Bafang Max Battery Swap

Ozzzz

100 W
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May 3, 2016
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183
My new bike has this mtr installed , it came with a 'Philon' side release battery 36V 11.4a/h. i'd like to swap it out for bigger capacity (/multiple batteries)

Iv'e built a couple of hub mtr bikes but i'm not familiar with, what appears to be, three 'communication' cables? iv'e got some good em3ev 17a/h shark batteries with +ve -ve but can I work around comms?

I haven't opened the motor, there's no free cable so i'd have to get inside, seemingly with a tool (GZ-MM G31-5025) any advice there appreciated very much also?:


Screen Shot 2019-05-13 at 1.14.55 pm.png

A-a = 'communication cables' battery- motor

Ta :)
 
Best guess is it requires the original battery to talk with or it won't operate. There's a number of OEM systems like that; basically the owners are out of luck in these situations, unless they buy more OEM supplied batteries.

Some of them you could parallel more cells with the originals, but some of them may detect the sudden change in capacity and lock out the battery thinking something has gone wrong.

Some OEM batteires have been known to brick themselves when any of the cell groups become disconnected from the BMS, so swapping the electronics over to a new larger pack isn't easy, even if it doens't detect a change in capacity and react to it. One would have to connect the new pack in parallel with the original first, at each balance connection and hte pack mains. If desired, the original cells could then be removed.

I don't know of any that actually lock up the bike itself if a non-OEM battery is used, but it's always possible for some OEM to do that at some point.

I don't have any details on any of these systems, as I haven't dealt with any of them, but there are a number of threads on ES about battery rebuilds for various OEM bikes. Dunno if there's one for the Max.


The actual comm buss is probably "CANBUS", seems to be growing popular. But that's just a physical interface, and doesn't constrain them to any specific data or command set, so if you don't already know how to talk on their bus, and what responses to make to inquiries from controller/etc., you dont' have any way to find out other than snooping the bus and canning the interchanges under various conditions, and then storing those in an MCU lookup table for use in your own BMS for a new pack.

It might not be all that complicated, and you might be able to just leave the comm buss dsconnected. But I doubt it will work without it.

If you're lucky, you can just parallel the new main pack with the OEM pack's main leads, and let the OEM pack take care of all the comm, and let the new pack just provide more capacity. Most likely, this will leave the capacity meter display on the Max still only showing the original capacity, if it's actually coutning the charge passing thru it's BMS, and it won't show anything from the paralleled pack.
 
hmmm, yeah, hey hi amberwolf, thanks! A level beyond me. I thought there was a lot of discussion about these but doesn't seem so. I'm not sure if the 'Ultra' is the same..I had thought, given the number of various bikes/ battery combo's coming out with this motor, the connection would be generic.

So far I have a feeling my new bike will last as long as it's battery. The manual (from Bafang) has this diagram, i'm a bit confused where the wiring specification comes in, iv'e seen bikes sold with this motor+ everyday silverfish or shark type batteries etc.

ps- it's actually 2 power wires + 4 comm wires g/r/b/y
 
So I bought a serial cable to get in to the display/settings. If I'm getting the situation from amberwolf on these things, & understand correctly, there must be settings through the display unit that some OEM's are either choosing to use or can be configured.. I did see a seller using what looked to be a generic shark pack, maybe they weren't using the comms wires.. I don;t really want to parallel packs, just swap, either now or as soon as their cheap battery expires.

I guess it follows that the optional colour display swap out may have factory presets or maybe I can find more info on how/whether Bafang give instructions or codes etc. for OEM's battery applications.

(I'll add anything here i find but any further speculation or advice is welcome).
 
Well, the real easy way is to just test it, hooking up a non-OEM battery in place of the original, and see what happens. ;)
 
Ha, yeah.. and I probably will :)

There was a lot of extra wire length coiled inside the mount:

Bafang Max Batt.png

(Trying to avoid opening the motor or do much while it has warranty).

I suspect (as you mention) the battery wont work, unless Bafang leaves it optional. I expect this is the case also that more settings would then be involved in the software. Just absorbing info stage.

I wonder if the Ultra has the same battery wiring (lots of DIY Ultra builders but haven't found that mentioned (yet)).
 
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