Bearing Failure on Crystalyte after 1K miles???

[edventure]

I just hit the 1000 mile mark today on my E-bike, but noticed that I have a fairly severe clunk happening as the rear wheel rotates. I lifted the rear wheel up at work today an spun it by hand and it seems like a bad rear bearing causing it. IF I grab the wheel from at the circumference from opposite sides and push on one side while pulling on the opposite there is definite movement. I feel 1000 miles seems early for bearing failure, but maybe someone has seen this before. Does anyone have a recommended procedure for removing and replacing the bearings? Is 1000 miles all I should expect? I attached two movies, one where I am pushing on the rear wheel and the other where I am spinning it and you can hear the noise. It seemed to happen fairly suddenly considering I rode it home yesterday and everything seemed to work great. I had a 20 mile ride back to work this morning and during this ride is when I noticed a strange feeling throughout the frame. If I have to replace bearings every 1k miles it is not going to be my commuter for long. Has anyone replaced bearings in a Crystalyte HS3540 type motor themselves? If so what procedure or tools have you used with good results? I did a search, but have not found a whole lot on this topic or I am not typing the right words into the search topic dialogue. The motor I have is a Crystalyte 5303 V2 from Lyen, which I think is very similar to a HS3540 0r 48, could never get a straight answer from Lyen.

As always any help is greatly appreciated.

I wanted to update what I had determined recently that causes the wheel to clunk like this. After a little more than 1800 miles the motor windings recently fried and shorted. SO again, I had to disassemble the motor, but before doing so I placed it in a bench vise. When grabbing the wheel in certain positions and pushing perpendicular to the way it spins I imeaditely noticed the side covers moving. The flat top phillips screws had come loose in a few positions causing this clunking sound. I think allen head screws may be a better bet for this setup with Loctite to keep them from backing out.

[youtube]eFOaWEbzCEc[/youtube]
[youtube]_ZY_XkFNkmE[/youtube]

 

[dogman dan]

Chinese bearings. Some go 10,000 miles, some don't. Not just a crystalyte thing, it can happen with any brand.

Lucky you.

 

[mattrb]

Hello, a quick google query found your answer. The bearing is really easy to get. Just rent the biggest 3 arm gear puller from autozone.

[youtube]7y87_3CQKhw[/youtube]

 

[edventure]

Chinese bearings. Some go 10,000 miles, some don't. Not just a crystalyte thing, it can happen with any brand.

Lucky you.

Well, I disassembled the motor yesterday evening and both bearings seemed in good condition. The other surprise is there are NSK bearings from Japan. I attached a photo here. I still ordered some replacement bearings from Mcmaster-Carr today that I am hoping will be here by tomorrow, "free overnight through company affiliation". I also contacted a company, "on E-Bay" regarding a higher grade ABEC-5 rated bearing made with Silicon Nitride Balls, but not sure if it is worth even trying these, especially since they are $58/ea. Here is the link to that. http://www.ebay.com/itm/6203ZZ-Hybr...=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item1e6c8bd833

So what I found after I started disassembling the motor was, one of my spokes were snapped almost right where it goes through the motor. I am thinking this is probably what was causing the clunking sound, but I already decided to replace the bearings since I already had it apart.

Additionally, my motor seems like it has overheated, based on the coloring of the windings, the odor coming from the housing after I opened it and the burnt looking fiberglass insulation on the phase wires. I hope I am not going to need to replace the entire motor next. I am running it an average of 1500W for a little under an hour twice a day, 20 miles to work and 20 miles back. Thought the motor could handle this, but now I am starting to wonder. My battery is a 16S2p setup using headways so 48V 30Ah which and seems to work great, but the motor now has me thinking??? :?

I attached some photos of the motor below along with the broken spoke. You can also see the bearings and how they are coated with what looks like an insulating varnish. Can't attach the smell, but trust me it does not smell right.

Best,

Ed

 

[edventure]

Hello, a quick google query found your answer. The bearing is really easy to get. Just rent the biggest 3 arm gear puller from autozone.

[youtube]7y87_3CQKhw[/youtube]

I actually saw this video earlier today, although I don't have a hydraulic press, but I was just able to use a bearing type puller that I rented from AutoZone, "photo below". I had to put $168 on my credit card but they said once I return it I will get the full amount back, plus I can keep it for up to 90 days . Thats a pretty good deal. I will keep AutoZone in mind for future tool needs. I asked if they had a hydraulic press, but they did not . Hopefully I can find a way to get the new ones in, like using a vice that doesn't involve banging on them. Any ideas on that would be appreciated.

Thanks for the reply and video link.

Ed

 

[dogman dan]

That motor has gotten warm for sure, but it's far from as discolored as a burnt motor gets.

I find it hard to believe that 5% grades did that, but 1500w might be enough to lightly toast the windings, as you have. Trail rides would roast a motor easy, in just one ride. Much steeper.

 

[MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER]

You don't need any special tools at all.
I have use sockets to remove and install bearings.

 

[itchynackers]

ya, I removed mine with just a hammer/screwdriver. Just use a cheap drill press to press the new ones in. I used a wooden block as a "cushion". Easy.

 

[dnmun]

yes, it is cheaper to just buy a large gear puller from harbor freight to remove the cover and push out the old bearing too, and then use a bolt through the cover plate with a socket on each side to press the new bearing back in.

 

[999zip999]

When installing the bearing find a socket that fits the other race of the bearing and drive the outer race level into the cover. On flat level table. You can freeze the bearing also.

 

[edventure]

Well I am pissed off now. Exactly what I worried about has happened and now I need to wait to get another bearing!!!!!!! I tried using my limited tools at my house and had found a 1 1/8" socket that I tested on one of the old bearings. I don't have a vice so I could not press it in that way so i thought I could use a large C-Clamp I have to press it in and come to find out my C-Clamp was too small. I then stupidly "in my hurry" decide to bang on the socket with a rubber mallet and as you can see in the photo this is what happened. So now it looks like I won't be riding till at least the end of this week if not longer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Additionally I just wasted $10 on the bearing plus the $5 shipping they charged me and I still don't have a method here at my house that will work well. Not even sure if the vice I have at work is large enough to fit the side cover in. I can not believe no one has troubles installing these bearings. The guy in the video makes it look easy, but he has every tool you could possibly need in the shop he is working in. I could do the same with those tools. I have a decent shop, at work which I should have used, but I would need to bring the wheel assembly there and work on it after hours which is not always possible and without a good method for pressing them in I am going to have the same problem anyhow. Has any one used a bolt, nut and washers to pull the bearing in?

Multiple people say they use sockets, that is great, but are you using a hammer to bang them in? Almost everything I have ever read says you should not bang the bearings in. I am still extremely maddened I need to work on the bike after only 1000 miles. Everything I read regarding the Crystalytes was they go for 10k+ miles, of course I get the one that fails in a month and a half, plus already has a stator that looks and smells like hell!!

I need to cool off and not think about this for a little while and order another bearing, maybe two or three. I am just happy I did not do this with one of the really expensive bearings.

Well another few days of driving my crappy car sitting in traffic! :x :x :x :x

 

[edventure]

ya, I removed mine with just a hammer/screwdriver. Just use a cheap drill press to press the new ones in. I used a wooden block as a "cushion". Easy.

Hey Itchynackers,

Well I tried the Bolt thru the bearing idea and tried to pull the bearing in that way, but that did not work and ended up causing the bearing to go in crooked again. I then used a tool I had made a couple years ago, "since I did not have a large enough socket" and used a drill press and it worked great. I questioned your idea, but it actually worked the best with the tools I had at my disposal. I am now waiting for the replacement bearing to arrive so I can replace the bearing on the opposite side, but I will probably do it the same way. Placed a photo of the bolt method that Dnmun recommended and of the drill press method. I'm sure if someone could just go purchase a socket that would fit the outside ring of the bearing and do the same thing, but you would need access to a drill press.

Thanks for the recommendation. Hopefully the other one will install as easily. I am hoping replacing these and the spoke will correct the knocking problem.

Ed

 

[spinningmagnets]

The side plate is aluminum, if you heat it up enough that you must hold it with leather gloves, it will expand ever so slightly, making the process of pressing-in the new bearing a tiny bit easier. Warming the sideplate may only expand the hole one or two thousandths, but sometimes that's all it takes.

Here are pics of me removing the old bearing on a MAC:

 

[MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER]

Why don't you use the old bearing outer ring and use your nice drill press again?

 

[100volts+]

subscribed

 

[edventure]

So I installed a new bearing on the freewheel side and then mounted the freewheel side cover back on the stator. I feel the play is fairly excessive for a new bearing, but I don't have a good feel for what it should be. The bearing is secure in the cover mount. The movement you can see in the video is play between the inner and outer rings of the bearings? Does anyone have any feel for if this is normal or not? I feel like I am going to put this back together and I am going to have the same clunking sound. I was hoping for better results with the new bearing, but maybe my expectations are too great.

Again thanks for everyones feedback,

Ed

[youtube]MiUEnFRDmwg[/youtube]

 

[Gregor]

Maybe now would be the time to consider some cooling holes in your side covers? If the windings get a little too hot again you could smell it without taking your wheel apart again. From the picture of your bike, i would estimate that you have about 75% of the total wt on the rear axle--lots of wt and some heat thrown in may have tipped the scales against you or maybe it was just bad luck! A temp sensor connected to the axle or even internally?

 

[sacko]

In future, seal the bearing up and put it in the freezer for a couple of hours.

In the last 20 mins, put the side cover in the oven @ 80-90c.

Where the steel has contracted, and the aluminium has expanded, the bearing will tap in easily.

 

[alsmith]

I changed the original bearings on my 5300 quickly too- excessive play. Changing the bearings was too easy- no interference fit on one side cover, and none on the shaft at the other side. Crap machining/ bad QC.

 

[edventure]

Was able to get motor reassembled and installed on the bike again. It is not making the clunking sound anymore, but I am not 100% sure what fixed it. I think it may have been have just been a bad spoke, but since I had the motor open, decided I might as well replace the bearings since the cost is minimal. So it the clunking sound was one of three things or a combination of all. The three culprits are, Bearings, Bad Spoke or Loose Motor Side COver screws. I also installed studded winter tires and went on a 30 mile ride today to break them in, as recommended by the manufacturer "now Suomi Originally Nokian". I was hoping to ride it to work tomorrow, especially since they are calling for snow later tomorrow and all day Tuesday, but when I arrived home this evening I had noticed two things that I need to correct before any additional long rides.

1 I trued the wheel myself after installing the new spoke and changing the bearings, couldn't seem to find any LBS that wanted to do it and that seemed confident enough to do a good job. I posted a couple videos here of the rim trueness using a zip tie. [youtube]qILiXFISpxM[/youtube] [youtube]qLe71DRm75I[/youtube] It seemed pretty good, but I don't think I tightened the spokes enough because they were all loose when I arrived home. I am wondering how people here lace their rims and whether they use a spoke tension tool? I may go purchase one since I am afraid they will either loosen again or I may over tighten them and cause another spoke to break.

2 Secondly after my trip today I checked the screws that hold the motor side covers to the main body of the motor and almost all of them were loose. When I removed them to repair the motor, I noticed they had some type of epoxy or glue. So I am thinking I need to use Loctite on all of these screws, but I am going to try and get all new screws since the phillips heads on the ones that were on the motor all seem partially stripped. If someone could tell me if they use a certain grade of Loctite when they rebuild these motors that would be great. I will do a little searching around, but just figured I would ask here since it is already getting late.

If I can get the spokes to stay tight and true and keep the cover screws on the motor tight I should be back in business.

I attached a photo below of my bike with the new studded tires installed. This photo shows my build without the rear battery box installed. I think it looks cool like this, but typically I have a rear battery enclosure that holds another 48V 15Ah headway pack in addition to the same capacity that is in this front enclosure in the photo. I need this extra battery capacity due to my commute to work being 20 miles one way and I also use a heated jacket liner so I like having the extra capacity in case I need it.

Again thank you everyone who gave some advice, it was very helpful as always.

Ed

 

[alsmith]

I must admit I just use feel for spoke tension. I've heard of some people matching the sound when they are pinged- frequency will get higher the tighter the spoke is, but not tried myself.

 

[edventure]

Well after returning from a 30 mile trip on Sunday evening and finding all my rear spokes had come loose I decided to bring it to the LBS and have them do it. If I build any more bikes, I think I will break down and purchase the tools necessary to be able to do it correctly myself, but right now it is not in the budget. I think you should have a minimum of three tools to get good reproducible results, Truing Stand "like TS-2.2 from Park Tool", Dishing Tool and Spoke tension Meter. Hopefully be commuting to work again by Thursday

 

[bobzilla]

hello guys, I can tell you one thing that really helps the insertion of the bearing in the cover when there is little tolerance among them. Heat with heat gun the cover and at the same time put the bearing in the freezer for a few hours.
it works!

 

[MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER]

You don't need a spoke meter, just your skills

I have only a true stand and a spoke tool.
My wheel running time is now 7500 km (ride 70 km a day).
Spokes are still good.

In beginning I had no experience, but just try and error and you will learn how easy it's.

 

[alsmith]

Ok, timing! I've just got a broken spoke on the motor wheel!