Hyena
10 GW
LOL!
I hear it's a particular issue around Notre-dame
I hear it's a particular issue around Notre-dame
Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread
- Thread starter all74
- Start date
Architectonic
10 kW
Hyena said:
This is advisory only right? A knee-jerk reaction of one council member?
I wonder why they bother with something stupid like this, I mean wouldn't it be better to say: be courteous of other trail users, slow down before passing them? Rather than pretending that there is a 5 kmh speed limit (which is slower than walking)?
Hyena
10 GW
Yeah it's certainly one of those 'more of a guideline than a rule' type things, and even that's a stretch.
On that path you do tend to get alot of lycras buzzing through and they're typically the ones that are arses/unsafe around peds rather than the likes of myself. I'm exceedingly courteous around others because
A: it's the right/safe thing to do (especially with alot of kids around)
B: I dont want to draw negative attention to ebikes and
C: It's no hassle to come to a complete stop or slow to walking pace (which I often do) and quickly resume at any speed unlike the lycras.
They probably should erect this sign next:
On that path you do tend to get alot of lycras buzzing through and they're typically the ones that are arses/unsafe around peds rather than the likes of myself. I'm exceedingly courteous around others because
A: it's the right/safe thing to do (especially with alot of kids around)
B: I dont want to draw negative attention to ebikes and
C: It's no hassle to come to a complete stop or slow to walking pace (which I often do) and quickly resume at any speed unlike the lycras.
They probably should erect this sign next:
John Bozi
100 kW
Who cares about shoulders? My eyes are uneven. Kept this video unlisted for ages for incriminating reasons, but thought on the topic of signs we got lots of these around the firetrails which have 4wd drives and horses ride.
I wonder whether my bike does big horse shits of weeds from other areas around the place or is heavier than a 4wd....
Sorry the video recorder was a bit slurry.
[youtube]JqOJH6ttGpI[/youtube]
I wonder whether my bike does big horse shits of weeds from other areas around the place or is heavier than a 4wd....
Sorry the video recorder was a bit slurry.
[youtube]JqOJH6ttGpI[/youtube]
twain
1 mW
Talking about signs...
How about this one:
How about this one:
Sigmacom
10 W
John Bozi said:
Man we need some bike friendly gates with that step through in NSW parks! Much easier than lifting the 58kg bomber over!
TheBeastie
1 MW
I been thinking about it for a little while now but haven't bothered to say anything and its this...
We have a unique opportunity to get things ebike motor related that we would like see happen put into law.
Senator Ricky Muir of the "Australian motoring enthusiast party" is the key senator who controls the senate to get bills passed through the house.
Ricky has far as I know lacks any demands so he lacks interest in passing bills in the senate.
Why can't we go to him and say we want 1000w ebikes legal for all roads and 10kwatt or less ebikes for bush trails where regular bikes are allowed and standard ice dirt bikes are prohibited... Or at least something a long those lines.
I am not really a very proactive type but I think this idea should at the very least be aired here because its hard to describe just how much power a man like Ricky has right now and the federal liberal party is desperate to get some bills passed. Where a lot like America really where Obama can't do anything cos he doesn't have the numbers but hes still president.
I don't know if anyone remembers the crazy laws that got passed because of that complete nut job Tasmanian independent Senator Brian Harradine controlled the balance of power in the Senate during the Howard years in the late 90s and in wasn't going to pass through any new bills until he got all porno banned from the internet.
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/03/04/1046540188131.html
The Government passed laws banning internet pornography in 1999 at the request of Tasmanian independent Senator Brian Harradine, an anti-porn activist whose vote was needed to secure the second-tranche Telstra sale.
His wish actually is in law and porno in Australia is suppose to be filtered its just that its not "enforced".
This is the example of power Ricky Muir has now. The liberals would find upping the legal limits of ebike power wattage a walk in the park "yes" compared to the nutty laws that Tasmanian independent Brian Harradine wanted on porno etc..
We have a unique opportunity to get things ebike motor related that we would like see happen put into law.
Senator Ricky Muir of the "Australian motoring enthusiast party" is the key senator who controls the senate to get bills passed through the house.
Ricky has far as I know lacks any demands so he lacks interest in passing bills in the senate.
Why can't we go to him and say we want 1000w ebikes legal for all roads and 10kwatt or less ebikes for bush trails where regular bikes are allowed and standard ice dirt bikes are prohibited... Or at least something a long those lines.
I am not really a very proactive type but I think this idea should at the very least be aired here because its hard to describe just how much power a man like Ricky has right now and the federal liberal party is desperate to get some bills passed. Where a lot like America really where Obama can't do anything cos he doesn't have the numbers but hes still president.
I don't know if anyone remembers the crazy laws that got passed because of that complete nut job Tasmanian independent Senator Brian Harradine controlled the balance of power in the Senate during the Howard years in the late 90s and in wasn't going to pass through any new bills until he got all porno banned from the internet.
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/03/04/1046540188131.html
The Government passed laws banning internet pornography in 1999 at the request of Tasmanian independent Senator Brian Harradine, an anti-porn activist whose vote was needed to secure the second-tranche Telstra sale.
His wish actually is in law and porno in Australia is suppose to be filtered its just that its not "enforced".
This is the example of power Ricky Muir has now. The liberals would find upping the legal limits of ebike power wattage a walk in the park "yes" compared to the nutty laws that Tasmanian independent Brian Harradine wanted on porno etc..
megacycle
100 kW
As long as he doesn't ban ebike porn :wink:
That's good I reckon as the Libs, who aren't liberals at all, they're actually ravin conservatives are into freedom of the individual to do what they want, but as long as they are the ruling class :?
Ricky's also up for environmental issues, even though he's a petrol head.
Have to get him on a stealth and in a powerful electric car, the EV grin might swing him over to getting legislation to include subsidies for electric vehicles, on the whole, as many of the rest of the 'sane' western government have done.
Clive Palmer, yes he's nuts, but loves his cars and was ravin on about electric cars being made here.
Anyway all up it might be best to try to sneak ebike legislation in with electric vehicle legislation, somehow, as environmental improvement, which is hot again now, to get something passed, the LNP and their bunch of incompetent nutters, might just overlook it anyway.
Live in hope.
That's good I reckon as the Libs, who aren't liberals at all, they're actually ravin conservatives are into freedom of the individual to do what they want, but as long as they are the ruling class :?
Ricky's also up for environmental issues, even though he's a petrol head.
Have to get him on a stealth and in a powerful electric car, the EV grin might swing him over to getting legislation to include subsidies for electric vehicles, on the whole, as many of the rest of the 'sane' western government have done.
Clive Palmer, yes he's nuts, but loves his cars and was ravin on about electric cars being made here.
Anyway all up it might be best to try to sneak ebike legislation in with electric vehicle legislation, somehow, as environmental improvement, which is hot again now, to get something passed, the LNP and their bunch of incompetent nutters, might just overlook it anyway.
Live in hope.
John Bozi
100 kW
Sorry to be a pessimist but I just don't ever think we are going to see a law that would hold where it is legal to ride stealth bombers on or off road.
Even if it passed it would soon get changed after a backlash of mountain bikers, horse riders, bush hikers etc kick up a stink.
There would be one incident of an accident and everything would get overturned.
Personally, keeping them out of the spot light is the best thing for us all.
Popularity would see prices drop but a whole heap of laws could get introduced and even put us on the coppers radars.
Even if it passed it would soon get changed after a backlash of mountain bikers, horse riders, bush hikers etc kick up a stink.
There would be one incident of an accident and everything would get overturned.
Personally, keeping them out of the spot light is the best thing for us all.
Popularity would see prices drop but a whole heap of laws could get introduced and even put us on the coppers radars.
Sunder
10 MW
John Bozi said:
The problem is, the Stealth Bomber is heavier, higher peak power, higher peak torque and faster than many low end motorcycles. Why shouldn't it be classed as a normal motorcycle? Just because it has pedals on it, which are effectively useless?
It would be easy for any politician or bureaucrat to argue that there are already laws to make the Stealth Bomber legal - As long the manufacturer does the compliance, and the owner registers it. Then it will be a fully legal road/trail motorcycle, and you can ride it anywhere you can take a road bike/dirt bike.
John Bozi
100 kW
there is one guy here who has made stealth bomber legal in Germany. But what I'm trying to say: the more of them that do get registered the harder it will be on us unregistered riders who fall into similar power categories.
People will all know even more clearly the power levels of the bombers for example because they will become everywhere and then when you see a similar one a bicycle path...
to be honest I like being a rare case, I look like I have a motor but you usually only know I'm around for a second or two. It would be different when you keep seeing more and more seconds of more people passing until something starts to piss people off.
The only difference is not pedals. It's the lack of sound and smell. My 35kg 5kw bike doesn't do any damage to the firetrails as much as a dirt bike, horse or rangers 4wd....
People will all know even more clearly the power levels of the bombers for example because they will become everywhere and then when you see a similar one a bicycle path...
to be honest I like being a rare case, I look like I have a motor but you usually only know I'm around for a second or two. It would be different when you keep seeing more and more seconds of more people passing until something starts to piss people off.
The only difference is not pedals. It's the lack of sound and smell. My 35kg 5kw bike doesn't do any damage to the firetrails as much as a dirt bike, horse or rangers 4wd....
Hyena
10 GW
I made inquires about getting my raptor road registered as a legal motorcycle.
No one was interested and the price to do it all properly if I insisted would have been around twice the price of the bike, and it aint a cheap bike.
What I did get out of the exercise it that it's much easier to convert/modify an existing registered/compliance plated bike than try to register something built from scratch. So that's what I'm going to do with my madass, and see how much modification I can get away with before it gets too expensive and/or they refuse. I suspect they'll draw the line at modifying the frame, but if not I'll be cheering if I can basically bolt the front end onto a new frame and kit it out with the necessary electrics.
I will document the whole process when I start but I suspect this is going to be the only viable way to get a road rego'd ebike. Find the lightest moto you can and swap out what you can.
No one was interested and the price to do it all properly if I insisted would have been around twice the price of the bike, and it aint a cheap bike.
What I did get out of the exercise it that it's much easier to convert/modify an existing registered/compliance plated bike than try to register something built from scratch. So that's what I'm going to do with my madass, and see how much modification I can get away with before it gets too expensive and/or they refuse. I suspect they'll draw the line at modifying the frame, but if not I'll be cheering if I can basically bolt the front end onto a new frame and kit it out with the necessary electrics.
I will document the whole process when I start but I suspect this is going to be the only viable way to get a road rego'd ebike. Find the lightest moto you can and swap out what you can.
John Bozi said:
I think we all fit into this category John
Being as Australia is typically Antiquated in their laws, especially technology (not sure who here has lived in other countries, but, Australia is NOT the lucky country in that regard!)
Everyone else will get to the party before us. Thankfully, every activity I've ever devoted a lot of time to has been frowned on. Kicked out of everywhere for skateboarding and considered a criminal because of how I dressed, hand cuffed and nearly arrested for building MTB trails.....Ebikes should be a walk in the park =)
I'm glad I don't live in a major metro centre....I reckon I could ride one side of Geelong to the other without any grief.
SO Hyena, what are the major hurdles in the ADR to overcome with registering a straight conversion? say on a light weight 250cc. I really only leaves the electrical system that the ADR can dictate?
cjh
100 W
Trying to get the States to agree to changes that would loosen the current regulations will be no easy task. Even if the Federal government establishes better regs, the States can still impose additional regs on top that tighten things back up.
Anyway, the whole thing about adopting European regs is a bit of a joke as even in Europe different countries have their own rules in place. Pedelecs, S-Pedelecs, ebikes, low powered mopeds, mopeds, 25kph, 45kph, 250W, 500W, 600W, 1000W, pedal assist, throttle only, helmets, no helmets, registraion, no registration, use bike paths, not allowed to use bike paths...
Not to say we shouldn't try, but it needs a logical, potentially acceptable option put forward and I don't think that includes anything over 1000W at the most. There has been a push in Europe from the bike retailers association for an increase to 500W for optimum safety and comfort to assist the elderly, the obese, the medically challenged, cargo bikes, etc. and to deal with hills better but even if that went through it would still both take work and time to get a similar outcome in place here.
Personally, I think it should be more about speed limits, not power and 'throttle only' use should be allowed at any speed. Restricting throttle only to under 6kph is ridiculous and I don't see why it can't be used up to the 25kph limit. If I am allowed to travel at that speed, what difference does it make if I am pedalling or just using the throttle? I can also see a case for a new separate ebike class that has pedals but also allows 'throttle only' up to max 50kph.
Beyond that you are really an electric motorbike and the rules are in place already. I do realise that getting one "Engineered" is an issue as I have been through it with a 4wd I built. The process is not cheap. Here is the Motorcycle ICV checklist. http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/pdf/NCOP10C_lO7_ICV_Motorcycle_Checklist_V2.0_01Jan2011.pdf
At the very least I would like to see 500W, 30kph and 'throttle only' use allowed. That way I can keep up with most bike riders on the flat, deal with hills better and still ride if my bad knee says no more. Not an unreasonable or unsafe outcome I don't think.
Anyway, the whole thing about adopting European regs is a bit of a joke as even in Europe different countries have their own rules in place. Pedelecs, S-Pedelecs, ebikes, low powered mopeds, mopeds, 25kph, 45kph, 250W, 500W, 600W, 1000W, pedal assist, throttle only, helmets, no helmets, registraion, no registration, use bike paths, not allowed to use bike paths...
Not to say we shouldn't try, but it needs a logical, potentially acceptable option put forward and I don't think that includes anything over 1000W at the most. There has been a push in Europe from the bike retailers association for an increase to 500W for optimum safety and comfort to assist the elderly, the obese, the medically challenged, cargo bikes, etc. and to deal with hills better but even if that went through it would still both take work and time to get a similar outcome in place here.
Personally, I think it should be more about speed limits, not power and 'throttle only' use should be allowed at any speed. Restricting throttle only to under 6kph is ridiculous and I don't see why it can't be used up to the 25kph limit. If I am allowed to travel at that speed, what difference does it make if I am pedalling or just using the throttle? I can also see a case for a new separate ebike class that has pedals but also allows 'throttle only' up to max 50kph.
Beyond that you are really an electric motorbike and the rules are in place already. I do realise that getting one "Engineered" is an issue as I have been through it with a 4wd I built. The process is not cheap. Here is the Motorcycle ICV checklist. http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/pdf/NCOP10C_lO7_ICV_Motorcycle_Checklist_V2.0_01Jan2011.pdf
At the very least I would like to see 500W, 30kph and 'throttle only' use allowed. That way I can keep up with most bike riders on the flat, deal with hills better and still ride if my bad knee says no more. Not an unreasonable or unsafe outcome I don't think.
John Bozi
100 kW
more than anything we'll probably get banned importing anything that might be used for higher than 200w...
police want motorised bikes banned already.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-09/police-call-for-ban-sale-motorised-bike-kits-inquest-hears/5954482
police want motorised bikes banned already.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-09/police-call-for-ban-sale-motorised-bike-kits-inquest-hears/5954482
Sunder
10 MW
John Bozi said:
Petrol motorised bikes are already banned in NSW.
They used to be simply practically illegal - That is, they were legal if they fit under the same 200W law as all other assisted bikes. However, a study showed that the only way you could do that was with a poorly tuned 11cc RC motor. Even an intake and exhaust restricted, detuned 50cc motor couldn't be kept under 200w.
Since the total ban, I have seen a hell of a lot more electric bike. It used to be weeks, if not months between seeing an electric rider. These days, I see at least 2 a day, and it's rarely the same guy I see.
I've also got a lot more comments about my bike. I'm spending some time this Christmas to make it more stealth.
cjh
100 W
The "environmental/sustainability" issue works in our favour which can get others behind us. Not using petroleum resources and low to no noise levels along with getting people out of cars reducing thus reducing future infrastructure costs and into the outdoors doing some activity helping to reduce healthcare costs are things governments can get behind as long as the public safety or perceived safety isn't put at risk.
Modbikemax
1 kW
More ebikes means they will be noticed more and probably for the wrong reasons.
Stealth is probably the way to go to avoid unwanted attention and at sub 40kph speeds.
It is only a matter of time before the cops start confiscating bikes cutting through traffic at 60 kph.
Stealth is probably the way to go to avoid unwanted attention and at sub 40kph speeds.
It is only a matter of time before the cops start confiscating bikes cutting through traffic at 60 kph.
Sunder
10 MW
cjh said:
You obviously don't ride in Sydney. Hatred of Cyclists > Any non-existent care for the environment. In my experience, many people menace riders to try to get us off the road so we don't slow down traffic. Yelling abuse, trying to slap the rider as they go past, etc. They don't realise or care that every rider is one less driver and one more parking spot.
Sydney was nominated by an international cyclist as the worst place to ride.
I've been thinking of making bumper stickers that say "This car wouldn't be slowing you down if we had better cycling infrastructure", and "This parking spot could have been yours if we had better bike infrastructure" and leaving piles of them for free at bike shops. What do people think? Would you put one on your car?
rhinejuice
10 W
I'm probably a bit liberal when it comes to stuff I like but I would like to see no power restrictions and a governed speed limit. I can see no problem with doing 50kph assisted or not, its possible. We need people that understand what they are doing regards to legislating this not a bunch of fat, rich no ideas!
Modbikemax
1 kW
Sunder said:
Nobody likes cyclists not even me when I'm on my bike. They are a very inconsiderate bunch. Same as motorists and pedestrians. Everyone thinks their right of way is more important than anyone else's. It's the result of the "I" generation.
A few stickers isn't going to change that. It was tried for motorcyclist back in the 80s with the "look left look right look bike"
Campaign. It didn't do much, just let you know the bloke in the other car had a bike.
In Perth we have a few cycle paths which are separated from the pedestrian path in a few busy areas along the river. It's a much better idea even though pedestrians sometimes walk on it.
Vonkrumm
1 mW
What are peoples thoughts on shelling out $300-400 on a 500/1000w motor and riding it in Australia?
So far I haven't given it a second thought, given how limited enforcement is at the moment, and how much of a socio-economic benefit it will be.
Unfortunately the law is the law, though. :?
So far I haven't given it a second thought, given how limited enforcement is at the moment, and how much of a socio-economic benefit it will be.
Unfortunately the law is the law, though. :?
Modbikemax
1 kW
I suppose it's like loud exhaust pipes, fat tyres, lift kits, hot motors etc etc you have to get caught first.
If you are not being a dick head the cops have probably got better things to do than pull you over to check out your bike.
Hopefully go after the guy with the loud pipes. :lol:
If on the other hand you had an accident with a car or pedestrian they would be forced to investigate further and you could even face criminal charges. Unlicensed vehicle comes to mind, no insurance etc. It could make $500 seem like small change.
If you are not being a dick head the cops have probably got better things to do than pull you over to check out your bike.
Hopefully go after the guy with the loud pipes. :lol:
If on the other hand you had an accident with a car or pedestrian they would be forced to investigate further and you could even face criminal charges. Unlicensed vehicle comes to mind, no insurance etc. It could make $500 seem like small change.
Hyena
10 GW
TheBeastie
1 MW
About 1 month ago I had my bike locked up on Chapel St outside a coffee shop. While enjoying my coffee looking out the window I witnessed a police car park just up from my bike and two policemen come out walking up the pavement towards my bike, one slows down and strays to the side of the pavement and looks at my bike, he then very slowly does a full walking circle around my bike looking at it from every angle possible while the other cop just stands there.Modbikemax said:
They then just go on walking up the pavement on there merry way, I sat inside the coffee shop kind of feeling like a fly on the wall and in a little shock and surprise for such interest.
But it did ring alarm bells to me that they are taking notice of unusual looking bikes. This is when I decided to get rid of my EM3 frame bag and go for a more arguably looking discrete looking battery box, which I havent done yet.