Batteries for "dumb"

[slamblood]

Hi guys! New here and sorry if my theme will repeat someone else, its just huge amount of information here. I did a quick research, but no results for me. So...

I do not know much about the topic build batteries and controllers, looking for an easy solution that will try to describe:

I would like to see and use a controller to which I could add 1 - 5 pieces of batteries (battery cells assemblies),so it сould go on like two batteries more than one, three more than two, etc. (I mean cruising range). Such a desicion for electro trike.

This is convenient, since I do not need to buy a bunch of batteries immediately and will able to purchase them after or replace the part.

I read the forums, and surf the web and didn`t find this, but I hope that you will prompt me where to go ..))
I understand that I'm a bit lame, but still want to know just who else would like to have a solution, or what a substitute you use? Share your experience!

Sincerely,
Alex

 

[alexis57]

Hi,
You have to buy batteries...
If your motor is 48v, you have to buy at least 13 batteries Lipo or 15 LiFePo4. But even if you can find battery that can provide 10A, it's even not enough, then at least 2,3 or even 4 is the minimum for me in parallel. ( then 13*4=52 batteries minimum )
The controller doesnt care, if it's a 48V one, you can put as you want parallel packs of 48v.
Please, read the forum to understand.

 

[dogman dan]

Best approach for the inexperienced, is to just find a seller for a fully assembled, bms protected pack that is ready to ride. Pingbattery for lifepo4, EM3ev for NMC, to name two vendors in China you can definitely trust.

Once you get over that whack to your budget, save for additional batteries that are similar. Easy to run one, unplug, then run the other to extend your range on the longer rides.

Using this one one, then the other method, the two batteries need not be the same type, or even the same exact voltage.

 

[ASK1]

Hi,
You have to buy batteries...
If your motor is 48v, you have to buy at least 13 batteries Lipo or 15 LiFePo4. But even if you can find battery that can provide 10A, it's even not enough, then at least 2,3 or even 4 is the minimum for me in parallel. ( then 13*4=52 batteries minimum )
The controller doesnt care, if it's a 48V one, you can put as you want parallel packs of 48v.
Please, read the forum to understand.

"Read the forum" can answer all questions, but that's like saying "read the encyclopedia" (times ten).

 

[amberwolf]

I would like to see and use a controller to which I could add 1 - 5 pieces of batteries (battery cells assemblies),so it сould go on like two batteries more than one, three more than two, etc. (I mean cruising range). Such a desicion for electro trike.

I'm assuming you want to parallel more batteries to whatever you start out with, as you have more money/etc.

There are a lot of options, but if you're thinking that you want to bulid your own batteries, you're going to need to learn a lot of stuff about them before you want to embark on that sort of thing. The only good way to do that is to read the various battery-building threads and start learning about the various types and methods, and see which one looks like something you can understand and do, and then learn more about that until you're confident you can do it.

If you aren't totally sure you can build one, you probably shouldn't try it until you've learned enough to be sure, becuase a battery is the one thing that could cause you a lot of grief if it's done wrong. Some types can easily start a large fire, if wired up wrong or charged incorrectly, discharged too far and then recharged, etc., so you want to know exactly what you're doing before starting out building them.

This subforum, "battery technology", has a sticky thread at the top that indexes a number of good threads to start with, including a link to a thread with various fires that have occured, which try to give some info on how each might have started and why.


If you don't want to do all that reading and learning, building your own pack may not be your best choice.



Your simplest option is to buy complete battery packs, which you can still parallel for more range as you buy more of them, from places like EM3EV, Grin Tech (ebikes.ca), etc. There are lots of cheap vendors, too, but it can be harder to get support or repairs from them vs places like those, which do cost more (but these more costly batteries are usually better, too).

 

[slamblood]

Hi,
You have to buy batteries...
If your motor is 48v, you have to buy at least 13 batteries Lipo or 15 LiFePo4. But even if you can find battery that can provide 10A, it's even not enough, then at least 2,3 or even 4 is the minimum for me in parallel. ( then 13*4=52 batteries minimum )
The controller doesnt care, if it's a 48V one, you can put as you want parallel packs of 48v.
Please, read the forum to understand.

That`s what I`m talking about, so its going like 52 cells with parallel connection in battery box (or case). But question about its safety. I was consulting with few guys and they told me about technology when 1 cell "died" it wont affect on whole chain you know? Probably that is some complex solution...

Best approach for the inexperienced, is to just find a seller for a fully assembled, bms protected pack that is ready to ride. Pingbattery for lifepo4, EM3ev for NMC, to name two vendors in China you can definitely trust.

Once you get over that whack to your budget, save for additional batteries that are similar. Easy to run one, unplug, then run the other to extend your range on the longer rides.

Using this one one, then the other method, the two batteries need not be the same type, or even the same exact voltage.

Appreciated for examples, will definitely look for `em.

ASK1, thanks man! But alexis57 helps answering on my question, so no disrespecting on my view

I'm assuming you want to parallel more batteries to whatever you start out with, as you have more money/etc....

Thank you for answer! And no, I`m not going to build any batteries, I`m looking for ready-made solution (as you told complete battery packs). As I told alexis57 before, Its a question about safety also. It can explode or affect on whole chain and that I didn`t want to happen. That`s why I`m asking for help here

Eventually, there is solution with complete battery packs on: Pingbattery for lifepo4, EM3ev for NMC, Grin Tech (ebikes.ca). But still there are some questions on safety technology and probably in other areas I have not yet reached.

 

[dogman dan]

Well, safety,,, I once had a truck burn because of a short circuit on a common 12v car battery. So like a can of gas, safe is a relative thing. Follow basic precautions, a can of gas is safe. Don't follow, you get disaster. Yet relatively few disasters happen with car batteries or gas, because the basic safety rules are generally followed easily. Don't smoke while pouring the gas, you know.

The battery type, and the vendors suggested so far, are "safe". You won't get a poorly constructed, bound to develop a short pack from those we just listed. Then, it's up to you to keep it safe. Basic precautions to prevent that short from happening include the bms that is in such batteries. It acts like a fuse if you have a cut wire. But also, you will want to try to carry it in a protected place, so a simple tip over of your bike does not damage cells and result in a short before the bms. Many of us put additional protection around packs that are merely shrink wrapped. Then carry it with common sense, secure it. No bungees or tape.

The more dangerous type of battery is the RC packs used for helicopters or drones. They are much more volatile, and I never recommend them for the inexperienced. I don't think you are dumb. Just new, or as we call it, a noob.

As for one cell taking the rest of the parallel string with it,, that happens. The best way to avoid that, is to pay the extra price for a quality vendors battery. It can happen even to the best battery manufacturer, but it's a lot less likely when they start with good cells, and actually test such cells before assembly. This is where vendors like Ping, and EM3ev go the extra mile. Other bargain battery assemblers rely on the battery factory to do the testing, but the fact is, a small percentage of cells will pass the test the first day, then fail in coming weeks. So those that do a re test just before assembly can have a better chance of weeding out weak cells.

Another thing that helps with weaker cells, is the size of your pack. I've been recommending for years that bikes should have a 15 ah pack at the minimum. This is because a slightly larger size pulls less hard on each cell. So a slightly larger pack may allow a slightly weaker cell to last longer. 10 ah can be enough though, depending on the type of cell you choose. 15 ah for much the lifepo4 stuff still applies, but the best cells used by Em3ev can handle it with 10 ah nowadays. Even with them, it's still nice to have 15 ah of range in any case.

 

[slamblood]

Thank you @dogman_dan. Sorry for quite late reply, quite busy nowadays.
You`re right about the size, this is what I have now approached. So, there is a trike with 60 kg weight. And its load about 200 kg (luggage+average human weight). And I need 2 motor hub with 500W each and controller for them. And there is a question about: size of battery pack, size of motor hub and size of controller. To enable to power such weight (260 kg overall) probably I`ll need 2 or 3 controller. And the quality of the winding in motor hub also important.
I`ve contacted with few china manufacturers and they send me battery pic (see attach) and table with list of components. I forwarded them a question about its size and consisting elements, waiting for answer.

I`ve checked EM3ev and Pingbattery as you suggested.
EM3ev have quite nice prices comparing to some other I had time to look, hub motor (see attach) there about 250$ with option for upgrades, but I need to figure out about its size and rpm load that will power needed weight. They also writing about motor winding, but nothing exactly (I think need to specify). Controller for about 60-80$.
Pingbattery suggests 48V 20Ah V5 LiFePO4 for 658$, dimensions: 180*210*155mm. That seems quite fine price. But not sure if such battery will enable to power weight (260kg), so maybe I need 2 or 3 batteries.
Maybe kit less expensive? I think I can compare that only after assembly whole components.

Maybe you guys can suggest some optimal motor hub and controller that can fit to power such weight? Or ask me some right questions that I could forward to manufacturer? That would help much!