bike crash video
- Thread starter whatever
- Start date
mwkeefer
1 MW
damn, that took 2 takes to see... must have hurt like hell!
-Mike
-Mike
The guy didn't seem to have any significant lighting and he just ran through the intersection while someone takes a left turn? Really?
+1 for the gene pool. Or would that be a minus 1?
Considering the fatal motorized biking accident at http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19660&start=0, it looks like it's motorized bicycle hunting season in Arizona.
It looks like the driver was caught.
+1 for the gene pool. Or would that be a minus 1?
Considering the fatal motorized biking accident at http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19660&start=0, it looks like it's motorized bicycle hunting season in Arizona.
It looks like the driver was caught.
Hard to tell from the video if the bike had sufficient lighting or not; if it was aimed forward in a narrow enough beam and/or angled leftward to help oncoming traffic see him (which I have done on my bikes before) it would still have been highly visible from the car that hit him but not from the camera.
Around the valley, I do see lots of people making left turns without even slowing down at the intersection even if it is other cars that are oncoming rather than just me (or another cyclist), and some actually speed up so they can "make it" before the other traffic crosses, rather than doing the sensible thing and slowing or stopping to wait for a safe turn. I have on occasion had to significantly slow down and slightly hold up traffic behind me because of left turners that obviously weren't going to stop and I wasn't going to go thru the intersection and get hit despite me having the green light to go.
It is good that they caught the driver, though it does little for the guy that died.
FWIW, as an example from today's work commute, which was much worse than usual:
On my way to work I saw four separate incredibly stupid car tricks, only two of which actually resulted in collisions with other vehicles. The first of the other two completely missed everything, including the road, and ended up in a house (well, in the yard and almost into the wall). The other managed to miss everything except the road, which it hit repeatedly as it rolled over and over, after attempting a U-turn at perhaps 60MPH (on a 40MPH road).
The first of the two car collisions was almost including me, but I got lucky and exited the lane just before Mr Stupid decided to live up to his name. There is a left turn only lane in a divided median, used to exit Dunlap to get into the southern part of the Metrocenter business park immediately north of Dunlap. There was a car waiting to turn right out of that park onto Dunlap, in the driveway that this left turn lane points at/exits to, and I thought nothing of it as that is normal. But as soon as I had exited the left turn lane and passed the waiting car, it gunned it's engine and went straight for the lane I had just left.
In the wrong direction, of course, since it is for going *into* where this guy was exiting from. THere were other vehicles right behind me waiting to turn left as well, and you can guess what happened next....
Exactly the same type of lane exists on Peoria, to get to the business park where I work, and exactly the same thing happened there, except the person entering the wrong way came from Peoria rather than from the park. She missed the left turn lane that is just east of there which actually *is* for her direction, a few dozen feet east on Peoria, and instead of continuing on to the next legal (and safe) turn she decided to drive right into the waiting traffic in the (for her) wrong lane, bouncing first on the concrete median since it isn't angled to allow a turn from that direction (of course).
All that was in a less-than-ten-minute ride on my way to work around 1130am, in very light traffic. There were others, but none resulted in anything other than me wondering how these people were ever allowed to drive, much less why they are still on the road now.
On my way home, in much heavier traffic around 530pm, there were a few bumper-crunchers, mostly from people not paying attention and trying to go from a stop when the light was still red, except for the green left turn arrow (not for their lane). I guess they just saw cars start moving and hit the gas automatically, and crunched whoever was in front of them.
One very dangerous driver was going the wrong way on the divided Metro Parkway (an oval drive around Metrocenter, about 2.5 miles in circumference); this driver did not stop for the traffic lights either, because of course they don't face the direction he was going in the lane he was in, so he barreled thru, screeching around the car going perpendicular to him. I'm just glad he wasn't driving on the side of the road I was on. I heard sirens rigth after that so maybe they were chasing him, but I didn't see any police.
I keep telling myself I am going to build a little helmet mount for my camera so I can video-record my rides, and everytime a day like this happens I regret not having done it yet.
Around the valley, I do see lots of people making left turns without even slowing down at the intersection even if it is other cars that are oncoming rather than just me (or another cyclist), and some actually speed up so they can "make it" before the other traffic crosses, rather than doing the sensible thing and slowing or stopping to wait for a safe turn. I have on occasion had to significantly slow down and slightly hold up traffic behind me because of left turners that obviously weren't going to stop and I wasn't going to go thru the intersection and get hit despite me having the green light to go.
It is good that they caught the driver, though it does little for the guy that died.
FWIW, as an example from today's work commute, which was much worse than usual:
On my way to work I saw four separate incredibly stupid car tricks, only two of which actually resulted in collisions with other vehicles. The first of the other two completely missed everything, including the road, and ended up in a house (well, in the yard and almost into the wall). The other managed to miss everything except the road, which it hit repeatedly as it rolled over and over, after attempting a U-turn at perhaps 60MPH (on a 40MPH road).
The first of the two car collisions was almost including me, but I got lucky and exited the lane just before Mr Stupid decided to live up to his name. There is a left turn only lane in a divided median, used to exit Dunlap to get into the southern part of the Metrocenter business park immediately north of Dunlap. There was a car waiting to turn right out of that park onto Dunlap, in the driveway that this left turn lane points at/exits to, and I thought nothing of it as that is normal. But as soon as I had exited the left turn lane and passed the waiting car, it gunned it's engine and went straight for the lane I had just left.
In the wrong direction, of course, since it is for going *into* where this guy was exiting from. THere were other vehicles right behind me waiting to turn left as well, and you can guess what happened next....
Exactly the same type of lane exists on Peoria, to get to the business park where I work, and exactly the same thing happened there, except the person entering the wrong way came from Peoria rather than from the park. She missed the left turn lane that is just east of there which actually *is* for her direction, a few dozen feet east on Peoria, and instead of continuing on to the next legal (and safe) turn she decided to drive right into the waiting traffic in the (for her) wrong lane, bouncing first on the concrete median since it isn't angled to allow a turn from that direction (of course).
All that was in a less-than-ten-minute ride on my way to work around 1130am, in very light traffic. There were others, but none resulted in anything other than me wondering how these people were ever allowed to drive, much less why they are still on the road now.
On my way home, in much heavier traffic around 530pm, there were a few bumper-crunchers, mostly from people not paying attention and trying to go from a stop when the light was still red, except for the green left turn arrow (not for their lane). I guess they just saw cars start moving and hit the gas automatically, and crunched whoever was in front of them.
One very dangerous driver was going the wrong way on the divided Metro Parkway (an oval drive around Metrocenter, about 2.5 miles in circumference); this driver did not stop for the traffic lights either, because of course they don't face the direction he was going in the lane he was in, so he barreled thru, screeching around the car going perpendicular to him. I'm just glad he wasn't driving on the side of the road I was on. I heard sirens rigth after that so maybe they were chasing him, but I didn't see any police.
I keep telling myself I am going to build a little helmet mount for my camera so I can video-record my rides, and everytime a day like this happens I regret not having done it yet.
From that video it looks like he may have been riding the wrong way down a one way street yeah? Those cars seem to be awful close to the left hand curb. Not obeying traffic laws is one of the most common ways cyclists get killed. Other one is getting ran into from behind.
liveforphysics
100 TW
That guy needed a cycle-illuminator from Justin badly. Would have saved his life.
No, that isn't a oneway at that intersection. Even if I didn't know the roads (which are scary there), I can see a car making a right turn from the same direction the bike comes from, shortly before the bike does.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Rural+Road+and+Southern+Avenue.&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=S+Rural+Rd+%26+E+Southern+Ave,+Tempe,+Maricopa,+Arizona+85282&gl=us&ei=IHVFTKi-DJL6swPF3KmAAg&ved=0CBMQ8gEwAA&ll=33.392853,-111.925645&spn=0.00174,0.002411&t=h&z=19
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Rural+Road+and+Southern+Avenue.&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=S+Rural+Rd+%26+E+Southern+Ave,+Tempe,+Maricopa,+Arizona+85282&gl=us&ei=IHVFTKi-DJL6swPF3KmAAg&ved=0CBMQ8gEwAA&ll=33.392853,-111.925645&spn=0.00174,0.002411&t=h&z=19
dogman dan
1 PW
Sad to hear about, and even worse to actually see it. But seriously, the guy looked like a lemming to me. When one car turns left, you gotta assume the next one will too. Having the right of way, ( if both cars ran a red light) means nothing whether you are on the bike or in a dump truck. The dummies are going to left cross you, you just know it. Looking at that video many times, I just see no indication that the bike rider ever saw it coming, a quick swerve could have saved his life.
Here is how it's done. Apply only rear brake, hopefully locking it up just for an instant, and throw yourself left as hard as you can. As soon as the rear end starts to drift, let off the brake and give it all the throttle you have. You'll get out of that lane in a hurry. Now the tricky part, if you have cars coming straight through the intersection, now you are in thier land. So you have to immediately reverse the manuver the other direction so you can thread the needle between the cars since you are now going the wrong way down thier side of the road.
It can be done, I did it 3-4 times on motorcycles, and at least twice on bikes.
The second car that actually hit the dude, was very very likely having his view of the oncoming bike blocked by the car in front. Something to remember. If you take the lane to cross at a big light, most likely you are behind a car, and look like a space in the traffic to the cars across the intersection. So a left turner, ( almost allways running the red in my town) will think he's got a space where you are.
Hope they do hang him from a tall saguaro by his dangly parts for driving off after hitting the guy though.
Here is how it's done. Apply only rear brake, hopefully locking it up just for an instant, and throw yourself left as hard as you can. As soon as the rear end starts to drift, let off the brake and give it all the throttle you have. You'll get out of that lane in a hurry. Now the tricky part, if you have cars coming straight through the intersection, now you are in thier land. So you have to immediately reverse the manuver the other direction so you can thread the needle between the cars since you are now going the wrong way down thier side of the road.
It can be done, I did it 3-4 times on motorcycles, and at least twice on bikes.
The second car that actually hit the dude, was very very likely having his view of the oncoming bike blocked by the car in front. Something to remember. If you take the lane to cross at a big light, most likely you are behind a car, and look like a space in the traffic to the cars across the intersection. So a left turner, ( almost allways running the red in my town) will think he's got a space where you are.
Hope they do hang him from a tall saguaro by his dangly parts for driving off after hitting the guy though.
dogman dan
1 PW
Looking again, it's not a one way street. In the first seconds of the vid, you can see a cars lights making a right turn. It also looks like the guy on the bike does try to swerve a bit, but too late and not enough.
I've been left crossed sooooo many times on motorcycles, mopeds, bikes, etc that now they never ever suprise me. Unless they don't left cross me.
I've been left crossed sooooo many times on motorcycles, mopeds, bikes, etc that now they never ever suprise me. Unless they don't left cross me.
grindz145
1 MW
It's a brutal reminder to be cautious in traffic... It's hard because you can't ride them like a bicycle and you can't ride them like a motorcycle. I should probably accept it as a reason to wear full motorcycle gear at all times....
Saw this on the news; sad. This is my usual route. The bicyclist had the right of way and he was going with the flow of traffic.
The car driver probably did not see the bicyclist coming or insufficient lighting. A lot of times, drivers underestimate the speed of a bicycle because of a very
small frontal area, it is difficult for drivers to gauge your speed. A left hook like that is difficult to avoid.
For me the worst time to commute with a lot of potential for left hook is when the sun is setting low on the west when the sun can blind drivers or at night when there is low visibility and, ironically, sporadic traffic when the idiots come out at night or early in the morning. My safest commute time is also the busiest time on the road, around rush hour when I blend with the traffic flow.
The car driver probably did not see the bicyclist coming or insufficient lighting. A lot of times, drivers underestimate the speed of a bicycle because of a very
small frontal area, it is difficult for drivers to gauge your speed. A left hook like that is difficult to avoid.
For me the worst time to commute with a lot of potential for left hook is when the sun is setting low on the west when the sun can blind drivers or at night when there is low visibility and, ironically, sporadic traffic when the idiots come out at night or early in the morning. My safest commute time is also the busiest time on the road, around rush hour when I blend with the traffic flow.
lcyclist said:
Indeed. It's harder to estimate speed looking at something coming directly towards you, since the only indication is the rate of the frontal area's growth (And reference points are less visible at night), so when someone sees someone on what is presumably a bicycle, they'll tend to rely more heavily on assumptions of a bicycle's typical speed. When that's mismatched with the bicycle's actual speed... then bad things happen.
Lighting may have played an issue too. If he had bright lights on, there's a higher likelihood they may have inferred it was a fast-moving motorcycle. (Of course, no lights makes the situation worse.)
dogman dan
1 PW
FAIL. The correct ansewer to the test question is the bike never has the right of way. Till you start riding like that you're dead meat. Harsh, but it's reality. This example also points out another thing I harp about, when they see a bike, they think 10 mph, and they'll whack you for doing 35. They will left and right cross you constantly. If you look like a motorcycle, then they think 50 mph, and get less likely to cross you. IF THEY SEE YOU AT ALL. I'm 95% sure the second car had it's view blocked by the first car, and never saw the bike at all. That guy died for assuming the second car saw him. Always ride as though your were invisible, chances are good that you are. Ok I'll stop preaching now, but seeng this one gets me going. Especially when you darwin award candidates commute on your 72v rigs in american traffic.
mud2005
10 kW
dogman said:
good advice, I'm going to start wearing a bright orange safety vest when I ride and still assume I'm invisible.
dogman said:
A bicyclist has the same rights on the public road as a other vehicle drivers.
I agree that that the bicycle will always lose on the event of a collision with a car. In this case, I believe the bicyclist was not seen due to insufficient ligthing (for his speed); a motorcycle or a perhaps another car would also have suffered the same fate if not lighted properly or for poor visibility.
Having the same rights as other public road user, you are subject to the same rules on the road. This means riding predictably, stopping at stop signs and red lights, etc-- including being properly lighted (head light and tail lights, and no I don't believe in blinking tail lights). Same as you would driving a car.
Like you, I log thousands of miles a year on a bicycle (on road bikes and e-bikes). I have always riden my bike as if I am riding my car on public roads.
drewdiller
100 W
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2009
- Messages
- 172
This. Basically because cyclists are often off the side of the road, and are not anywhere near as wide as a car.dogman said:
I live in a suburb and I have to be careful when using ped paths and cross walks. There are some intersections where a right hand turn with a red light is treated as "stoptional". I did a stoppie just two feet shy of a guy's driver door the other day.
Sad to see this, but thank you for posting it, if for nothing more than the sobriety of it, OP. =/
dogman dan
1 PW
It's a dilemma. I'm all for asserting my road rights too. I spent a year and a half trying to train the drivers at a crosswalk not to right cross me where the bike path crosses a major road. I'd sit there through the light wearing bright yellow, even making eye contact with the driver next to me, and as soon as the light turned green, along with my walk signal, the f---- would right cross me. I'd tap on the window and point, then point at the walk signal.
Every single freaking day I did this and never saw any improvement in the drivers. ALL of em right crossed me. Now I get out into the road and take a lane, but I wont go till I have a car next to me in the other lane blocking the left crosser that I dang well know is out there about to kill me.
Maybe it's just my city, they really do drive like mexico here nowdays. But really, road rights are important. Just not nearly as important as being aware when that first car turning left is blocking the next car from seeing you. It's just like flying, you stay ahead of things or you become legs sticking out of a hole in the ground.
Every single freaking day I did this and never saw any improvement in the drivers. ALL of em right crossed me. Now I get out into the road and take a lane, but I wont go till I have a car next to me in the other lane blocking the left crosser that I dang well know is out there about to kill me.
Maybe it's just my city, they really do drive like mexico here nowdays. But really, road rights are important. Just not nearly as important as being aware when that first car turning left is blocking the next car from seeing you. It's just like flying, you stay ahead of things or you become legs sticking out of a hole in the ground.
whatever
100 kW
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2010
- Messages
- 1,297
cars always win against bikes, I always try stay one step ahead of the cars, has saved me a few times, I try to play safe and dont give them any opportunity for a collision. That accident was so avoidable, two lives ruined in an instant, there will probably be many more serious accidents unfortunately. Especially as the speeds of ebikes with mods can be very high.
I hope posting the vid increases awareness of how it only takes an instant or slight miscalculation/misjudgement to loose a life.
I hope posting the vid increases awareness of how it only takes an instant or slight miscalculation/misjudgement to loose a life.
John in CR
100 TW
I try to add to the invisibility assumption to position myself were they couldn't hit me if they intentionally try to do so. Laws and rights of way are fine and dandy, but they're for establishing fault in an accident as far as I'm concerned. Having the right of way does little good from the grave. You cars can't hit me if you tried is my riding motto. 8)
Dogman,
You're right about the 72V rigs stateside. If I rode there I'd need to be at least at 150V. 72V just isn't peppy enough to mix with cars at those speeds. 8)
Dogman,
You're right about the 72V rigs stateside. If I rode there I'd need to be at least at 150V. 72V just isn't peppy enough to mix with cars at those speeds. 8)
Dang
So sad..feeling very sorry for the poor guy and yes I agree with the sentiments posted, you always have to assume cars are going to turn on you, I always slow down in this situation on my bike and my e-bikes. He didnt look that well lit either and may have not been wearing a helmet, I dont know the extent of his injuries or what actually killed him but I would bet looking at it may have been the impact to his head.
Cycle lights and high powered ones would have helped here, one thing I do see though is a lot of these high powered lights offer no side illumination? here in the UK its illegal to ride without a light front or rear that doesnt produce side illumination, these high power focused beam units that are on sale are great for seeing where you are going but not so great at being seen from the side.
I run tire files those LED lights on my wheels and have front and rear LED lights with side illumination to run with my halogen front beam.
I am so glad they caught the guy, not stopping after that, one would have to assume he was maybe DUI or not legally on the road.
Heart goes out to the family
Knoxie
So sad..feeling very sorry for the poor guy and yes I agree with the sentiments posted, you always have to assume cars are going to turn on you, I always slow down in this situation on my bike and my e-bikes. He didnt look that well lit either and may have not been wearing a helmet, I dont know the extent of his injuries or what actually killed him but I would bet looking at it may have been the impact to his head.
Cycle lights and high powered ones would have helped here, one thing I do see though is a lot of these high powered lights offer no side illumination? here in the UK its illegal to ride without a light front or rear that doesnt produce side illumination, these high power focused beam units that are on sale are great for seeing where you are going but not so great at being seen from the side.
I run tire files those LED lights on my wheels and have front and rear LED lights with side illumination to run with my halogen front beam.
I am so glad they caught the guy, not stopping after that, one would have to assume he was maybe DUI or not legally on the road.
Heart goes out to the family
Knoxie
johnrobholmes
10 MW
Thats a pretty slow wreck too. Sorry to hear it ended in a fatality. Certainly, it could have been avoided in many ways. The biker didn't even try to swerve, makes me wonder if he even saw it coming.
Patriot4
100 mW
I have not had a driver license in 15 years now. I live in Denver, Co. Have been riding a bicycle ever since as riding the bus has so many weird, angry, drugging, and just strange people. I have had my original E-Bike now for 4 years. Back to the topic, YOU must assume that riding a bike is going to get you killed. Never assume a person see's you, even when they seem to be looking in your eyes. Learned that lesson the hard way. Always give up the right a way even if it is yours. You always lose. The biggest problem riding a bike and even more so on an E-Bike when your on the streets is that you have to be constantly aware and anticipating. The times I have gotten in trouble is daydreaming and not concentrating. Denver recently passed a law that the car driver has to be at least 3 feet clearance before they can pass you. That would be nice, (Dream On). The last thing is riding down the street with parked cars. Most of them have tinted windows and you cannot see inside. Over this time I have hit 3 doors form people opening them in front me. The worst, I actually bent his door back all the way and busted his window. I wasn't hurt bad, bloody nose and black eyes, bike bent the fork back so much it wouldn't roll. At first the driver was cussing me out, then realized he was at fault and calmed down to the point of offering help. I was only 2 blocks from home. I do not like calling the police. Justice system sucks. The point being, riding along with cars is dangerous! It is you against them, they are dumber and out weigh you at least 10 to 1. That' why I never get in fights with the big guys. Ray
docnjoj
1 GW
Yep!
otherDoc
otherDoc
Harold in CR
100 kW
My stupid Sister-in-law, actually ran into the broadside of a BIG Caterpillar Rubber Tired Loader. It was backing toward the road, and the flag guy kept waving her on. 
I asked her if she never SAW the thing. Her response -----------
I HAD the Right of way, because the guy waved me on. She TOTALLED the car.
Unfortunately, in Florida, most bikers feel THEY have the Right of way, REGARDLESS of the situation. They get run over pretty regular on A1A, the Beach Road, because they ride 4-5 wide in the lane.
That's why I want a 3 wheeled car type rig.
Down here, in the campo, little blinking lights are used by a few riders. Even in the dark, those little lights are hard to see, until you really close in on 'em.
I think, at night, 2 headlights should be used. Place them as wide as possible, so opposing drivers MIGHT think you are bigger than you really are ?? I wouldn't matter to me if i use a few extra killi-winkles of battery. It's MUCH better than laying in a hospital bed, or on a cold slab
I asked her if she never SAW the thing. Her response -----------I HAD the Right of way, because the guy waved me on. She TOTALLED the car.
Unfortunately, in Florida, most bikers feel THEY have the Right of way, REGARDLESS of the situation. They get run over pretty regular on A1A, the Beach Road, because they ride 4-5 wide in the lane.
That's why I want a 3 wheeled car type rig.
Down here, in the campo, little blinking lights are used by a few riders. Even in the dark, those little lights are hard to see, until you really close in on 'em.
I think, at night, 2 headlights should be used. Place them as wide as possible, so opposing drivers MIGHT think you are bigger than you really are ?? I wouldn't matter to me if i use a few extra killi-winkles of battery. It's MUCH better than laying in a hospital bed, or on a cold slab
Similar threads
