Better Ways to Control E-Bike Speed than just a Throttle

denito

1 mW
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
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16
Since I'm building my own motor controller, I'm thinking of using something other than just a "throttle" to control its speed. This is based on my experiences with riding a (fairly weak) Wilderness Energy 24V brushed motor: there were actually only a few "use cases" for what I wanted to do, that didn't necessarily map as well to a throttle control as they might to some other way of controlling the bike:

- I'm going slow, I want to go faster, so I push the throttle all the way.
- I'm going fast, and I want to keep going at top speed, so I have to ride a mile holding the throttle down during the whole trip (makes your thumb get tired).
- I'm going a little faster than I want to be going, so I have to feather the throttle to reduce speed gradually.
- I want to pedal, but I want the motor to make it easier. When you're accelerating, with the low power 24V WE motor, that's easy, you just push the throttle all the way in while you pedal. But if you are already going at speed and just want a certain level of assist, it is trickier to get the right amount of assist.

Now, the current bicycle I'm building will instead have two 36V 500 Watt BLDC e-bikekit motors and a 48V battery, but some of these will apply even more: I expect it will be even trickier to maintain just a certain amount of assist when I have that much power at my disposal, and the bicycle will be capable of going faster than I want to run all the time, so holding the throttle in all the time will not work, even if it did not make my hand tired which is the biggest problem I have had.

So, I'm thinking of something that would work more like cruise control on a car, with some added ability to switch to generating a fixed amount of torque instead of fixed speed, and also the ability to use the motors for braking. I have drop bars (the ram's horn shaped things) so it has been tricky to figure out where to place a throttle. I do have a pair of extra gear shift levels attached to the vertical stem below the handlebars; they aren't connected to anything - I put them there to use to control a motor. I'm thinking I could do something like use the lever on the left to set a speed, and the lever on the right to set torque. So for example, if I wanted to accelerate gradually to a high speed, I could set the torque lever low and the speed lever high. Or if I wanted to maintain a medium speed but have the bike work hard to keep that speed even on hills, I could set the speed lever in the middle and the torque lever all the way up. There could be a toggle switch that if I set it one way, the bicycle tries to maintain a fixed speed based on the setting of the speed lever but limited by the torque lever, and in the other position the bicycle gives a fixed amount of pedal assist according to the setting of the torque lever but limited to the speed lever.

I would also have switches on each brake lever to control electric braking. It would work something like this: if I click the rear brake lever, that simply turns off the motors (because you use the rear brake as a drag brake to slow down; this lets the motor resistance drag the bike or at least stops it from accelerating). If I click the front brake lever, this activates regenerative braking (because you use the front brakes to come to a stop at a stop sign or turn). And if I click both at once it would skip the attempt at regenerative braking and just short the motor windings for maximum drag (because hitting both brakes at once means "oh sh*t I need to stop right now"). I could of course squeeze the brakes further to use mechanical braking; these would just be the things that are activated by tapping the brakes far enough to click the button without actually making the brake pads touch.

Finally, I think there should be a way to just tell the controller "maintain the current speed". You'd pedal (with or without assist) up to a certain speed, and then decide that's how fast you want to go and set the speed there. This would be more like how cruise control works on cars. I'm not sure how this interacts with the other controls or what kind of input device to use for this though.
 
Good thing you don't want much.

But hey, keep at it, and show us a better way. Most of us just choose a voltage and motor that results in full throttle traveling at the speed you like to ride. That, and a half twist throttle is good enough for many of us. It took me a year of riding ebikes, before I learned to ride at less than full throttle. I found it nearly impossible to do with a thumb throttle, or full twist.

Now when I hypermile, I tend to just pick a throttle setting, and then ride the gear that matches. So I might ride 3/5 throttle, and travel 15 mph on flats, and 10 mph up a hill. So I modulate the pedaling, not the throttle on a road 30-50 miles long between stop signs. It gets tedious though, if you start and stop much at all. On a really long stretch, I'm just gripping the bars, and keeping the throttle the same.
 
Bike cruise controls do some of what you want and are available for some controllers. I haven't hooked mine up yet, but as I understand with it on it kick in automatically once you get to a constant speed for a certain number of seconds. If my understanding is correct, then it will modulate motor assist to maintain that speed, so you can pedal assist how you want much like a car cruise control works up and down hills or if you could pedal assist a car enough to make a difference.
 
Yea denito,
e-bike throttles are inconvienent. I've found thumb-throttles easier to manipulate than twist. On 1 bike I've attached a 3" nylon screw from the brake level and back under the grip. When the thumb throttle is 2/3rds on or more I can "latch" a thin nut (on end of nylon screw) into a slit on the the thumb lever. If I hit the brakes, the thin nut drops out of the slit of the thumb lever, or a downward bump from my thumb does the same. If my battery is low and not holding 20mph, I can turn the nut about a round to increase the throttle back up to 20mph cruise. After a few rides, it becomes automatic to 'bump' the simple 90 cent homemade cruise control to 'off' whenever anything seems to require my attention.

Have experimented with removing the spring from the throttle, applied a thick grease in the right places inside throttle so its' speed setting doesn't alter due to vibration. You can imagine the dangers asssiciated with this. "Rogue e-bike charges thru crowd injuring scores of people at local event." Don't try this at home. It is dangerous :evil:

However, e-city sells a 3-speed kit throttle controller. As near as I can tell, it's a cruise control with 3 settings. Seems you set it lo, mid, hi and then you have to apply the throttle which is controlled by this device. Sooo, my next baby project may be to hook up the 3-speed cruise in unison with a springless throttle that can remain stable at any setting. This is contingent on the 3-speed kit having a "stop/kill" setting that will allow safe use (when I receive the kit).

Hmmm, denito, you want sophisticated control of speed and/or torque using 2 motors, sorry, above my paygrade.
 
I get cramped up after holding WOT for more than 25 miles. Cruise would be great when not in the City/Burbs. Preferably it would add value to just set WOT and tune the battery current leading into the controller to suit: When on flat open road WOT makes sense, but if climbing a hill with an upgraded controller that can handle all juice a person could give it, the effort needlessly ends up throwing energy away especially for long-haul treks. To control or vary torque perhaps a Current Throttle to compliment the Voltage Throttle would be in order.

Fechter made one design, and there’s a guy at this link below selling them as well. I hope to test the current throttle theory very shortly on some local hills and see how it goes. For my money it would be great to have an integrated smart interface.
Link: RC Throttle

~KF
 
I use various techniques for 60 mile rides that may not have two stop signs the length of it. Half throttle is the key. Better still, a thumb throttle converted to half. That way you have both. Glue a piece of 1" pvc to the thumb throttle, or put some kind of clamp on a half throtle, like a handlebar mount fitting that makes a thumb lever. Most of the ride, I don't grab the hell out of either handlebar, but just ride with my palms on the grips and my fingers open. The friction on the half throttle is enough to maintain the trottle setting I've chosen. Sometimes I may remove the plastic washer, and allow the grip to get sticky on the throttle too.

For sure, about 15 miles of pushing on a thumb throttle, or worse grabbing a full throttle gets tiring.
 
...or worse grabbing a full throttle gets tiring.
Or being tired and grabbing the throttle :shock: :)

A couple of times I nearly launched myself into an intersection.
Must be alert always. :roll:

Dogman, I like your solution; simple.
~KF
 
I just install my thumb throttle snug enough that it rubs against my twist shifter enough the it stays in place when I let go. Another thing I did that worked nice for riding with people on normal slow bikes was use a potentiometer as a throttle with out any modification. Just turn it to the speed I want. Would just leave it at their speed the whole ride and use the breaks with electrical cut-off for remaining stopped or trimming speed when needed.
 
I use the one built into the infineon controllers. It works great for hypermiling. At about 17-18mph it matches my cadence and i can get about 5-6 miles per ah in the flats 10-11wh/per mile. It does lag a bit on hills and doesnt maintain the true mph that you set but it tries to adjust itself accordingly and give the motor more amps overcome the grade. At lower speeds around 10-15 i find it barely uses 50 watts.
 
Denito

Since you said you build your own controller, here is what I use. I use a slide potentiometer along with current mode control, instead of voltage regulation that just outputs a selected pulse width modulated level. It is a critical safety feature to have brake lever cut-off switches this way because the potentiometer holds its position. I hold the potentiometer in my hand and push the slider post up and down with my thumb.
 
My Callisto has built in cruise on the throttle bay seller also selling just the throttle
Not sure if it will take 48v though its a 36v I have used it a few times works great
heres the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/Throttle-electric-bike-/110470155998?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19b888cede
 
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