Brake track split. Now what?

[MarkJohnston]

Hey guys my rim blew out today. It was very hot and I was coming down several hills braking hard. My tires are too wide for rims i.e. It was nearly impossible to mount them. Maybe that adds extra strain on the rims. And the heat may have increases.my tire pressure above the max which is what they were at. Anyhow I am in a bad spot now because I rely on this as my only means of transportation. Which means I only have two days off to re build the wheel.

Do any of you guys know a down and dirty rebuild that will get my wheel true (enough). I have a wider rim that accepts the tire much more easily however the braking surface looks shot and there is rust on it and in the spoke holes seems like. Maybe not a good idea.

Let me know and time is of the essence here

I have limited tools, only a spoke tool, and no truing stand. Can I just simple copy the spoke pattern and just tighten up all spokes pretty much to the same pressure and call it good?

Oh yeah I don't trust bike shops. They are monkeys with wrenches and a lot of them won't work on ebikes.i refuse to go to them.

 

[Chalo]

Also because I asked specifically on this forum if narrow rims would fit wide tires and members who are on this thread responsed and said they would work. Those same members are now back pedaling.

Dude. Your fit problem has zero to do with the width of anything. You have a tire whose circumference isn't a good match to the rim, and the cheap janky rim or user error are the likely suspects.

Throwing shade on people trying to help you, when you don't understand anything, is not a great way to get further help.

 

[calab]

Tire size to rim width is something you should pay close attention to, I've had similar problems with random tires I find of big/small tire sizes 2.25" on narrow rim width.

 

[Chalo]

Tire size to rim width is something you should pay close attention to, I've had similar problems with random tires I find of big/small tire sizes 2.25" on narrow rim width.

I was using 2.5" and 2.6" tires on 19mm wide rims over 30 years ago. I never had the least problem mounting them. There are drawbacks to that kind of width mismatch, but getting the tire seated isn't one of them.

A tire with thick sidewalls can be difficult to seat on a narrow rim, but that's unrelated to tire width. A tire with a bead circumference that doesn't match the rim can also be hard to seat, and also isn't related to the tire's width or the rim's.

 

[MarkJohnston]

Tire size to rim width is something you should pay close attention to, I've had similar problems with random tires I find of big/small tire sizes 2.25" on narrow rim width.

I was using 2.5" and 2.6" tires on 19mm wide rims over 30 years ago. I never had the least problem mounting them. There are drawbacks to that kind of width mismatch, but getting the tire seated isn't one of them.

A tire with thick sidewalls can be difficult to seat on a narrow rim, but that's unrelated to tire width. A tire with a bead circumference that doesn't match the rim can also be hard to seat, and also isn't related to the tire's width or the rim's.

It's suppose to be a 559 ISO OR 26 INCH rim but the manufacturer didn't specify for certain. But then again it's not really seating on a different rim labelled ISO 599 but there is no way the front tire is 599 it's a 559 because 599's have been out of production for years. It's a 26 inch my dude. Both of them just by eyeballing. I'm having difficulty getting it to seat. I still haven't heard them pop in yet. The labels are kind of BS unless you are working with some serious high end rims.

 

[Chalo]

There are manufacturing variations that should all be compatible, but sometimes aren't. Especially sometimes when you're buying no-name Chinese crap, but not exclusively. For instance, Matrix rims (Trek house brand, predecessor of Bontrager rims) were famously too tight, even with Matrix tires.

I've encountered a few quality issues among the way too many Schwalbe I've installed, but so far unusually tight or loose fit isn't among them.

 

[99t4]

my floor pump maxes out at 120 ...

Do you know that for sure? Or is that just what the dial goes up to? My old Volvo speedometer goes up to 120. Lucky if that car goes over 80 downhill even lol :lol: .

Also, the gauges on floor pumps are not always well calibrated, especially at their lower and upper ranges.

How much is still left? Seems like you are making progress?

You have a tire whose circumference isn't a good match to the rim, and the cheap janky rim or user error are the likely suspects.

Yes agreed, this is the issue in my case. The Schwalbe Crazy Bob went on perfectly on the front high-quality rim (WTB Dual Duty) with minimal struggle, yet the rear cheapo rim that came pre-laced to the E-Bikeling motor is stubbornly defiant, same tire.

I've encountered a few quality issues among the way too many Schwalbe I've installed, but so far unusually tight or loose fit isn't among them.

Are you able to describe the quality issues? So far I have used Marathon Plus Performance line Smart Guard, Big Apple, and Crazy Bob. My favorite so far is Big Apple, can't see any quality issues with any of them yet. Marathon Plus left something to be desired in the rain (poor grip).

 

[Chalo]

I've encountered a few quality issues among the way too many Schwalbe I've installed, but so far unusually tight or loose fit isn't among them.

Are you able to describe the quality issues?

I've had Marathon Plus herniate at rated pressure, not many but a couple. I've had Big Apple blow off the rim at well under rated pressure, on a rim that was and is still doing just fine with all other tires. I had Crazy Bob arrive delaminated and make skritchy balloon noises from the plies rubbing together. I think that's it? Might be leaving something out.

Anyway, these issues dispelled the "German quality" mystique Schwalbe tires had for me before.

 

[MarkJohnston]

Yeah the guage on the pump is accurate. I double check with another gauge that I have. In other news I spent hours cleaning the thick layer of dish soap off my rims. I'm taking a brake from trying to seat the tire at the moment,

 

[MarkJohnston]

I have two different rims. Both are so so and probably junk. The pre laced 9C clone hub motor wheel rim was always weird to me. It comes with a super sketchy POS narrow tire that blew out on me attempting to ride it. I measured the bead seat diameter and it's 19mm. I didn't measure the circumference since is much more difficult. I guess I'll need to do that.

The bead sits straighter but still is no where near seated on the crap Chinese ebike wheel rim. I have another rim by Jalco and the there are still low spots. I might be able to pull those out with tier pliers. I'm not sure if there is any hope with the ebike rim.

 

[99t4]

I measured the bead seat diameter and it's 19mm. I didn't measure the circumference since is much more difficult. I guess I'll need to do that.

Are you confusing BSD for rim width?
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rim-sizing.html

Anyway, these issues dispelled the "German quality" mystique Schwalbe tires had for me before.

Do we know in fact where the tires are manufactured? Possible counterfeits?
We must recognize in this modern world with constant and rapid mergers/acquisitions, supply chain issues, and lowest price race to the bottom that what was once considered a solid bet is now just as fleeting chimera as anything else.

 

[Hummina Shadeeba]

Seems there’s a barcode to be sure

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=2984515

 

[MarkJohnston]

Not possible. Bought directly off the swalbe website.

 

[Chalo]

Anyway, these issues dispelled the "German quality" mystique Schwalbe tires had for me before.

Do we know in fact where the tires are manufactured? Possible counterfeits?

Doubtful. All Schwalbe tires as far as I know are manufactured by a Korean company operating in Southeast Asia. But supposedly, all the goods are physically brought back to the mothership in Deutschland, inspected and catalogued.

This is clearly not sufficient to assure a typically German level of consistency and compliance.

Tires are one of those things that might be "counterfeited" by off-hours production in the same factory, but could not be nearly profitable enough to make actual fakes. Tire production tooling is expensive, and their wholesale unit cost is low.

[youtube]V0P3oQWo22A[/youtube]

 

[MarkJohnston]

I'm talking with swalbe and they want to send me a replacement. I didn't even mention a replacement. I'm just trying to figure out why the tire won't seat. Maybe the warranty manager thinks I got a bad tire? I'm having trouble seating on another rim

 

[Chalo]

I'm talking with swalbe and they want to send me a replacement. I didn't even mention a replacement. I'm just trying to figure out why the tire won't seat. Maybe the warranty manager thinks I got a bad tire? I'm having trouble seating on another rim

They might know something about issues with that model.

 

[MarkJohnston]

I'm going to try remounting with a much thinner regular bicycle inner tube. The thick one might be taking up too much room inside.

Can I use baby powder instead of soapy water this time to help seat the bead? I hated the mess that the soapy water made. It got all over my rims. I've got plenty of baby powder to burn. The bead just doesn't seem to sit right at all on the ebike hub rim. It works fine on my other rim with the exception of a couple low spots.

I have another bicycle with a completely different rim and tire. I deflated that one today, and installed a thorn proof (super thick) inner tube into that Kenda tire. I can see the bead line all the way around but never heard the pop noise I was expecting to hear. Why didn't it make a noise when the tire seated? Anyways it looks seated to me.

 

[99t4]

I hated the mess that the soapy water made. It got all over my rims.

You don't have conditions to hose off the soap? It's that simple. :? Makes you sound like a whiner (I know you're not).

I can see the bead line all the way around but never heard the pop noise I was expecting to hear. Why didn't it make a noise when the tire seated? Anyways it looks seated to me.

Not all bicycle tires make the "pop noise" when they completely seat so you can't make that your deciding factor to indicate a proper set bead.

 

[Chalo]

Not all bicycle tires make the "pop noise" when they completely seat so you can't make that your deciding factor to indicate a proper set bead.

Almost none of them did that before the tubeless fad gave us a generation of rims that make tires difficult to mount and dismount.

 

[MarkJohnston]

Yeah but I used a ton of dish soap. I was sitting out there with the hose and it was sudding for a long time. It kept soaping out the spoke holes.

I've got brand new Kool stops salmons quite pricey. I don't want to ruin them with soap

I'm gonna take a chance with baby powder

 

[Chalo]

I've got brand new Kool stops salmons quite pricey. I don't want to ruin them with soap

I'm gonna take a chance with baby powder

They'll wash off. Baby powder is a bigger menace to them than soap.

 

[MarkJohnston]

No..the baby powder is only going on the tire bead.will clean off any access on rim with a wet cloth. Much easier cleanup.

In other news I asked swalbe about getting a free marathon plus. It might work better since it's a different bead and build. They seem willing to send one out for free. I don't know how they can afford it.

When I have the motor off im going to experiment with four different tires. I might be writing a new review about marathon plus. Except...

I'm worried marathon plus might not be suited to my needs. It's only rated to E25. I average 25 to 30 mph, double that

 

[Hummina Shadeeba]

tire ratings are pretty new and we were all flying around on unrated tires before.

https://cyclingtips.com/2022/03/why-foam-tire-inserts-are-one-of-the-best-upgrades-for-your-gravel-bike/. Won’t stop getting a flat but safer when u get one and pretty ideal not effecting the ride. I can’t find them for anything but tubeless. It’s not the topic but wonder why not add some expanding foam that would cure inside the tube and have the same effect?

 

[MarkJohnston]

Don't get tire liners. They shift and move. They don't work

 

[Chalo]

Don't get tire liners. They shift and move. They don't work

There is one notable exception to this: Tannus Armour. It's 15mm thick in the tread center (though it squishes down somewhat when left inflated for a long time). And it wraps all the way around the tube, from bead to bead.

It's fussier to install than Mr Tuffys, and substantially more expensive. But it does what it promises to do.

The foam thingies in the Cyclingtips article aren't actually tire liners. They're rim liners, with no value as anti-puncture armor.

 

[99t4]

Good solution for minimizing puncture flats, but I don't recommend it for the OP. He is having unsurmountable ( :wink: ) problems correctly mounting his tires. Adding Tannus Armour would exacerbate the situation.