Bosch 36V fatpacks opened up

Doctorbass said:
LiMn are like li-co and liPo about the LVC.
Click to expand...

Maybe I was thinking of emolis, but after just double checking their discharge chart again (attached) they only go to 2.5v/cell so I must have just been smoking crack on the 2v/cell LVC thought... coulda sworn I remember reading about how 2v/cell is fine for LiMn, but maybe I'm thinking of A123s or something instead. My bad. The falloff is so fast anyway might as well set it to 2.7v+ as the good doctor says. Not like there is much extra useable capacity between 2.7v and 2v.

View attachment IMR26700.pdf
 
pwbset said:
The falloff is so fast anyway might as well set it to 2.7v+ as the good doctor says. Not like there is much extra useable capacity between 2.7v and 2v.
Click to expand...

Heck after 32V there's precious little left in my packs so I'm missing out on nothing having a controller with a 31.5V LVC.

I placed the front motor/wheel on my indoor trainer and ran it full throttle for 66 minutes and recorded voltage and Ah used from the Watts Up meter.


ebike 001.jpg


It wasn't exactly a 1C discharge since the current started at 6.1A then fell steadily throughout to a final of 5.1A but it did track the on-the-bike data I recorded a week earlier. http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=7569&start=105#p149092

Here is the plot of the voltage Vs Amp-hours which ended at 6.06Ah at 31.5V or less than the 6.4 Ah maximum I've gotten on the bike when discharged over a longer period, and in a colder environment.


3fatpack1c2.jpg


Yeah I know it's crude compared to computer plots but it accurately displays what I get with the 3 Fatpacks :wink:

-R
 
I finally got my 3 fatpacks wired up and running on my Kollmorgen friction drive setup. It started to rain a couple of miles after I went out so I couldn't get a feel for their range but they do give me about 2 mph top speed over my old sla batteries. I don't have a watts up meter but it feels like they sag a lot less too.

I'm going to say for the price you just can't beat these packs.
 
So if you had the choice between:

- 4 fatpacks, landed for Aus$440
or
- 1 Ping 36V 10 Ahr landed for a little over Aus $500

Which is the better option?
Thanks.
 
s_t said:
- 4 fatpacks, landed for Aus$440
or
- 1 Ping 36V 10 Ahr landed for a little over Aus $500
Click to expand...

37v8.8ah = 325wh @ $440 = $1.35/wh

36v10ah = 360wh @ $500 = $1.39/wh

Pretty much the same price. The fatpacks will weigh a lot more (unless you strip and use the raw cells), but will deliver a TON more power... like 4p could sustain 100A+ easily while the Ping would struggle to deliver you 25-30A. In theory the Ping will last a lot longer cycle-wise, but no one has hard data on that yet. You'll get an extra km or three with the Ping.
 
pwbset said:
s_t said:
- 4 fatpacks, landed for Aus$440
or
- 1 Ping 36V 10 Ahr landed for a little over Aus $500
Click to expand...

37v8.8ah = 325wh @ $440 = $1.35/wh

36v10ah = 360wh @ $500 = $1.39/wh

Pretty much the same price. The fatpacks will weigh a lot more (unless you strip and use the raw cells), but will deliver a TON more power... like 4p could sustain 100A+ easily while the Ping would struggle to deliver you 25-30A. In theory the Ping will last a lot longer cycle-wise, but no one has hard data on that yet. You'll get an extra km or three with the Ping.
Click to expand...

Well, I guess I'd have to reword what I said before. At USA prices I don't think you can beat the Bosch packs right now.

Just out of curiosity, how much does a 10ah ping pack weigh? Are they really THAT much lighter? I haven't weighed my Bosch packs but they seem pretty light to me. Of course I'm used to dragging 3 slas around in my panniers.
 
Each Fatpack weighs 2 lbs 11 oz. With all of the black panels and covers taken off they are 8 ounces less than that.

A Ping 36V/10Ah V2.5 pack is more compact than even my 3 Fatpacks at 5.9x4.1x5.9 inches and lighter than a group of comparable capacity tool packs at a quoted 8.2 lbs. If the Fatpacks weren't such a darn cheap way to upgrade from SLA's to lithium I might have gone with a Ping.


-R
 
Russell said:
Each Fatpack weighs 2 lbs 11 oz. With all of the black panels and covers taken off they are 8 ounces less than that.

A Ping 36V/10Ah V2.5 pack is more compact than even my 3 Fatpacks at 5.9x4.1x5.9 inches and lighter than a group of comparable capacity tool packs at a quoted 8.2 lbs. If the Fatpacks weren't such a darn cheap way to upgrade from SLA's to lithium I might have gone with a Ping.


-R
Click to expand...

I was just about ready to go with a Ping battery myself but I am currently working on an outrunner build and wanted something that could handle a higher discharge rate.

I was just looking at a ping auction on ebay and his 10ah battery is listed as 7.8 lbs so yup, they are lighter for sure (about 3 lbs lighter than a 4 pack of bosch fatpacks assuming you don't strip anything off of them plus they have a couple more ah). I'm not so sure it's worth a $155 difference in price to shave 3 lbs but on a bike every little bit counts. I will say though, the Bosch packs are built like tanks and I think that's important on a bike too.

For me the higher discharge capability and the price won. I also like the fact that I can simply buy another pack when I feel like adding more range.
 
It's the shipping to that causes it. Cheapest shipping I've seen on ebay (to Australia) is US $55 for 2 of the batteries. So of the Aus$440, about AUS$155 of that is shipping! Ping on the other hand tell me they can ship for AUS$60.

EVTodd said:
pwbset said:
s_t said:
- 4 fatpacks, landed for Aus$440
or
- 1 Ping 36V 10 Ahr landed for a little over Aus $500
Click to expand...

37v8.8ah = 325wh @ $440 = $1.35/wh

36v10ah = 360wh @ $500 = $1.39/wh
Click to expand...
Well, I guess I'd have to reword what I said before. At USA prices I don't think you can beat the Bosch packs right now.

Just out of curiosity, how much does a 10ah ping pack weigh? Are they really THAT much lighter? I haven't weighed my Bosch packs but they seem pretty light to me. Of course I'm used to dragging 3 slas around in my panniers.
Click to expand...
 
you could ask these guys how much they will post it for
http://www.priceusa.com.au

i think there are some cheaper ones on ebay like US$45 with free postage to the US. you could buy 4 of those and then use priceusa to post them to aus.
 
I wish there was a service like that for europe ;)

But might be a business idea :idea:

To Europe the shipping actually doubles the price for a pack.
And arround here I could only find one single dealer which sells them for 200€ which is right now about 270$.

kefa said:
you could ask these guys how much they will post it for
http://www.priceusa.com.au

i think there are some cheaper ones on ebay like US$45 with free postage to the US. you could buy 4 of those and then use priceusa to post them to aus.
Click to expand...
 
I finally got around to a longer ride today. I went 12 miles (with one .5 mile hill) and my 3 fatpacks ended up at 37.7 volts.

I'm impressed so far. Much better than lead!

---Update--- I took a 16.22 mile ride today (16 mph avg speed with several longish top speed runs to keep the lycra boys behind me) with the same 1/2 mile hill at the end. Resting voltage at the end of the ride was 35.2. Now I just need to start using a real li-ion charger.
 
ok, total noob here, but.. how do you think 6 of these packs would do along with a Currie 1000w 36v motor? would it be asking too much out of these packs?
Thanks..
 
It will work just fine. I am using 6 fatpacks as an aux battery for my 1500w Wavecrest Tidalforce and it works great. Extends range about 15 miles, or 12 miles in turbo mode all the way. The torque and speed increase is incredible. An honest 35 mph without pedaling. Any faster, and I'd want to wear leathers and a full-face helmet, which wouldn't make for a very comfortable pedal-bike ride.
 
would they still be safe with a 100amp controller?..

and are they "safe", or the explode into a ball of smoke and fire and burn your nuts off variety?
 
I just got some konions in the mail from an ebay bosch fatpack. I havent picked up a charger yet but I was wondering if it would be hard to make a single or double cell charger for these konions? Do they sell double cell chargers for 18650 konions?
 
Just bought 5 packs for $40 each including shipping. :D
These will be installed inside my Tidalforce battery hub. To sum things up a bit these need to be charged at 3.7v a cell basically Lipo. What is the max charge rate?
 
momo said:
Just bought 5 packs for $40 each including shipping. :D
These will be installed inside my Tidalforce battery hub. To sum things up a bit these need to be charged at 3.7v a cell basically Lipo. What is the max charge rate?
Click to expand...

$40/ea including shipping is an amazing deal. Where please? With prices about 1/2 in the past year, I can't wait for next year. $.25/wh is the magic number for good lithium IMHO.

John
 
Go to live.com, sign up if you don't have an account yet. (free). You must have an Ebay and Paypal account also.
On live.com's web page after you sign in type in bosch 36v battery. Look for a listing from ebay.com. If it does not
show up then keep clicking on seach until it does. Then search for the
lowest price having a cashback symbol. Then just buy it now. Read the info on cash back.


http://cgi.ebay.com/Bosch-BAT836-36V-Litheon-Fat-Pack-Battery-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ350193925214QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item51892f3c5e&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A15|294%3A50 47.99 free shipping - 8%. 10 available

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bosch-36V-Litheon-Ion-FatPack-Battery-Model-BAT836-NEW_W0QQitemZ120415487023QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0952842f&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50 49.99 free ship minus 8% 10 available
 
the cash-back account almost sounds too good to be true.. (hmm, why haven't I seen this before?)
how long has that been around?
 
MicroS**t has been doing that Cashback for more than a year now. I got $200 back on a new Ping in Sept 2008. They seem to be reducing the discount %. At one time it was 30%.
otherDoc
 
You can still get as much as 15% on some weekends, if you keep watching.
 
Finally got all my old ebike bits together into an ecruiser build for errands, to and from town etc. Building a custom 18s4p konion build that will go in the triangle eventually, but until then I'm beating on the single fat pack I got recently. I did 3 miles around town this afternoon from a 40.7v resting voltage and when I got back resting voltage was 38.7v and all 3 green LEDs were still on and I pedaled very little, but the 4011 is only good for like 10-12mph at that voltage so I probably wasn't kicking out more than a couple hundred watts max anyways... haha. Anyway.. one very short steep hill that the bike powered up no problem what so ever so even a single fatpack can deliver the goods for just a couple miles about town. Keep in mind my LVC is 19v so that clearly helps prevent controller cutouts from sag. I was pretty impressed overall though.

Feline tested and approved...
dscn5729.jpg
 
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