Best 18650 battery for the buck? Best deals?

[msebold]

It appears the best (or one of the best) 18650 batteries to use in a Ebike battery pack is Panasonic's NCR18650GA (rated at about 3500mah and 10amp continuous output).

As many are aware these are very expensive. (BTW, any tips on the best bulk price for these?)

It might be more cost effective to use a good quality battery with a little less capacity. At a significantly lower price I might simply add an extra parallel row and achieve the same overall capacity.

Opinions on the best 18650 battery for the buck? Best deals?

 

[dogman dan]

Well, all I can say is the cheapest unknown seller on Alibaba is not the best bang for the buck. It's merely the cheapest.

It just depends on what you need,, I needed at least 10 ah more capacity for more range, and bought a cheap ass 20 ah. It dished out 18 ah new, and now more like 16 ah, a year later. And goes without saying, struggles with just a 20 ah controller. Sags good.

But,,, it was dirt cheap, and I got what I needed. I can run it fine on weak bikes, or in parallel with another battery on stronger bikes. My needs were very modest.

if you need a stand alone battery to run 20-30 amps,, you need some top quality cells, and likely at least 15 ah of it. EM3ev is one place to look. Luna Cycle another.

 

[wineboyrider]

What Dogman said. Are you building your own pack?

 

[spinningmagnets]

As far as cost-effectiveness, the PF cell seems to be doing well these days.

 

[msebold]

Thank you for your comments dogman dan, spinningmagnets, and wineboyrider.

Yes, I am attempting to build my own 18650 pack. I am merely looking for the best quality 18650 cells (individual batteries) for the cost.

I am a novice, but I am learning. I think that I am willing to do a trade off, in that I am willing to add an extra parallel row or two in order to get to desired amperage output and amp hours, if the cost is right. 18650GA cells are good (3500mah & 10A continuous) but expensive. I'll look into the PF cells. I'll check out LunaCycles and EM3ev. I notice that LunaCycles claims these PF cells are the best batteries for small EVs.

http://lunacycle.com/batteries/bare-cells/samsung-18650-inr-18650-25r-50-pack-wholesale/

Thanks again

Mike S.

 

[wesnewell]

My 10ah 24s pack (888wh) cost $180 and is rated for a 200A continuous and 300A burst output. Takes under 5 minutes to assemble. Does that tell you why I'd never use 18650 cells for an ebike battery pack.
BTW, i"m on my 5th year and over 15K miles on my current one. I think you'll be lucky to get half that with an 18650 pack that will cost 4 times as much. But buy into the hype. Dealers love it.

 

[Wheazel]

My 10ah 24s pack (888wh) cost $180 and is rated for a 200A continuous and 300A burst output. Takes under 5 minutes to assemble. Does that tell you why I'd never use 18650 cells for an ebike battery pack.
BTW, i"m on my 5th year and over 15K miles on my current one. I think you'll be lucky to get half that with an 18650 pack that will cost 4 times as much. But buy into the hype. Dealers love it.

And what buying advice would you give then?
My experiences with hobbyking lipo and 18650 is as follows.

Bought a total of 100-150cells from hk in various sizes and pack configurations. Some smaller for rc use, but mostly larger 6s packs for ebike use. (5Ah and 8Ah cells)
From these I have had at least two cells being dead on arrival, making their packs useless unless rebuilt, and a handful cells going bad after just a few cycles.
They have also lost capacity faster than the 18650s I have tried. So all in all shitty products.

Out of approx 1000 of the 18650s (3 different models), I have had zero duds so far.

There are good reasons to why 18650s are where they are, and where rc lipo is aswell.
Maybe you should give tesla a call and tell them about your revolutionary discoveries of price, power density, and reliability in rc lipos.

 

[Wheazel]

@msebold

I would advice you to go for a well known 18650 cell that is on the cheaper side.
The PF or 25r might be a great choice, depends on your power requirements.
A while back the 29E cells was a decent cheap choice (for alittle lower power needs)
You can find cycle tests and other relevant info regarding most of these cells.

I built my two largest ebike packs out of D1s (180cells and 468cells) which is a pretty bad cell when it comes to power density, but offers decent energy density, and ok cycle life under mild conditions.
Bought em cause they were cheap. They work great under the right circumstances (low discharge rates), but are outdated compared to whats available today.

 

[Kenny'sID]

My 10ah 24s pack (888wh) cost $180 and is rated for a 200A continuous and 300A burst output. Takes under 5 minutes to assemble. Does that tell you why I'd never use 18650 cells for an ebike battery pack.
BTW, i"m on my 5th year and over 15K miles on my current one. I think you'll be lucky to get half that with an 18650 pack that will cost 4 times as much. But buy into the hype. Dealers love it.

What exactly was it you put together in 5 minutes? Was it a kit? and if so where can I get a look at it? or who sells it?

Clearly I know nothing but sure need to get into something other than the SLA's that I plan on toting around in a trailer. That's OK for the trike but for the bike without trailer, that extra 50lbs for the 22ah SLA's? not so much.

 

[tomjasz]

As far as cost-effectiveness, the PF cell seems to be doing well these days.

After the 29e and the success with it I've gone PF and am pleased as hell with a 30a controller and 20Ah pack. Although the inexpensive 26f is also probing to be a Decent pack. Every build doesn't need a GA.

 

[tomjasz]

Out of approx 1000 of the 18650s (3 different models), I have had zero duds so far.

There are good reasons to why 18650s are where they are, and where rc lipo is aswell.
Maybe you should give tesla a call and tell them about your revolutionary discoveries of price, power density, and reliability in rc lipos.

8 18650 batteries no dudes. Thanks for the breath of fresh air. I have all the Lipo gear as well. I'd sooner enjoy the hype. I like using my grill for cooking rather than charge protection. If I get poor I know I can get by but like a majority of riders have no need for 24s.

 

[tomjasz]

For frame mount cased packs the Dolphin, Reention brand, cases are the most durable. Period. For the BBS series I'll take a PF pack.

 

[wesnewell]

What exactly was it you put together in 5 minutes? Was it a kit? and if so where can I get a look at it? or who sells it?

Clearly I know nothing but sure need to get into something other than the SLA's that I plan on toting around in a trailer. That's OK for the trike but for the bike without trailer, that extra 50lbs for the 22ah SLA's? not so much.

I put 12 of these together for a 24s2p pack. I got then on sale for $15 each. You can do the same with any size pack with 4mm bullet connectors that snap apart. Just plu pos. to neg until you reach the cell count you want.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18631__Turnigy_5000mAh_4S1P_14_8v_20C_hardcase_pack_USA_Warehouse_.html

My experiences are a lot better. I've never received a deal cell in about 40 packs I've bought.

 

[Lurkin]

The reality is, there is no 'best cell' or 'best cell for the buck' until you qualify what it is you are using it for.

Parameters include cost, safety, knowledge, user friendliness, personal preference, size/shape, quality, DIY/vendor assembled, required discharge rate, capacity, compatibility, longevity expectations to name a few...

 

[jonescg]

18650s have great energy density, but power and complexity of assembly is a drawback.

LiPo cells have good energy density, and great power, but they have their own assembly issues.

In some applications, a pouch cell offers the best solution because the space to be filled is regular and rectangular.

And from what I'm reading, many (not all) 18650s are a bit deficient in the cycle life department, with >500 cycles to 80% capacity being a rare occurrence - I think the Samsung 25R is in this camp.

Horses for courses. I'm a big fan of single cell LiPo (not 6s packs from HK, but individual cells I can screen before assembly) but then again I've been working on these cells for a few years now and have never had an incident that I didn't intentionally create.

 

[redilast]

Panasonic NCR18650BE is the best value in my opinion. Great price per watt hour, good balance between high drain and high capacity (10A max current).

 

[Overclocker]

SANYO UR18650W2(15A)1500mah 2.35USD
UR18650AY 2200mah 1.88USD
UR18650FM 2600mah 2.57USD
UR18650ZY 2600MAH 1.80USD
UR18650ZT 2800MAH 2.30USD
UR18650ZTA 3000MAH 2.40USD
NCR18650BM 3200mah 2.12USD
NCR18650BF 3400MAH 2.40USD
NCR18650GA(10A) 3500MAH 3.10USD
UR18650RX 2000mah(20A) 2.60USD
UR18650NSX 2600mah(20A) 2.75USD
SANYO UR18500FK 1700mah 3.60USD
UR14500P 800mah 3.20USD
UR16650ZTA 2500mah 3.20USD

SONY US18650V3(10A) 2250mah 2.35USD
US18650VTC3(30A) 1600mah 2.50USD
US18650VTC4(30A) 2100mah 2.60USD
US18650VTC5(30A) 2600mah 3.45USD
US18650NC1(10A) 2900mah 3.60USD
PANASONIC
NCR18650PF 2900MAH(10A) 2.35USD
NCR18650A 3100mah 2.99USD
NCR18650BE 3200mah 2.40USD
NCR18650BD 3200mah(10A) 4.30USD
NCR18650B 3400mah 2.35USD
NCR18500 2000mah(3.8A) 4.00USD
CR123A 17345 1400mah(3V) 1.20USD
SAMSUNG INR18650-20R 2000mah(22A) 2.27USD
INR18650-15M 1500mah(25A) 1.70USD
ICR18650-22FM 2200mah 1.67USD
ICR18650-22P 2200mah (10A) 1.70USD
ICR18650-26JM 2600mah 1.77USD
ICR18650-26HM 2600mah 1.85USD
ICR18650-26FM 2600mah 1.85USD
ICR18650-28A 2800mah 2.20USD
INR18650-25R 2500mah(20A) 2.40USD
INR18650-29E 2900mah(10A) 2.45USD
ICR18650-30B 3000mah 2.28USD
INR18650-30Q 3000mah(15A) 3.10USD
ICR18650-32A 3200mah 0.00USD
INR18650-32E 3200mah(10A) 3.05USD
INR18650-35E 3500mah 10A 0.00USD
LG ICR18650S3 2200mah 1.60$
ICR18650B4 2600mah 1.67$
INR18650M 2600mah 10A 1.85$
ICR18650C4 2800mah 1.88$
ICR18650D1 3000mah 2.40$
ICR18650F1L 3400mah 2.30$
ICR18650MF2 2200mah(10A) 1.57$
INR18650MG1 2900mah(10A)2.27$
ICR18650HD2C 2100mah(25A) 2.20$
ICR18650HE2 2500mah(30A) 2.50$
ICR18650HE4 2500mah(30A) 2.58$
INR18650HG2 3000mah(20A) 3.70$
INR18650MH1 3200mah(10A)2.75$
ICR18650F1L 3400mah 2.27$
INR8650MJ1 3500mah(10A) 0.00$

pricelist/spam i get from my not so favorite cell supplier

agree the NCR-BE is best value. just very slightly lower capacity than GA (about ~120mah less at 6.0A). seems to have slightly better internal resistance than GA

for 1C applications the samsung 2600mah are pretty cheap. but shipping li-ion is rather expensive these days so you might as well ship a better cell

 

[Hwy89]

Overclocker, I've been shopping around for a while and those prices look too good to be true. Would you mind disclosing who your " not so favorite cell provider" is and the reason that they are not your favorite? If you prefer not to put it out in the open forum send me a pm.

 

[Kenny'sID]

What exactly was it you put together in 5 minutes? Was it a kit? and if so where can I get a look at it? or who sells it?

Clearly I know nothing but sure need to get into something other than the SLA's that I plan on toting around in a trailer. That's OK for the trike but for the bike without trailer, that extra 50lbs for the 22ah SLA's? not so much.

I put 12 of these together for a 24s2p pack. I got then on sale for $15 each. You can do the same with any size pack with 4mm bullet connectors that snap apart. Just plu pos. to neg until you reach the cell count you want.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18631__Turnigy_5000mAh_4S1P_14_8v_20C_hardcase_pack_USA_Warehouse_.html

My experiences are a lot better. I've never received a deal cell in about 40 packs I've bought.

Thanks, Wes, that's interesting. You got them on sale at the site you linked to? And how bout balancing? Do you charge them separately?

 

[okashira]

Model S cells. :_)

 

[wesnewell]

Thanks, Wes, that's interesting. You got them on sale at the site you linked to? And how bout balancing? Do you charge them separately?

Yes, I got them from HK I bulk charge them to 100.8V with a 600W charger.Every now and then I check them with battery medics. if I really want them in good balance, I can parallel all 12 and then use an rc charger to balance them all to ~.004V. I did that once and haven't done it again in a few months.

 

[Overclocker]

Overclocker, I've been shopping around for a while and those prices look too good to be true. Would you mind disclosing who your " not so favorite cell provider" is and the reason that they are not your favorite? If you prefer not to put it out in the open forum send me a pm.

powertrading / "wang xin". i ordered about a hundred samsungs from them about 2yrs ago. they arrived rewrapped in blue PVC w/ "NiMH 1.2v" printed on them

but the prices are great and the cells are legit

the packaging was very minimal. i'm lucky they didn't get damaged. will never buy from them again. no way i'm endangering a plane just to get a cheap li-ion fix.

my favorite supplier is KeepPower. the shipping costs quite a bit but they arrive w/ each pair in a plastic clamshell case surrounded by foam in a little cardboard box. compliant w/ the latest li-ion shipping regulations e.g. state-of-charge was about 40% when i received my last batch

 

[Dauntless]

I can only say so far so good, but I haven't had them long. The price has gone up since I got mine for 4x $7.99, it's $9.75 for the set now. 15 ratings on Amazon, 10 at 5, 4 at 4 and a 3. The down votes are just about their device problems, actually.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CNV27K4/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[wesnewell]

Run a capacity test on one of them. I think you'll find it's no where near 5800mah. Probably less the 3000mah. Hit it with a 1C discharge rate (5.8A) and see what happens.

 

[Dauntless]

I don't expect it to be the 5.8. I don't really have a way to run a capacity test. Lasts for hours in the flashlights, they might be 5-7w.