Black Trail Bt-01 Anybody have any dope yet

Green Machine

Green Machine

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Does anyone have any data or information about the german Black Trail bike that was recently released?

It seems like this is the lamborghini/bugatti of ebikes. Regardless of whether there claimed range is for real (probably not) what can we learn from this beast and its german engineering? Its obvious its too expensive...but apparently they have a market if there claims of selling 44 based on a prototype are true.

I have collected the following data on it but looking for more. Most of this is company claims but i did here some details regarding motor and battery from fellow sphere members.

65mph top speed.
100 mile range (company claim)
44 lbs the battery makes up 20lbs of this (!!!)
Carbon fiber construction, many components from a company that makes f1 cf parts
17ah lifepo4 battery
Bottom bracket motor design
Giant rc motor 11kw Plattenberg Predator motor http://www.plettenberg-motoren.com/UK/Motoren/aussen/Predator/Motor.htm
Motor costs 1k and is the RC bomb http://www.icare-rc.com/catalog/predator-p-1344.html
44 were sold before the first production run
667 planned to be sold total
Matching leather battery cover, hand grips, and valve stems.
88 thousand dollar price tag

Does anyone have any more data on this bike? Ie what kind of brakes it is using..what kind of gearing, rumors, ride reports....anything??
e-bike.jpg
 
extremegreenmachine said:
what can we learn from this beast and its german engineering?
Click to expand...


To view it, is to view a physical example of absurdity and retardation.

Rigid high speed bikes = teh-fail

This is best used as an example of how to waste good materials.


We've also all ready had a number of threads discussing this bike in the past.
 
Thanks just read through those threads. Changed title of thread to be less redundant.

My question would be if it really has a Plettenberg Predator motor as one poster identified in a video...what would it take controller, gear reduction, and battery wise to convert that powerful of a motor to usable power on an ebike?

I heard this bike was at innerbike this year..did anyone see it up close and personal and get any impressions?


Does the gear reduction take place in the bottom bracket itself like the optibike? Or is the motor above the bottom bracket?

what kind of volts is it running?


What kind of componentry does it have on it?

Does it really have lifepo4 instead of lipo? Why?

I am assuming it does not have a german made Rohloff on the back because it is too much power for the rohloff to handle? I always wondered if a rohloff could take any serious power..maybe thats why the optibike is underpowered. Does it have any gears or is it just single speed?

I am just wondering if there anything to be learned from german engineering except that in small production it is ridiculously expensive...that is obvious...if you want a german watch that they only made 600 of its going to cost you 50k as well.

I am wondering if anyone has any dope on this bike...has anyone seen it or ridden it...or have all we seen just a bunch of marketing hype. Does this bike really exist and ride our streets?

I got a bunch of dope on optibike but i had to buy one...i would have to save for 30 years to buy a blacktrail so i am wondering if anyone out there has some shortcut to some dope on the blacktrail. Has anyone had there eyes or hands on one? Does it really only weigh 44 pounds? At that weight does it feel solid?

It just seems to me that ze germans made the most of the available technology last year to build this bike...there must be something to be learned from it for our own ebike builds.
 
100 mile range from a 17ah battery, LOL

This measurement was done by pedaling the bike for 97 miles and using the electric mode for 3, obviously.

Is it really a hardtail? I find that over 30mph is scary as **** on my hardtail bike if i hit a dip in the road or any debris, etc.

I saw this before. But it is even more difficult to believe now that i have more experience with higher speeds.
 
Road bikers can go 60+ mph without any problems, that's on a rigid bike with narrow tyres. Long travel suspension is no good if you want to pedal.
Ridiculous price though.
 
Yeah, on a perfectly flat road with no debris or cracks..

Cuz we all know all roads are like that :)
 
Ever gone 60mph on a roadbike with skinny tires and hit something?

Well, you are alive so i assume not :lol:
 
Does anyone know of a succesful bike build with a motor as large as the petenburg predator? From information i have deciphtered on the blacktrail its running a 17ah battery that weighs 20lbs..propably lifepo4....what voltage would you guess it is? 72 volts? 100 volts? Can a lifepo4 put out that kind of amperage. It would be fun to guess what components are possible to run that motor...what type of gear reduction etc. That motor looks like a dream for a build since it probably puts out some good hp and fits in the palm of a hand and weighs 3 lbs...i would love to build a bike with one but am trying to get clues on where to start.

I have seen people talk about builds with motors that substantial on ebikes here on the sphere, but havent seen one pulled off. I'd appreciate any link...especially on a light weight bike.

AN actual ride report of someone doing 60 mph on the blacktrail would be interesting.

For the record, on non-suspension Italian pocket bikes (one foot off the ground) with 15hp gasser motors we use to go on sunday group rides where we would hit 60 all the time on rough sf roads and it didnt seem like any big deal. We never even thought "suspension would be nice". I have done 40-50 on non-suspension electric bikes on the road and its really a non event. On the straights i believe suspension is a nicety rather than a necessity. The point about road bicycles with no suspension and razor thin tires is a goodone . The guys who designed the blacktrail were obviously sparing no expense and could have easily added bicycle suspesnion probably cheaper than what it costs them to design carbon fiber forks etc...they probably didnt see the benefit since that bike is not intended for offroad. Look at the tires...they are pretty beefy and look custom made for high speed on the road on the straights.

I have seen road bikers do amazing things....bunny hop 6 inch high curves on 15 pound bikes at speed, ride on fire roads fast down hill etc. You'd be amazed what a carbon wheel set and a skilled rider can do. They simply stand up when hitting big bumps..and they are capably of just bunny hopping over potholes since they are clipped in even if they decide not to turn around the pothole. And even if they hit the pothole on a blind curve or something they have ways of coping. I consider a good road biker like a super fly. They would laugh at the suggestion of putting suspension or fatter tires on their bikes. As far as i know suspension on bikes was considered a ridiculous gimmick until the mountain bike was invented relatively recently by the way.

I have both suspension and non suspension bikes and in my book, for riding on the road suspension is overrated...just stand up on the pedals when going over potholes. Of course i am not riding at 60...but i bet i could on the blacktrail with absolutely no worries on a straight...the thing only weighs 44lbs...

I am sure the blacktrail is not made for sustaining cruising speeds at 60...probably its riders cruise at 30-40...but since there are no real rider reports outside of marketing hype i am wondering.

Does anyone have any real data on this thing other than what the company provides? Is it single speed??

I am starting to wonder if it is just vapor ware, and the companies claims of actually selling them are bogus...its obvious jay leno was given one as a gift in exchange for a few videos.
 
The Predator has no output shaft. So, a custom motor would have been required. Also, the Predator is huge. The area for the motor looks too small for that. The Terminator (heli version) has a shaft, though. It is also smaller than the Predator. I bet that is what they are using. It is a good motor. I have one on my recumbent. They are not very efficient, though. Their efficiency is rate at a bit over 80%. I can attest to that. I get far better range out of the Astro motors that are 94 to 95% efficient. Heck, even my less costly AXI outrunner was more efficient than my Terminator. That being said, the Terminator is a fantastic motor in most respects.

Matt
 
i was basing the pletenberg predator hyposthesis based on one of the thread quoted below...this was the only real data i got on the blacktrail on the threads i read...apparently the poster recognized the motor based on the video...I think he saw a potential dope mine for someone who wants to learn from that bike...its on 2 minutes 20 seconds of the video linked to below. You get a clear shot of the motor in the video...its a fit in the palm of a hand motor...and now that i watch it again it does say "predator" on it...you can also see a lot of the gear reduction systems they are machining....matt...is that really a predator motor in the video and does it have the stock shaft you were talking about? Did they modify or get a custom predator built? You got an idea what kind of gear reduction they are running to use a motor like that? What controller, battery etc you think they have to run to make a motor like that operate at ebike speeds?

I really think there is some real dope information we can learn from bike if we can get past the ridiculous price and the con job marketing and obv lack of suspension....no one else has had a budget like that just to go crazy with modern technology and no expense spared on an electric bicycle. No one else i know of has sold 3 million dollar worth of high end ebike before the ebike is released if you believe company hype. If this bike is really running a monster motor like the predator...can someone point me out to a link to bike built here on the sphere with a monster motor like that....i would really like to have a trike with something like that on it.

dodjob said:
Hi there,
I don't know if this could interest someone (exept me) but I do know what kind of motor they seems to mount :)
I've watched this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BwPVkWCTgA
And then.. well this motor at 2:20 was something I already seen :-D
yeaap it's a plettenberg predator 25/8
you can get "detailled" infos there:
http://www.plettenberg-motoren.com/german/motoren/aussen/Predator25/Motor.htm
but honestly the price is... German :-/
Hope it helps someone :)
Servus,
H.
Click to expand...
 
Yup, that is a Predator. They must be machining a interface for the end of the can. I see they machined a fan for the motor as well.

If I had to guess, I would bet they are using a standard RC controller. There are a number of German controllers that are capable of running that motor.

Matt
 
Hi there,
I'm the previous poster ^^
I've taken my sources there:
http://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/showthread.php?4350-PG-Bikes-Black-Block
For the video I found it alone. But it's really seems to be a predator.
Concerning the gearing they use this system:
http://www.clean-mobile.com/index.php?
As you can see double chain gearing, that's "clean" ;)
Gruß,
H.
 
Pretty sick dogbob...

At this moment i really wished i read german so i could check out those forums....maybe those guys would like me there. :p

Do you know anything about that clean mobile drive system? Is it something they are marketing to general public or something only for oem's? Do you know the price?

Do you know why there not running a rohloff in that black trail configuration? Would it just blow the rohloff up?
 
hi exteembreetachine,
eh eh if you want to read german you just have to learn it ;) That will also help you to taste good beerS in the future ^^
These are unfortunately all the infos I have. I know that they are making very strong advertisement action for braindead. With stuff like: 3000rpm and 150Nm. because they don't measure it at the same place ;)
PG are well known here for quality frames, their ebike ARE very good cruiser-ebike but the price is.. well a real joke. Count 7000 euros for a black block... it's exactly two time too much, and with this you don't get any suspension :roll:
Anyway their motors/gearing an batteries are very good. I live in Regensburg and we have a few of them running here for about two years, they perform really hard.
I don't think they don't use rohloff because they would break but more to save money. They use nu-vincy drive because it's cool, they sell customs bike because it's cool and they sell it too expensive because it's cool to pay something too much when it has a brand on it (cf apple).
I wanted to try to get some contact with clean-mobile but I really doubt that they will sell it in small quantity. They equip other famous bike if you take a look on their website.
On an other hand, making a retrofit design on their machine would be interesting. I like this thing a looot. F###! why am I so poor ;)
gruß,
H
 
Yummmmm .....Clean-Mobile

I feel like we are cracking some kind of secret german puzzle from the ebike underground....

I got to get me one of those clean-mobile systems and fix it to one of those pletenburg predators....and then bolt it to one of them tadpoles, get about 50lbs of hobby city lipo, and then strap one of those go pro videos to my head and see where i go from there.

This could be an exciting summer :) i am going to see if i can set some kind of record coast to coast on electric 3 wheels.

Dodjob dont let us down...use those german speaking skills to get us a good price on those clean-mobiles! Me and you until the wheels fall off we will arrange a group buy...in fact we got to get like 10 predators while we are at it as well, and the have 10 carbon frames custom made in china from our autcod drawings and it has place for 20lbs of lipo in the carcass optibike style. oh oh oh and that frame has got to have suspension.That way they wont say we just copied blacktrail. We order like 200lb of lipo from hobby king and have it boat shipped. We work together and we do the most expensive group buy ever....sphere heroes we will be. There are going to be some clean looking bikes floating around the sphere this time next year.

Oh wait..getting ahead of myself...does anyone got any more dope on the blacktrail?
 
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19965
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20404&p=297769
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=17090
 
THanks Miles,

I have been trying to scour those threads for information...but its hard to find anything over the banter of the sticker price...i could buy an electric car for that! Etc...there seems to be no real information out on that bike and wondering if anyone has any. I am trying to collect all the real info here in one place. Its really interesting that a company could cover up information about that bike so effectively. This thread might become there worst nightmare.

I am just trying to get a list of components on that thing so we can do a blacktrail group buy....i think we can get the bulk of the components for under 5k...bear with me...

Does anyone know a good leather maker in argentina or something for seat, hand grips and valve stems? :|

So based on one of Miles link someone said that the blacktrail has a nuvinci hub, a hub that can be bought on close out now for $250....is that true? Will that nuvinci hub really put up with that kind of power? I really doubt it has this hub because the hub itself weighs 10lb...how the hell could they get the bike down to 44 lbs with that kind of waste? Has anyone seen this bike up close and know what kind of transmission the rider is pedaling through?
 
Clean Mobile's new harmonic chain drive is more interesting than their 3 stage chain drive.....

http://www.e-monday.de/Aktuelles/Aktuelles/downloads_files/gruber.pdf

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cykelportalen.dk%2Fharmonic-chain-drive%2F&sl=da&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8
 

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Crikey - they've left no stone unturned! The triplex one with rollers looks do-able at home (notice they've had to split up the ring gear to make assembly possible) and may be reasonably efficient. I'd forgotten the old harmonic drive - great way of getting a big ratio in a single stage!
The first diagrams with the slidey things - ugh!
Damit - I want to make one now - fix the sun sprocket to the crank, drive the 2 planet wheels from the motor (2 chains) and put the normal bike chain on the outer ring - nice for a mid drive - the normal bike gearing would be slightly geared down when the motor stops.....
 
neptronix said:
Yeah, on a perfectly flat road with no debris or cracks..
Cuz we all know all roads are like that
Click to expand...

I watched some of the Paris Roubaix road race last night, They probably weren't pulling 60mph, more like 30-40kmh, but they certainly were riding road bikes with 19mm tyres over very rough cobble stones.
 
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