Assessing interest in MXUS 205/35H V2

spinningmagnets

spinningmagnets

100 TW
Joined
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Messages
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If there is enough interest in this configuration, we may be able to get it added to their catalog. Here's the competition:

Leafbike 1500W
pro:
Strong axle
Thin 0.35mm lams
35mm wide stator allows 7-speed freewheel
con:
No option for aluminum mass in stator support
Factory wants to sell direct, no bulk purchase dealer discounts, which results in no US-based dealer.

Crystalyte H35xx
pro:
35mm wide stator is the widest available that still permits a 7-speed freewheel
con:
High power + regen + jumps = broken axle
Thicker 0.50mm lams
If you want aluminum mass in stator support, they want you to buy more expensive "Crown" series motor, but no option for Crown 7-speed

MXUS 1000W V2
Pro:
Thin 0.35mm laminations
Thick aluminum stator support as a heat-sponge
28mm wide stator easily allows 7-speed freewheel
Con:
Stator could be wider and still allow 7-speed freewheel that still "drops in" to common 135mm drop-outs

What I'm suggesting
MXUS 3000W V2 has room for 2-speed and 45mm wide stator, most use a single-speed freewheel

Factory can take a 3000W V2, and narrow the stator "just enough" to fit a 7-speed freewheel (35-ish mm wide stator?). Would have thin lams and aluminum stator support, 3000W axle and phase wires...the factory already makes a 35mm wide magnet rim, so...they already have all the parts on the shelf.
 
Yes, even just a 45mm wide stator has a significant amount of power potential, but only allows a single-speed freewheel. The 45mm 3000W V2 seems to be selling better than the 50mm Cromotor because:

Costs less, still provides big power (not as big as the Cro, but..."big enough" for many).
Drops into common 135mm drop-outs (Cro is 145-155mm dropouts, depending on dealer spec).

The question then becomes: If a lot of builders till want a 7-speed freewheel (freehub cassette costs more, plus is wider, limiting the width of the stator)...what is the widest a stator can be made and still fit a 135mm drop-out? The Leaf motor has inspired a lot of passion in a small group of early adopters, but there is no aluminum stator-support available. The MXUS 1000W has all the desirable guts, except...the narrower 28mm stator is not arousing enough sales to keep it in production. In fact, although the YescomUSA 28mm "9C" clone is junk, it is selling very cheap, so 28mm wide stators are not something people will pay more for, even with thin lam and ally stator support added.

Leafbike will NOT consider making an aluminum core for the 1500W, and...MXUS will make a 35mm wide stator with all the goodies, if...there is enough interest.
 
I personally love the MXUS 1000W v2. Had mine since Thanksgiving. It has most of the torque that I use from the 3000W, without the weight or size. My bike builds are less focused on power and more focused on efficiency and versatility.

I've been using single gear in back, three up front. I've found that's more than enough for most purposes, as the motor can take care of everything the rider can't. 8)

Next I'm trying out Grin's Statorade Ferrofluid.

Edit: I just saw the last line. A 3000W that's slightly narrower/lighter sounds pretty neat. I'd probably offer it to my customers for custom or DIY builds.
 
Both mine are only 500W :mrgreen: Been feeding them with 1070W three years without problems. 17 000km. Enough power if you pedal too.
IMO five-speed freewheel is enough with DD. Yes, you may have to replace the chain, etc adjusting, but it"s cheap.
I might buy that bigger MXUS one day though for my velomobile, if my joints start to ache too much. Velomobile with wide DD would be great fun.
 
As stated, if you order a Minimum Order Quantity (MOQ), you can get anything you want, if it's physically doable. Pay cash up front for 100-200 units (depending on how exotic your spec is), and it's a done deal...
 
spinningmagnets said:
As stated, if you order a Minimum Order Quantity (MOQ), you can get anything you want, if it's physically doable. Pay cash up front for 100-200 units (depending on how exotic your spec is), and it's a done deal...
Click to expand...

I'd guess that a super powerful and efficient motor fitting a normal bike dropout would be much more interesting to most member than a weaker mxus.

I'd be up to get something like that, and not really interested to have a 7 speed on a motor over 1000W
 
A few people have their hands on a MXUS 28mm stator width motor with all the V2 internal upgrades. Thin lams, fat phase wires from the factory, phase wires exit axle inside the drop-outs, thick and strong axle, thick aluminum stator support to absorb heat spikes. However...there doesn't seem to be much passion for them in spite of glowing reports.

Everyone who tries the Leafbike 1500W loves it. Lighter and cheaper than the MXUS 3000W, 7-speeds available, and yet...Leafbike is not interested in a US-based dealer, or in upgrading the stator support to thick aluminum

I personally believe that 28mm wide stator hubmotors are limited on how much power they can make (even with efficient internal upgrades), and also products like the EBAY yescom hubs are so cheap, very few will pay extra for the good stuff, because burning out a Yescom is cheap to replace.

The MXUS 3000W V2 is selling well, and will remain available to the ebike community, especially since it has established a new standard as to what a good bang-for-your-buck hub is capable of. The 28mm MXUS V2 might not remain available unless sales pick up (maybe they will in the spring?). However, the people who have historically paid extra to get an upgraded product, they also want more power avaliable.

The 7mm extra width in the stator (between the 28mm and the 35mm) is less than the width of your little finger, but...it may be just enough. It would be a very small bump in price and weight. And yet, it would still "drop in" to stock drop-outs (with torque-plates outside the drop-outs, of course). There might not be enough of a market for the 28H V2 to survive, and there definitely isn't enough market for the 28H and the 35H to both survive. But...going to the 35H would definitely put it in a completely different class from the millions of 28mm 1000W Yescom clones. That would be a product that would have staying power, and remain available.

All the parts exist on the shelf right now...no unobtainium needed, no vaporware. The thin lams on the 28H V2 and the 45H V2 (3000W) are the same, and would plug right into a 35H. The V2 aluminum stator support is the same, and they already have a 35mm magnet "height" (35H, we call it width) stator. We would of course spec the stronger 3000W axle (Crystalyte will not do this for us). Fat phase wires from the factory? the 3000W wires drop right in. If you only run 1500W, you'd never have to give a second thought to the motor or phase wires overheating.

We have an opportunity to make ebike history here. All I'm asking is that we talk about it...
 
Thanks spinningmagnets as I didn't know that. But I would probably get a motor with that chinese writing on the side. Trying to see what teslanv has.
 
Can you estimate cost for the MXUS 35mm V2 (laced into a wheel already if possible but not necessary). If reasonable price, ill take one, prepay if needed, and wait the couple months for delivery.
 
For the record, I have a motor with a 205mm stator in a 19-inch moped rim, using a 2-1/4 inch street tire (which is likely to be replaced with a 3-inch tire when it gets worn out). The outside diameter of the tire is an exact 24-inches. This motor in a 5T configuration using a 52V battery (in 24-inch tire), would have an unloaded RPM of 478, and if max efficiency is at 80% max RPM, then cruise speed would be best at 382-RPM = 28-MPH (45 km/h)

"Wheel diameter to speed/RPM chart"
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=16114
 
Sorry for someone new to ebike what would be the benefit of running a 28mm wide stator vs. the one that KMS and roadrunner carry which I believe are 45mm stator if I am correct?
I recently purchase a 6t mxus v2 from Kinaya MS so far I am enjoying the torque that the 6t 45mm wide stator gives.
I am looking to purchase another hub motor next year to give me a bit more speed. I am topping out at 30mph on my recumbent @ 90v.

I guess 28mm stator is alot lighter then a 45mm?
How is the torque/ amp draw/ rpm if you compared same turn motor (i.e 5t 28mm vs 5t 45mm)
Would the hub be able to use bicycle rim being smaller? or do we still have to use moped rims?

Thank you.
 
The common battery cell is a lithium-based chemistry that is 3.7V average per cell. A 14 cell "in series" battery (14S) will provide 52V average (nominal) to the system. If you want the battery to have a higher voltage, it will need more cells in series, which leads to a larger and more expensive battery. However more volts means more power with less heat, and heat is the limiting enemy.

The size of your frame and budget determine how many volts you can use. Once max volts are determined, the max power is determined by how much current you battery can provide (amps) and how much heat you motor can survive. If your battery can provide a lot of amps, then the power limit is how many amps worth of heat you motor can survive. The wider the stator = the more copper mass the motor has, and the more amps it can use without overheating.

A 28mm wide stator can provide "X" amount of watts before overheating (its power limit). A 35mm wide stator motor that is identical in all other respects is capable of 25% more watts.

To increase speed, you must either increase voltage, or increase the motor Kv (exchange the motor you have, for a lower turn-count version). More amp-capability (wider stator) will increase torque and acceleration, but will not increase top-speed.

How is the torque/ amp draw/ rpm if you compared same turn motor (i.e 5t 28mm vs 5t 45mm)
Click to expand...

At the same watts, both motors will perform the same. The wider motor will run cooler at the same watts. if you provide more watts, the thinner motor will get hotter. If the 28mm gets too hot, you will have to cap the amps at the max heat level. The wider motor is heavier and more expensive, but it can accept more power before it gets too hot. The wide motor at high watts will accelerate faster than a thin motor at low watts. A wide motor at high watts will also drain the battery faster.
 
What is your riding terrain ? Flat or all down hill ? The 28mm is easier to melt. I have a lot of hills. So a balance might be a 35mm or 30mm at 3100watts 72v 40amp.
 
I have a 3,000 5t @ 3100 watts alxe rs 28mm rim. The problem is it runs at 37mph and fly I street to sidewalk onto grass, and beats my rim. I need a bike and not franken bike, but looks homeless to prevent loose.
So I'm looking for a more street worthy setup. I melted a em3ev 28mm @ 3100 watts in 20min with a hill at the end. So the 35mm and 4t laced in a 26in bike rim. I was looking at the 1,500 watt green time hub, but didn't know the wire exit.
I have this on a giant upland 23in frame ( cheap comoly ) with a weak rear flange. The frame and rim can't take all the weight with 35lbs of battery. I don't want.a moped rim. This is painful.
 
It's 4,000-5,000usd to get muxus to get started . I only want one.

How about my risunmotor question ?
Oh it's a leaf motor.

Ok reread the thread it's in the first sentence. Oh. I want one. What turn for my laguna beach hills 24s A123 20 ah, 12fet 40amp or do they have kit with laced 72v sinewave, C.A. compatible. Any links ?
 
Is the leaf motor the same diameter as the muxus. Same spoke length ?
Need a working back up motor. As I don't know if to wait for an aluminum stator will work ?
 
I don't know about any difference in diameter between the spoke flanges on those two motors. If they are different, it's not by much. Inside the motors, the Leafbike and MXUS are both 205mm diameter stator, because that is a common size of readily available lamination.
 
The XF40-35H and the popular XF40-45H appear to be assembled in the same outer shell. I don't think Mxus sells a motor with magnet back steel in 40mm width like the leaf 1500w. This might be why they were reluctant to sell a 35mm width stator. If this is the case you might as well just get the XF40-45H
 

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That's not sounding good, the benefit of the 35H over the 45H (other than lighter and cheaper) is that it allows 6/7 gears on the freewheel, while still having a standard bicycle drop-out axle shoulder width of 135mm...
 
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