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My kick scooter project

My old LIPO packs are dieing. They are made of 8000mah cells, but I'm getting more like 2000mah from them now. I load tested all my battery packs over the weekend to see what state things were in. The LIPO packs proved to be less than stellar. I recently bought 13 10,000mah LIPO packs. I didn't have a plan for them, just found them for super cheap so I bought all I could afford. Anyway, yesterday I was stacking the LIPO packs in the battery bay and found that 10 of them were a perfect fit. Anyway, tonight I clamped them together nice and tight and then wrapped them in Kapton tape. Hopefully that will minimize any swelling that might happen. I don't have 4S balance cables yet, but they are on order so I should see them any day now and then I can connect up the packs to my charging system via a BMS. I removed the XT90 connectors on the packs and soldered the wires together to make up two 20S packs. My old LIPO packs will last a little while longer.

20S2P%2020000mah%20LIPO%20pack%201_zpsd0zt8gdd.jpg

20S2P%2020000mah%20LIPO%20pack%202_zpsip50nllt.jpg

20S2P%2020000mah%20LIPO%20pack%203_zpsemaghrqz.jpg


This is the adapter cable for the battery cables. Since it's two sets of 20S packs, the two XT90 cables come off the battery packs and then on the negative side combine together in a 6mm bullet to connect to the BMS. Then coming out of the BMS and going into the XT60's is to connect into the 4 XT60s I have been using in the battery bay since I first built the scooter. I'm just reusing what's already in place. Probably 4 XT60s is overkill, but at a possible maximum load of 200 amps, well you can't have too much capability.

20S2P%20LIPO%20adapter_zpsbot8aqxj.jpg
 
nice build thread. I just bought the motor and controller that you have from hyper sports for a project I'm working on. it's a 1600 watt brushless motor and controller 48 volt instead of 1500 watt. can you tell me what your stock gearing is on the scooter? what it came with from the factory. I'm currently running a 4 to 1 ratio and a t8f chain. using a my1020 48v 1000 watt motor and controller. I'm assuming your motor uses t8f chain also and from the pictures it looks like the motor sprocket is 11 tooth. I can't see the wheel sprocket clear enough to see how many teeth there are on it to get an idea on the gear ratio.
 
I wouldn't shrink wrap the lipo like that your putting immense pressure on the edge of the cells its not good better off squashing them with a plate to stop swelling.
 
Joecool said:
nice build thread. I just bought the motor and controller that you have from hyper sports for a project I'm working on. it's a 1600 watt brushless motor and controller 48 volt instead of 1500 watt. can you tell me what your stock gearing is on the scooter? what it came with from the factory. I'm currently running a 4 to 1 ratio and a t8f chain. using a my1020 48v 1000 watt motor and controller. I'm assuming your motor uses t8f chain also and from the pictures it looks like the motor sprocket is 11 tooth. I can't see the wheel sprocket clear enough to see how many teeth there are on it to get an idea on the gear ratio.

I'm pretty sure I say some where up in the beginning of this thread what my ratio was when I was running on t8f. I experimented with different gearing. I'm pretty sure the motor sprocket was 11 tooth, but I don't remember now. Keep in mind that your gearing will vary. If your tire diameter is smaller or larger than mine then you will gear differently. The tires on this scooter are 52 inches around. A larger diameter tire will require a higher ratios. A smaller diameter tire will require a lower ratio. For example a 26" tire on a bike needs something like 30:1, but 10" tire needs something like 3:1. It's all about the circumfrence of the tire. You want to keep your motor RPMs in the middle or higher end of its range as much as possible for most of your riding. That's where it runs best and is the most efficient. So then you measure your tire circumference and do some basic math to determine your speed for X number of tire rotations in Y time or MPH. This motor will get you to about 30 MPH so use that and work backwards to find your gearing.
 
Yeah I found it. About a 4 to 5-1 ratio. Nice thread but I wasn't going to wade thru 17 pages for that info...lol. No big deal, its not complicated or rocket science were are working with here. Simple math but you would think that people selling these scooters would have spec sheets for this very reason.
 
Joecool said:
Yeah I found it. About a 4 to 5-1 ratio. Nice thread but I wasn't going to wade thru 17 pages for that info...lol. No big deal, its not complicated or rocket science were are working with here. Simple math but you would think that people selling these scooters would have spec sheets for this very reason.

My experience with these sellers is they know virtually nothing about what they are selling. When I bought mine from Hyperpowersports, the dude didn't know what SLA batteries were, what kind of chain was on the scooter, etc. I found out lots of stuff and then told him about them.

On your ratio, go conservative...more like 5:1 rather than 4:1. There's a place where you can utilize maximum torque and the magnets are always a little less than saturation and a place where you can go more because you are much less than saturation. If you get your gearing too close to 1:1, then the motor is running in magnetic saturation all the time and it's overheating and sucking down the amps and not producing more torque. I messed with gear ratios on my 2000 watt BOMA quite a bit. I figured out what I was running that worked best...5.8:1 on 52" circumference tires. What is the circumference of your tires? The magnets in the BOMAs are not the best neo magnets around...probably N30 at most. Magnetic saturation comes at lower torque levels with weaker magnets than it does with stronger magnets. On this scooter, running the 1500 watt motor at 82 volts, and geared for the optimal torque for my wheel size, I topped out at 38mph. With the 2000 watt version running on 82 volts, I got 48mph on level ground. Anyway, I tried going to 4.9:1 and the 2000 watt BOMA sucked down the amps and could not push the scooter more than about 25 mph and got hot really fast. I was way over the magnetic saturation point. IE: Assume your gearing might not actually get you what you think...go a little conservative. There's a limited selection of driver sprockets in t8f (9,11, 12 and 15 if I remember right). Same for wheel sprockets (72, 64, 54). So your gearing ratios are pretty limited. I got a couple of adapters made for the BOMA shaft so I could use 219 driver sprockets instead. In 219, drivers come in 11 to 18 tooth and wheel sprockets come in 40, 50, 60 and single tooth increments up to like 200 tooth. And 219 is far better quality and much tougher and significantly quieter than t8f. T8f is good for maybe 3000 watts. 219 can handle probably 10,000 watts. When I was running my 2000 watt BOMA at 3500 watts and t8f, I broke my chain several times. Probably every couple of weeks I was putting it back together again. Just stay within its design limits and you are fine.

If you are interested, I have all the driver sprockets there are and 54 and 64 tooth wheel sprockets. I'm not using them anymore so I would be willing to sell them and any t8f chain I have. Just PM me if you want them and we can work out a price.
 
I pulled my old LIPO packs and replaced them with the new LIPO pack I put together from 10,000mah Turnigy packs. The 4S balance cables arrived today, so I was able to adapt my BMS to work with the 4S Turnigy packs balance cables tonight. My old LIPO packs have multiple seriously weak cells in them. I'll have to take them apart and cull the bad cells and then recombine them into good packs again. Anyway, I tried the scooter a little tonight and I had forgotten just how crazy powerful it used to be before the LIPO packs started petering out. You know how it goes...batteries don't usually die suddenly...they slowly fade away. The new LIPOs are really strong.

This is the LIPO pack and BMS set up to manage them, plus an extra set of balance wires. Before I connected anything to the battery pack or BMS, I tested every balance wire and connector to make sure I didn't miswire anything. Those JST connectors can't handle but maybe 1 amp. Connect something wrong and have them sink a LIPO pack and they will melt down instantly. Anyway, got it right the first time.

20S2P%2020000mah%20LIPO%20packs%203_zpsusysdpbo.jpg


This is the new pack in the scooter and all hooked up. That tangle of wires in there spills out if the lipo pack that was holding them in place is removed. That space is big enough for the squarish pack that used to be in there. I'll probably rebuild the old cells into a pack for that space. More capacity is better than less! I'll have to add another set of power wires to the power adapter cable for the rebuilt pack.

20S2P%2020000mah%20LIPO%20packs%202_zpsdwxeky2g.jpg
 
ElectricGod said:
Joecool said:
Yeah I found it. About a 4 to 5-1 ratio. Nice thread but I wasn't going to wade thru 17 pages for that info...lol. No big deal, its not complicated or rocket science were are working with here. Simple math but you would think that people selling these scooters would have spec sheets for this very reason.

My experience with these sellers is they know virtually nothing about what they are selling. When I bought mine from Hyperpowersports, the dude didn't know what SLA batteries were, what kind of chain was on the scooter, etc. I found out lots of stuff and then told him about them.

On your ratio, go conservative...more like 5:1 rather than 4:1. There's a place where you can utilize maximum torque and the magnets are always a little less than saturation and a place where you can go more because you are much less than saturation. If you get your gearing too close to 1:1, then the motor is running in magnetic saturation all the time and it's overheating and sucking down the amps and not producing more torque. I messed with gear ratios on my 2000 watt BOMA quite a bit. I figured out what I was running that worked best...5.8:1 on 52" circumference tires. What is the circumference of your tires? The magnets in the BOMAs are not the best neo magnets around...probably N30 at most. Magnetic saturation comes at lower torque levels with weaker magnets than it does with stronger magnets. On this scooter, running the 1500 watt motor at 82 volts, and geared for the optimal torque for my wheel size, I topped out at 38mph. With the 2000 watt version running on 82 volts, I got 48mph on level ground. Anyway, I tried going to 4.9:1 and the 2000 watt BOMA sucked down the amps and could not push the scooter more than about 25 mph and got hot really fast. I was way over the magnetic saturation point. IE: Assume your gearing might not actually get you what you think...go a little conservative. There's a limited selection of driver sprockets in t8f (9,11, 12 and 15 if I remember right). Same for wheel sprockets (72, 64, 54). So your gearing ratios are pretty limited. I got a couple of adapters made for the BOMA shaft so I could use 219 driver sprockets instead. In 219, drivers come in 11 to 18 tooth and wheel sprockets come in 40, 50, 60 and single tooth increments up to like 200 tooth. And 219 is far better quality and much tougher and significantly quieter than t8f. T8f is good for maybe 3000 watts. 219 can handle probably 10,000 watts. When I was running my 2000 watt BOMA at 3500 watts and t8f, I broke my chain several times. Probably every couple of weeks I was putting it back together again. Just stay within its design limits and you are fine.

If you are interested, I have all the driver sprockets there are and 54 and 64 tooth wheel sprockets. I'm not using them anymore so I would be willing to sell them and any t8f chain I have. Just PM me if you want them and we can work out a price.

Thanks for the offer. My tire size is 9 inch with a t8f 44 wheel sprocket. I also have a 10T,11T and 13T motor sprocket. Yep, the gearing selection is quite limited. I was running 11/44 on the 48V 1000W motor. Was getting about 20 mph on flat and 18 mph up severe hills around my way. Temps on the motor were about 125F so pretty good on the that. Tried the 13T and that got me too about 25 mph on the flats but temps were near 150 and could smell the motor. Thats why Im thinking 4-5-1 ratio is the sweet spot. This is however a 1600W 48V @4800RPM so should give me about 30 mph at a 4 to 1 ratio roughly. What I really hate is the controller has no meaningful label on it at all. Im assuming it has LVC and OVC but who knows. I got the motor and phase wires , throttle and battery connections worked out, but do you have a pic of your connections for the brake cutoff and power switch connections? Not sure which ones they are? Im currently using a thumb throttle with a power meter. Although I usually wire in a 15-120V LED voltmeter off the main battery connector to see my actual voltage. Im running 2 6S lipos in series and balance charge them. Coming from the rc hobby I take for granted the endless spur pinion options available to me compared to EVs it seems. For the wiring harness on the controller, I literally took a voltmeter and turned it on to find out where the power was going in order to hook it up. There is a smaller red and black connector that shows 48V. The connector is red, what is that 48V for? Thanks for the help.
 
Joecool said:
ElectricGod said:
Joecool said:
Yeah I found it. About a 4 to 5-1 ratio. Nice thread but I wasn't going to wade thru 17 pages for that info...lol. No big deal, its not complicated or rocket science were are working with here. Simple math but you would think that people selling these scooters would have spec sheets for this very reason.

My experience with these sellers is they know virtually nothing about what they are selling. When I bought mine from Hyperpowersports, the dude didn't know what SLA batteries were, what kind of chain was on the scooter, etc. I found out lots of stuff and then told him about them.

On your ratio, go conservative...more like 5:1 rather than 4:1. There's a place where you can utilize maximum torque and the magnets are always a little less than saturation and a place where you can go more because you are much less than saturation. If you get your gearing too close to 1:1, then the motor is running in magnetic saturation all the time and it's overheating and sucking down the amps and not producing more torque. I messed with gear ratios on my 2000 watt BOMA quite a bit. I figured out what I was running that worked best...5.8:1 on 52" circumference tires. What is the circumference of your tires? The magnets in the BOMAs are not the best neo magnets around...probably N30 at most. Magnetic saturation comes at lower torque levels with weaker magnets than it does with stronger magnets. On this scooter, running the 1500 watt motor at 82 volts, and geared for the optimal torque for my wheel size, I topped out at 38mph. With the 2000 watt version running on 82 volts, I got 48mph on level ground. Anyway, I tried going to 4.9:1 and the 2000 watt BOMA sucked down the amps and could not push the scooter more than about 25 mph and got hot really fast. I was way over the magnetic saturation point. IE: Assume your gearing might not actually get you what you think...go a little conservative. There's a limited selection of driver sprockets in t8f (9,11, 12 and 15 if I remember right). Same for wheel sprockets (72, 64, 54). So your gearing ratios are pretty limited. I got a couple of adapters made for the BOMA shaft so I could use 219 driver sprockets instead. In 219, drivers come in 11 to 18 tooth and wheel sprockets come in 40, 50, 60 and single tooth increments up to like 200 tooth. And 219 is far better quality and much tougher and significantly quieter than t8f. T8f is good for maybe 3000 watts. 219 can handle probably 10,000 watts. When I was running my 2000 watt BOMA at 3500 watts and t8f, I broke my chain several times. Probably every couple of weeks I was putting it back together again. Just stay within its design limits and you are fine.

If you are interested, I have all the driver sprockets there are and 54 and 64 tooth wheel sprockets. I'm not using them anymore so I would be willing to sell them and any t8f chain I have. Just PM me if you want them and we can work out a price.

Thanks for the offer. My tire size is 9 inch with a t8f 44 wheel sprocket. I also have a 10T,11T and 13T motor sprocket. Yep, the gearing selection is quite limited. I was running 11/44 on the 48V 1000W motor. Was getting about 20 mph on flat and 18 mph up severe hills around my way. Temps on the motor were about 125F so pretty good on the that. Tried the 13T and that got me too about 25 mph on the flats but temps were near 150 and could smell the motor. Thats why Im thinking 4-5-1 ratio is the sweet spot. This is however a 1600W 48V @4800RPM so should give me about 30 mph at a 4 to 1 ratio roughly. What I really hate is the controller has no meaningful label on it at all. Im assuming it has LVC and OVC but who knows. I got the motor and phase wires , throttle and battery connections worked out, but do you have a pic of your connections for the brake cutoff and power switch connections? Not sure which ones they are? Im currently using a thumb throttle with a power meter. Although I usually wire in a 15-120V LED voltmeter off the main battery connector to see my actual voltage. Im running 2 6S lipos in series and balance charge them. Coming from the rc hobby I take for granted the endless spur pinion options available to me compared to EVs it seems. For the wiring harness on the controller, I literally took a voltmeter and turned it on to find out where the power was going in order to hook it up. There is a smaller red and black connector that shows 48V. The connector is red, what is that 48V for? Thanks for the help.

Cheap Chinese controllers usually have LVC...mine do and they are are 48 volt so it is supposed to cut off at 36 volts. They are generally close to 36 volts...but not dead on. OVC cutoff is only useful for regen. If you are running the expected voltage in your batteries, then OVC never happens and most of these controllers don't do anything if you are over voltage. I was running 12S LIPO and charging to 4.2 volts or 50.4 volts. The SLA's that originally came with the scooter charged to 56 volts and that had no effect on the controller either. On my Kelly controller I use regen and it disables the controller if I exceed my set battery voltage during regen. If it happens, I'm probably going down a steep hill very slowly and regen is at maximum. I just turn off the key and I'm good to go again. I doubt your controller supports regen. Post a pic of your controller and connectors...maybe I can tell you what controller it is and cable connections. Probably that red connector is parallel to the power wires and is for charging. There's probably a connector labeled braking or brakes or something like that...when the brake switch closes, it disables the motor. I disconnected that stuff a long time ago and never looked back. I run a much more powerful setup now and if it wasn't for variable regen via brake sensors, I wouldn't even connect up the brake switches to the controller. Oh wait...still didn't. LOL. That's what taking your thumb off the throttle is for. I have 2 smaller kick scooters and an electric moped. The brake switches only turn on the brake lights. Anyway, you obviously need the power, phase and hall connections. I suggest also using the keyswitch/enable connection so you can turn off the controller. Everything else is optional. I never unplug the batteries from the scooter except if I need to service something. Your controller if it is disabled will draw 10-15ma so that's going to take weeks to make a dent in your battery capacity. There's no compelling reason to disconnect power usually.

Your thumb throttle shows you voltage, but nothing about current draw or wattage used or much of anything else. Consider it a power light and not good for much else.

Get one of these watt meters and wire it inline with the entire electrical system. Mount the meter on your handlebars. If the 50 amp shunt is too small for your needs, get a larger shunt. It's too small...trust me...just get a bigger shunt. I've bought several of them and they cost like $20 on ebay. Great little meter! I of course need much more than 50 amps so I spent another $6 or $8 on a larger shunt. I probably have 6 or more of these little meters. I use them on my chargers, scooters, load testers...whatever. Also buy some Kapton tape. It's high temp tape. You can put a soldering iron on it and it wont melt. The glue on the tape is stellar and wont turn gummy or dry out. The meter is yellow colored becasue it is wrapped/encased in Kapton to make it weather proof. I've left the scooter in the rain all day, ridden home soaking wet in driving rain...the meter stays dry.

Watt20Meter_zpsvamdjvne.jpg
 
Good tip for the Kapton tape. Took me about a 1/2 hour but I finally figured out the on off controller switch using a voltmeter. As you can see from the pics, the Controller tells you nothing. Have to finish installing the bullet connectors on the controller and motor and finish the motor mount assembly. Using a 1/2 aluminum 5x7 piece of remnant. Going to try to wire in the voltmeter so that when the thumb throttle switch is off , the voltmeter wont display. How I wired it before was to wire it in on the battery lead. That worked and showed the actual voltage under load, sag, etc. But I have to unplug the lipos in order to turn off the voltmeter. I like your idea better so I dont have to unplug the lipos unless Im charging them. When I say voltmeter, Im referring to a 15-120V meter, not the power meter on the throttle. I agree the throttle power meter isn't worth much, however I could not find a thumb throttle with an on/off switch that didnt have the power meter on it. I wanted an on/off switch on the throttle. Also my wife hated the twist throttle and refused to ride the scooter with it on there. Me, I like both, does not really matter to me, twist or thumb. Ironically enough this scooter that is a bladez 350 originally came with a lever throttle. My wife loved that throttle but I sold all the original parts to pay for the brushless awesomeness that I doing to it now. I will have to get creative with the placement of the controller to get it all to fit in the deck so the lid goes down. Should be enough room in it once I remove the bracket that you can see in the pic. The motor does fire up and controller works on the bench. I tested both my throttle and the VIN is 4.4 and VOUT on both is from .80- 3.6 volts so were looking good there. This will be the 3rd motor Ive put on this scooter in the last month. The first was a zy1020, then a my1020, now a boma brushless all of them 48V. Contrary to a few suggestions that Ive got on here, the zy1020 and the my1020 are not the same motor. One has a 20.6A output and the other has a 26.8A output. Using the same gearing and lipos, I noticed an increase in torque and speed when switching the motors. Also the motor shafts are the same and you can swap out sprockets with no modding what so ever between the two. They both use a dual d sprocket that is 10mm by 8.5mm. So Im looking forward to seeing how the brushless motor performs compared to the other 2. Im expecting a little more torque and efficiency and speed out of the brushless with the same gearing and lipos.
 

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Joecool said:
Good tip for the Kapton tape. Took me about a 1/2 hour but I finally figured out the on off controller switch using a voltmeter. As you can see from the pics, the Controller tells you nothing. Have to finish installing the bullet connectors on the controller and motor and finish the motor mount assembly. Using a 1/2 aluminum 5x7 piece of remnant. Going to try to wire in the voltmeter so that when the thumb throttle switch is off , the voltmeter wont display. How I wired it before was to wire it in on the battery lead. That worked and showed the actual voltage under load, sag, etc. But I have to unplug the lipos in order to turn off the voltmeter. I like your idea better so I dont have to unplug the lipos unless Im charging them. When I say voltmeter, Im referring to a 15-120V meter, not the power meter on the throttle. I agree the throttle power meter isn't worth much, however I could not find a thumb throttle with an on/off switch that didnt have the power meter on it. I wanted an on/off switch on the throttle. Also my wife hated the twist throttle and refused to ride the scooter with it on there. Me, I like both, does not really matter to me, twist or thumb. Ironically enough this scooter that is a bladez 350 originally came with a lever throttle. My wife loved that throttle but I sold all the original parts to pay for the brushless awesomeness that I doing to it now. I will have to get creative with the placement of the controller to get it all to fit in the deck so the lid goes down. Should be enough room in it once I remove the bracket that you can see in the pic. The motor does fire up and controller works on the bench. I tested both my throttle and the VIN is 4.4 and VOUT on both is from .80- 3.6 volts so were looking good there. This will be the 3rd motor Ive put on this scooter in the last month. The first was a zy1020, then a my1020, now a boma brushless all of them 48V. Contrary to a few suggestions that Ive got on here, the zy1020 and the my1020 are not the same motor. One has a 20.6A output and the other has a 26.8A output. Using the same gearing and lipos, I noticed an increase in torque and speed when switching the motors. Also the motor shafts are the same and you can swap out sprockets with no modding what so ever between the two. They both use a dual d sprocket that is 10mm by 8.5mm. So Im looking forward to seeing how the brushless motor performs compared to the other 2. Im expecting a little more torque and efficiency and speed out of the brushless with the same gearing and lipos.

For the same volts and amp's you will lose torque and gain rpms thats what I experienced with it.
And I wouldn't wrap batterys into a big Pyle its not ideal at all think of cooling and the pressure on the edge of the outer cells you'll find out after a ride when its boiling.
 
thanks for the input. The same volts and amps I would think the opposite on the brushless motor cuz it'll be running at lower RPM. I'm not sure though because I haven't read it yet. not sure what the lipos in a bag are tough. I'm using 2 6 s lipos in series. no problems with those at all really in my previous rides with them on the other Motors and controllers.

speaking of which how would you guys wire in a volt meter so that when the throttle switch is off the voltmeter won't display? I previously had it wired it straight from the main battery connector and that works but if I'm not riding the scooter the voltmeter is always on with no way to turn it off unless I unplug the batteries.
 
Joecool said:
thanks for the input. The same volts and amps I would think the opposite on the brushless motor cuz it'll be running at lower RPM. I'm not sure though because I haven't read it yet. not sure what the lipos in a bag are tough. I'm using 2 6 s lipos in series. no problems with those at all really in my previous rides with them on the other Motors and controllers.

speaking of which how would you guys wire in a volt meter so that when the throttle switch is off the voltmeter won't display? I previously had it wired it straight from the main battery connector and that works but if I'm not riding the scooter the voltmeter is always on with no way to turn it off unless I unplug the batteries.

This is easy. So two things.

1. I'm with your wife...for a stand up ride, a thumb throttle is more stable. For a sit down ride it doesn't matter. I had two different types of twist throttles on my scooter. Of course it's quite powerful so that makes a difference somewhat too. Anyway on a stand-up ride you need to hang on as your hands and feet are your only points of stability. A twisting throttle in your hand as you go over bumps or whatever can significantly alter your throttle position. I prefer a thumb throttle. This one is the best I have found and they are pretty cheap. Use the button for whatever...like enabling the controller.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V-Twist-Throttle-Thumb-Assembly-For-E-bike-Electric-Bike-Scooter-LED-Meter-/141682873650?hash=item20fcf51532:g:OocAAOSwpdpVbVgn

Regarding your meter. Put it inline with your key switch. The key switch turns on batt+ for the controller logic components, but not for the mosfets. Use the key switch to turn on/off the voltage display.

Regarding motor wattage...
Any given motor can only handle so much wattage...whether that's lots of current or voltage. If you want your motor to spin faster then more voltage will make that happen. Torque is a direct relationship between the magnets and the coils. The coils once the iron is saturated, won't make a stronger magnetic feild. The magnets only have so much magnetic force in them so they too have limits. These two maximum limits are the ideal limits of your motor. Reality is probably 80% of that ideal due to heat build up as you reach deeper and deeper into the saturation limits. Next is the size of the windings. Higher AWG wire (smaller diameter) can handle less current that lower AWG (larger diameter) wire. A strand of wire no thicker than your hair can handle a million volts as long as current draw is low. Also, the dielectric of typical transformer wire is several thousand volts. IE: Run the motor at whatever voltage you can deliver to it. More is quite literally better than less...up to a point and definitely better than lots of current since the windings won't handle it. Torque at the wheel is not the same thing as torque at the motor. Spin the motor as fast as you can reasonably and then gear it down to the wheel speed you need. In the process you will be converting motor RPMs into torque at the wheel. It's wheel torque that makes you get up to speed faster and be able to retain that speed on a hill.
 
Regarding the lipo batteries you just bought... I assume you know that turnigy is the hobby king house brand. Usually the best price is direct from their site and shipping isn't too bad either, if you buy a decent amount of stuff. Check out the shipping tables ... Kind of confusing sometimes, but worth it. Also, it can be cheaper to buy from your local warehouse than the global one in Southeast Asia.

Anyway, the 16000 mah 4s packs are $50 direct:
https://www.hobbyking.com/en_us/multistar-high-capacity-4s-16000mah-multi-rotor-lipo-pack.html

Just FYI...
 
Peregrine said:
Regarding the lipo batteries you just bought... I assume you know that turnigy is the hobby king house brand. Usually the best price is direct from their site and shipping isn't too bad either, if you buy a decent amount of stuff. Check out the shipping tables ... Kind of confusing sometimes, but worth it. Also, it can be cheaper to buy from your local warehouse than the global one in Southeast Asia.

Anyway, the 16000 mah 4s packs are $50 direct:
https://www.hobbyking.com/en_us/multistar-high-capacity-4s-16000mah-multi-rotor-lipo-pack.html

Just FYI...

When I bought the packs I have they were selling for $80 each on HK. Also HK is notoriously bad about keeping things in stock or not being able to tell you when they will have that item in stock. I refuse to buy from them. They pretty much suck in every way possible. Also, I have a source now for anything battery related that is reliable and cheap.
 
Joecool said:
speaking of which how would you guys wire in a volt meter so that when the throttle switch is off the voltmeter won't display? I previously had it wired it straight from the main battery connector and that works but if I'm not riding the scooter the voltmeter is always on with no way to turn it off unless I unplug the batteries.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=43586

This should help you i just found it, its a simular set up to what I use but my relay is only a car 12v 10amp, my shunt has a low voltage over current setting that controls a 12v relay i use that to turn the controller switch live on, it takes no main current so I have digital adjustment of cutout off settings. And I use a two stage key ignition switch to control my lights on second click and shunt on the first then I go controller live with the shunt dash display buttons to arm the relay and it goes then, I also have a emergency switch ( mains battery connector) so if its all gone tits up I can lift the lid pull one xt90 and its dead to the world in matter of seconds.
 
Ianhill said:
Joecool said:
speaking of which how would you guys wire in a volt meter so that when the throttle switch is off the voltmeter won't display? I previously had it wired it straight from the main battery connector and that works but if I'm not riding the scooter the voltmeter is always on with no way to turn it off unless I unplug the batteries.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=43586

This should help you i just found it, its a simular set up to what I use but my relay is only a car 12v 10amp, my shunt has a low voltage over current setting that controls a 12v relay i use that to turn the controller switch live on, it takes no main current so I have digital adjustment of cutout off settings. And I use a two stage key ignition switch to control my lights on second click and shunt on the first then I go controller live with the shunt dash display buttons to arm the relay and it goes then, I also have a emergency switch ( mains battery connector) so if its all gone tits up I can lift the lid pull one xt90 and its dead to the world in matter of seconds.

Admittedly my scooter is much more complex over all than your ride, but I eliminated all the fuses and power cutoffs. If I want to disconnect the batteries I have a couple of bullet connectors to pull apart. Even then, my battery box and deck are screwed shut so if I don't have the right sized security torx handy, I'm not getting in to unplug anything. At one point I considered adding a 180 amp rotary switch, but it's quite large and I decided not to. So far so good. That 12 volt contactor relay is a good idea. They key switch enables the DC-DC converter which then turns on the contactor coil. I had considered something like this, but my controller has a keyswitch I wanted to use and it takes 5 volts to operate.
 
True there is a lot more going on with your more lights batterys capacity the lot, You do use it as a daily commuter mind where mines been more of leisure machine for kicks its off road more than on, I wanted it to be light enough to lift over a fence or through my house, and its 38kg so its a lump of a machine but liftable, In a game of top trumps no pun intended i win on weight and cost, range, power and controller etc I'm beat hands down but my card is still respectable its not the turd sandwich card in the deck by far both are cooking on fart gas from the stock steel horses they once were.
 
Ianhill said:
True there is a lot more going on with your more lights batterys capacity the lot, You do use it as a daily commuter mind where mines been more of leisure machine for kicks its off road more than on, I wanted it to be light enough to lift over a fence or through my house, and its 38kg so its a lump of a machine but liftable, In a game of top trumps no pun intended i win on weight and cost, range, power and controller etc I'm beat hands down but my card is still respectable its not the turd sandwich card in the deck by far both are cooking on fart gas from the stock steel horses they once were.

The things you say...lol
too bad we are across the pond. I'd like to buy you a beer.

Your ride is not anything to laugh at. I would ride it! I'm building up the Currie and it's about the same weight as yours. It will get lights, watt meter, horn, directionals, etc after a while and do a respectable 40mph. It will completely surprise drivers in cars since it's so small and then will smoke them. HA!
 
I have those new LIPOs in the scooter now. I was curious how far I would get on a charge now that the old LIPOs are gone. I got a respectable 45 miles. That's not bad! I picked up 15 miles range over what I had before this.
 
I think a few beers later there be a drawing on the back of a napkin and a few months later one of us be dead :D
 
Ianhill said:
I think a few beers later there be a drawing on the back of a napkin and a few months later one of us be dead :D

From? Electrocution or too much speed/power? I'm all for too much speed and power. I figure I'll die on the grill of an SUV driven by some mom not looking at where she's going. I will be hanging onto some diminutive ride that is way too powerful for its own good and I'll be trying to pass a Porsche. The mom in her Toyota Sequoia will pull out thinking I'm slow, but actually I'm doing 60 on 12" tires and then I'll be road pizza on her grill.
 
Too much power no doubt.
I know its wrong but my old metro (car) was this silly looking small british hatchback and was heavily modded to do 150mph and 0-60 in 6 seconds if it was dry enough for grip otherwise it would just spin, It used to spin the wheels doing 70mph, 3rd gear in the dry.
You can imagine the troubles I used to get in to with it far to illegal to put on a forum lucky I lived through it and managed to grow up.
That would be my ultimate build a car with massive drag speeds and can handle a bend or two.
 
Ianhill said:
Too much power no doubt.
I know its wrong but my old metro (car) was this silly looking small british hatchback and was heavily modded to do 150mph and 0-60 in 6 seconds if it was dry enough for grip otherwise it would just spin, It used to spin the wheels doing 70mph, 3rd gear in the dry.
You can imagine the troubles I used to get in to with it far to illegal to put on a forum lucky I lived through it and managed to grow up.
That would be my ultimate build a car with massive drag speeds and can handle a bend or two.

I have my eye on a mini. It would be a great car for an EV build. Small, light, decent handling and a hatch back for all those batteries to sit in. I'm thinking AWD with no transmission...just a motor on each wheel. Some minor additional circuitry to change throttle for curves so the outside wheels drive harder than the inside wheels and it's a done deal. Powering the outside wheels harder than the inside wheels would make this car take turns like they weren't there. Then with 10kw per wheel, the car would do something like 0-60 in 3 seconds and you would have a supercar competitor. It would be one BAD ASS mini!

Are you talking about the Geo Metro? I had one of those but fast it wasn't. The 3 banger, 1 litre motor in there had enough juice in it to run the AC, the wheels, but not both at the same time. Taking hills was a lot of high motor RPMS and very little speed.

IS any of this worse than people like doctorbass and liveforphysics with their heavy frame bicycles that do 110+ mph?
 
View attachment 2
The white stuff is snow if some of you are wondering

Ive had 3 of them black one was normally aspirated 110bhp then the snow one was 160bhp, then I built the light green 200bhp turbo.
I may build a forth next year I got one last fight left in me
 
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