 60k miles on it and has never been in an accident. I have a spotless driving record with my insurance company, so that's cheap too.

Plus, on a motorcycle (which can be had for five grand new, sometimes a bit less) it's perfectly reasonable to get 80 mpg, and on a gas scooter you can get 100mpg, which is about three cents a mile. That would make my commute 30 cents a day. Currently it's about a buck, sometimes a buck-twenty-five a day to drive my car, which isn't bad, considering it's warm, dry, can hold my coffee, and give me the news as I drive the fifteen minutes to work.


I figure as long as I see tons of big cars, mini-vans and SUVs in the parking lot at work, then we're not too close to electric transportation hitting mainstream.

An e-scooter that cost $3000 dollars won't be my cup of tea. I'd just end up with a TW200 at that point. I really want one anyway.

Look at the back tire on that badboy. It might top out at 65mph, but it's got torque for days, and will get you through anything on-road or off.

 

[johnrobholmes]

Here Here!! There are still times when practicality means ICE engines.

I still think electric transportation is a bit over-hyped here on ES.

Gasoline is still relatively cheap if you are driving something reasonable and have set yourself up reasonably well.

I spend $40 dollars a month on gasoline, which includes 20 trips to work (and back), along with a couple other ventures each week (church events).

I got into E-biking for fun, but during the winter, when it's dark and cold, I drive my car. I only live about five miles from work and drive a small Honda Civic. It still starts and runs like the day I bought it eleven years ago new. It only has 60k miles on it and has never been in an accident. I have a spotless driving record with my insurance company, so that's cheap too.

Plus, on a motorcycle (which can be had for five grand new, sometimes a bit less) it's perfectly reasonable to get 80 mpg, and on a gas scooter you can get 100mpg, which is about three cents a mile. That would make my commute 30 cents a day. Currently it's about a buck, sometimes a buck-twenty-five a day to drive my car, which isn't bad, considering it's warm, dry, can hold my coffee, and give me the news as I drive the fifteen minutes to work.


I figure as long as I see tons of big cars, mini-vans and SUVs in the parking lot at work, then we're not too close to electric transportation hitting mainstream.

An e-scooter that cost $3000 dollars won't be my cup of tea. I'd just end up with a TW200 at that point. I really want one anyway.

Look at the back tire on that badboy. It might top out at 65mph, but it's got torque for days, and will get you through anything on-road or off.

But for less than 15 mile days a hacked up E scooter with some good lithiums and hefty controller will be a really mean pavement pounder! The little scooter hubs are really fun on 66v lipo and higher! A local buddy has one and rips it around to the store and back for small errands. It is quiet so he doesn't have to worry about waking the neighbors or pissing them off with 4 corner store runs in a night.

 

[veloman]

Well, we are biased towards EVs because we really appreciate their benefits. Take someone who doesn't care about the pollution they create behind them, and yeah, ev's lose a lot of points.

If you're out in rural or low density areas, ev's certainly won't make as much sense. But they definitely have their place in urban and some suburban areas where clean, quiet, low maintenance, lower speed transportation is valued.


As for the e-scooter, I think they must have enough power to go 45mph, minimum. Otherwise you are dragging ass trying to stay safe in traffic on a fast urban road that's uphill or a strong headwind at 40mph. An ebike can get away with much lower performance since it is seen as a bicycle and the rider will stay away from busy streets usually. Power is hugely expensive with evs, so that's why I think ebikes are hands down the best choice.


I've got an old civic too. Too bad it's going to need a new $200 midpipe soon. I just replaced it 2.5 yrs ago. I'm always on the edge of whether I should keep it, I so rarely use it, and never actually NEED it. I agree that fuel is still quite cheap for driving though. If this was Europe, my ebike would be paid off 3x faster. But then again, the ebike allows me to go places I would never go in my car (downtown congested areas), that's priceless. Pedaling a normal bike is just not safe enough IMO, most of the time.

 

[neptronix]

yup yup.. e scooter / motorcycle and a heated motorcycle jacket would be the way i roll in the winter if i had a safe parking place for a 2 wheeler.

I'd love one that could pull about 50mph and carry me and my lady. Pack some major kWh into the frame and we could dump our car.

Take that $40 a month gasoline bill and turn it into $4-$10, also save major $$$ on insurance, may end up saving more like $60-$100 a month. That's a decent chunk towards retirement, health insurance, better quality food, more electric toys, or whatever

2 wheeled electric transport beats a gas fired car in every way if you are talking about economics, efficiency, and fun.

 

[zombiess]

I'd just end up with a TW200 at that point. I really want one anyway.

Look at the back tire on that badboy. It might top out at 65mph, but it's got torque for days, and will get you through anything on-road or off.

I'll second the TW-200, one of my absolute favorite dual sports of all time, now I want to go buy one but have no one to ride with. First time I saw it I laughed because I was being taught to ride on a KLR-650 by a friend who had 2 of them. Then a 3rd joined us for many of our 8 hour rides and I got knocked down to the TW-200. On the highway I could hit 72mph in a tuck drafting a semi, about 66 tucked no drafting and 60mph upright. Off road, I absolutely OWNED the two way more experienced riders on the KLR-650's as soon as the riding got even a little technical. I would just go right on through gravel and sand washes like nothing and was constantly waiting on them to catch up to me. I fell in love with that little TW-200 and use to love riding it instead of the bigger more powerful bike when going off road because it just went absolutely anywhere. A rider with almost only a little skill could ride it in technical terrain that slows or stops other dual sports (which I proved after they made fun of me the 1st time I rode it by complaining they were taking too long to get through the sections and I was falling asleep waiting for them to catch up).

 

[MikeFairbanks]

My ebike is coal-powered. Here in the South it's still the dominant way to produce electricity. I think it's about 60% nation-wide, and 20% nuclear (which pollutes the ground when the nuke-juice leaks out of the barrels in a cave somewhere). The other 20% is a mixture of hydro, solar, wind, and mice on little wheels, etc.

The TWs, by the way, have a bit of a cult following. People modify the crap out of them. There are huge online forums dedicated to that bike.

 

[John in CR]

A small gas moto here costs an extra $200/yr in registration and inspection costs, and you're looking at another $400/yr at least in gas in excess of what I spend on electricity for my bikes. $600/yr buys a lot of batteries and upgrades once you have a stable platform. Plus leaving the stoplights I own the gasser scooters and small motos, a fact that pisses them off every time. I can't wait for the day when I can take on the sportier stuff like LFP does. With no rules here I see it as the best thing I can do for the cause.

John

 

[veloman]

My ebike uses about 200watt hours each day. That's an INCREDIBLY insignificant amount of power compared to how much the aver home wastes each. It is absolute peanuts. Don't go telling me that my transportation is ANYWHERE near as polluting as a gasser that dumps toxic exhuast directly onto people who breath that air. You better be living in a teepee with no modern conviences if you think 200 wh a day is anything.

I could solar charge, but it makes no economical sense and would be like throwing pennies at a million dollar mortgage.

 

[dogman dan]

I owned a 150cc chinese gas scooter for a few years. Calculating costs, it cost the same 15 cents per mile my commuter ebike did. Pretty cheap to tag and insure one here. But it went 50 mph, while the ebike was limited to 30.

So why did I sell it? Becasue 15 miles on it left me quite uncomfortable by the time I got home, while the ebike was a lot more comfortable. A scoot that fit me would be very very different, but this chinese scoot was built for a guy 5'2" While I was 5'11". I never found a comfortable seat on the thing. If I sat forward, it cornered funny. If I scooted back, then the bars were too short.

Every time I see a guy with a new thread that wants to commute 30 miles at 50 mph, you see me say, "get a motorcycle"

 

[Ykick]

The "electricity comes from Coal plants" argument comes up every once in a while. My response to that is show me how many 100's of thousands of troops have been deployed to Coal mines? Nope, didn't think so...

And, at least whatever pollution my Coal plant produces it's usually kept in remote and often controlled area. Not some heavy, noisy, hot, ICE sitting idle sucking/burning air and pissing pollution into the immediate atmosphere I'm currently trying to breath.

Speaking of sitting at idle, another win for battery electric 'cause when you sit you use basically no energy so less Coal or whatever electric generating fuel needs to be consumed.

I entirely agree that battery electric isn't an exact and ideal replacement for many commuting transportation situations. It's a tool in your box best used when appropriate and move on to something else when it's not. But to argue for using a Ratchet to hammer a nail is simply ludicrous argument.