Brake track split. Now what?

[MarkJohnston]

Hey guys my rim blew out today. It was very hot and I was coming down several hills braking hard. My tires are too wide for rims i.e. It was nearly impossible to mount them. Maybe that adds extra strain on the rims. And the heat may have increases.my tire pressure above the max which is what they were at. Anyhow I am in a bad spot now because I rely on this as my only means of transportation. Which means I only have two days off to re build the wheel.

Do any of you guys know a down and dirty rebuild that will get my wheel true (enough). I have a wider rim that accepts the tire much more easily however the braking surface looks shot and there is rust on it and in the spoke holes seems like. Maybe not a good idea.

Let me know and time is of the essence here

I have limited tools, only a spoke tool, and no truing stand. Can I just simple copy the spoke pattern and just tighten up all spokes pretty much to the same pressure and call it good?

Oh yeah I don't trust bike shops. They are monkeys with wrenches and a lot of them won't work on ebikes.i refuse to go to them.

 

[99t4]

Can using metal tire levers damage a rim when mounting?

IIRC, this is YOUR photo of YOUR recent new tire install LOL :lol:

A churchkey!

Why do you ask? :lol:

Could have been worse. Could have used an ice pick I guess. Or an air chisel.

 

[MarkJohnston]

That was there just to hold it sort of like a third hand and keep it from slipping

 

[Chalo]

metal tire lever! yuk

Yeah, great way to ruin some perfectly good rims. If you're going to use those, you may as well have some nasty heavy ugly steel MC rims to deface with them.

That's it? They get a little scuffed up? I'm more worried about about bending the rims.

No, MC rims would only get marked and scratched. Good bicycle rims can get crushed by a combination of metal tire levers and poor technique. I've had to rebuild expensive wheels before that I had just built, because the owner went full monkey grip on the brand new wheels with metal levers.

I have those Kool Stop pads on one of my bikes. I like them, but the holders are very wide and won't fit some combinations of rims and brakes. I'd rather use the "MTB" pattern pad in most cases. The "E-bike" pad compound is good, but not noticeably better than "Salmon" compound.

 

[MarkJohnston]

metal tire lever! yuk

Yeah, great way to ruin some perfectly good rims. If you're going to use those, you may as well have some nasty heavy ugly steel MC rims to deface with them.

That's it? They get a little scuffed up? I'm more worried about about bending the rims.

No, MC rims would only get marked and scratched. Good bicycle rims can get crushed by a combination of metal tire levers and poor technique. I've had to rebuild expensive wheels before that I had just built, because the owner went full monkey grip on the brand new wheels with metal levers.

I have those Kool Stop pads on one of my bikes. I like them, but the holders are very wide and won't fit some combinations of rims and brakes. I'd rather use the "MTB" pattern pad in most cases. The "E-bike" pad compound is good, but not noticeably better than "Salmon" compound.

Where are the brake shoes for these? I'm looking everywhere

https://www.jensonusa.com/Kool-Stop-Salmon-Road-Brake-Pad-Inserts

 

[RunForTheHills]

Where are the brake shoes for these? I'm looking everywhere

https://www.jensonusa.com/Kool-Stop-Salmon-Road-Brake-Pad-Inserts

https://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Bi...3467&sprefix=kool+stop+linear,aps,123&sr=8-10

And here are the ebike pads:
https://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-V-...x=kool+stop+v+brake+pads+ebike,aps,118&sr=8-3

 

[MarkJohnston]

Where are the brake shoes for these? I'm looking everywhere

https://www.jensonusa.com/Kool-Stop-Salmon-Road-Brake-Pad-Inserts

https://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Bi...3467&sprefix=kool+stop+linear,aps,123&sr=8-10

And here are the ebike pads:
https://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-V-...x=kool+stop+v+brake+pads+ebike,aps,118&sr=8-3

Daaaaaaamn $13 for a replacement? I'll stick with the MTB salmon ones but thank you.

 

[LewTwo]

In defense of metal tire levers ...

My light weight bike has Sun CR18 Rims fitted with 700x25 WTB Freedom Thickslick Tires.
Obviously I am not trying to carry 500 of cargo and being in Houston, Texas, I do not deal with any long steep grades. I also do not deal with any trails. Most of my flats result from Houston's poorly maintained pavements and the occasional nail.

Those plastic tire levers do nothing but bend when trying remove or install a tire ...
and yes that is with lubricant (soapy water) and the bead centered on the opposite side.
I purchased a set of iceToolz Action Steel Tire Levers to solve the problem.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0028NEHMY

Numerous flats have been dealt with using these levers and I have not damaged the rims.
The rims remain true and and run smoothly. I run rim brakes and they do NOT drag, bounce, flutter or otherwise behave improperly.

 

[MarkJohnston]

Lew


I have these. Cheap crappy motorcycle metal levers.

You can always hold them closer to the spoon part to torque less on the rim.

 

[amberwolf]

I have the same ones...but I can see the rim flex when using them on a bicycle rim with tires that are a poor (tight) fit for the rim (where pushing the bead down into the nipple groove doesn't help enough), which is probably bad. So I don't use them on bike rims; I actually use the same ones Lewtwo posted (different name, same thing).

I do use the MC levers with some moped tires on the ex-Zero rims I use on the rear wheels of SB Cruiser, but it takes very little force to mount those--mostly I use them because I have a very hard time holding onto small levers and the rim and the tire, and my joints always hurt and are much worse when doing things like mounting or dismounting tires; I'm not as young as I used to be and my hands have been thru a lot.

Those plastic tire levers do nothing but bend when trying remove or install a tire ...
and yes that is with lubricant (soapy water) and the bead centered on the opposite side.
I purchased a set of iceToolz Action Steel Tire Levers to solve the problem.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0028NEHMY

I have the same ones from a different seller; but my hands get sweaty and they slip so I had to sand the hook end (that you can use to hold it onto spokes with) and the long bar portion, to give me a better grip. I wish I had the scoring tool they use to put the diamond-type pattern on things for grips.

I've broken so many plastic levers I just got tired of it--the plastic fails after carrying them with me in the toolbag for a few months to a year, presumably from the heat here but I don't really know why, as it happens eventually to every plastic lever, even so-called fiber-reinforced ones. A long time ago, maybe in the 1990s, I got the first set I'd ever had, and they were pretty good, and lasted for several years...but every set after that has lasted less time. I suspect it's the manufacturing process and the plastic chosen, etc., but I can't really know. Some of them split at bends (like the "spoon" part) or mold lines, some just fracture or "explode" in some flat area, etc. One of them just turned gooey....

 

[MarkJohnston]

Would these be a good trying stand? Not too pricy and minora is a good brand no? I'm gonna try and learn the art of wheel building

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185451086141?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=WLzFDkYISYK&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=XkT10NRIQIe&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[Hummina Shadeeba]

Don’t know that truing stand but wish I had it now and just built some wheels. I’ve made at least 20 wheels over my lifetime and never had a stand though. It’s not hard to turn the bike into a stand w tape n something that will scrape the rim loudly. Or can go to the local bicycle kitchen where you can use their stand for free.

 

[MarkJohnston]

Used to have a co op in LA. Now I live in red neck land, land of no free stuff. It's hard out here.

 

[MarkJohnston]

New motor, new rim. It was super easy swapping it out. I think the magnets were failing on the old one and the rim surface was almost shot after 8000 miles. Not sure why the brake track split at the seam. I'm preparing to replace the old motor with a badass rim since it still works. I now have enough parts to have a back up. Plus building a wheel will be good practice for me.

I need good spokes though, will need to calculate spoke lengths

The bead never got seated correctly. I wonder if that's why this happened. I now need to to massage the tire and pump this tire up to max and maybe 2 PSI past max and then let some air out. Hopefully the tire bead isn't damaged. Didn't seem like it

 

[Chalo]

If the casing is damaged internally, it can develop an S-bend or an outward bulge. If the rim is running nice and true, but the tire is squiggling around, that's likely to be the problem.

It's more common to have the edges of the tire seated unevenly, but you claim that isn't the problem so I'll take your word for it.

 

[MarkJohnston]

If the casing is damaged internally, it can develop an S-bend or an outward bulge. If the rim is running nice and true, but the tire is squiggling around, that's likely to be the problem.

It's more common to have the edges of the tire seated unevenly, but you claim that isn't the problem so I'll take your word for it.

No. I think it's not seated correctly actually. I need to massage the bead into place. What a pain these armored tires are :| . I'm scared to inflate over the Max because I've had tires blow out in my face

 

[99t4]

I am in fact having this problem with Schwalbe Crazy Bob tire. Almost like the tire bead diameter is slightly too small for the rim O.D. There is a protruding ridge on the sidewall that is supposed to sit just proud of the rim edge but it likes to get trapped in the rim hook area for a 6"-10" section.

There is a tool for that, but could it help even in super stubborn cases? $80 gamble.
https://www.parktool.com/en-us/product/tire-seater-pts-1

 

[Chalo]

I am in fact having this problem with Schwalbe Crazy Bob tire. Almost like the tire bead diameter is slightly too small for the rim O.D. There is a protruding ridge on the sidewall that is supposed to sit just proud of the rim edge but it likes to get trapped in the rim hook area for a 6"-10" section.

Get soapy water all over the bead area, and overinflate the tire by 10-15 psi before letting it back down to operating pressure.

 

[MarkJohnston]

Look at how the reflective white line dips. There's obviously a lot more to tires then slapping them on and riding off.

 

[99t4]

I am in fact having this problem with Schwalbe Crazy Bob tire. Almost like the tire bead diameter is slightly too small for the rim O.D. There is a protruding ridge on the sidewall that is supposed to sit just proud of the rim edge but it likes to get trapped in the rim hook area for a 6"-10" section.

Get soapy water all over the bead area, and overinflate the tire by 10-15 psi before letting it back down to operating pressure.

Thanks for the suggestion; tried exactly that multiple times (at least 10-15 times) yet the stubborn section refused to seat properly. The front seated itself easily the first time but the rear not. The rear is a different rim, factory laced to Ebikeling 26" 1500w dd hubmotor. Beginning to think its overall O.D. is greater.

 

[TCVermont]

Beginning to think its overall O.D. is greater.

Sometimes feels that way, doesn't it? In my experience, though, it's highly unlikely. It's often something like a rim strip interfering with the bead seat, esp. if there's a pronounced shoulder there. Some tire and rim combinations just don't work, some rim brands just haven't ever figured out how to design a proper rim (looking at you, Trek), and there's the aforementioned stiff sidewall casings. When I get these problems I stop and put on safety glasses and hearing protectors.

If you happen to have a tubeless compatible rim design it should be safe to run it up a little over the rated pressure to get it popped on, but this is a very bad idea for conventional, non-tubeless ones. I would first mark the tire and rim where the bead seat line dips out of sight. Then remove and remount the tire rotated somewhere else from there and see if it still hangs up in the same place —check that spot for rim strip interference. Put it on, soap it up, pump it to something a bit less than max recommended inflation. Then put on your safety gear and put it in your bench vise. Keep the jaws away from the rim, but only just, and clamp down firmly on the inflated tire sidewalls. Pull it over and watch the bead seat pop into place. Flip it over and do the other side, if necessary. Don't try this with skinwall tires! Like so many things in bicycles, you have to use your judgement and be prepared to screw it up.

 

[MarkJohnston]

Well shit. I'm sitting here massaging the tire to no avail. The new hub motor wheel is true but because the bead isn't seated right the wheel looks out of true. It's pissing me off.

I want to put some rubbing alcohol on the inner rim part and overinflate by 10 or 15 PSI, but am afraid of a blow out..

Maybe using the extra thick thornless tube is messing with the bead seat?

Well actually I just delfates my front wheel and it got the bead out of whack too. Damn

 

[MarkJohnston]

I just decided to go for it and use a little bit of dish soap and water. I over inflated to 75 PSI (10 over max) and.... Nothing happened. I'm pretty disappointed. The low spot is right near my seam on my rim and I'm thinking maybe I hit something and damaged my seam because my tire wasn't seated correctly to begin with. The area around the seam shouldn't have a low spot around it or else it could split right?

 

[Chalo]

It's not damage to your rim. Inspect the rim strip to see if it's riding up on the side somewhere. Otherwise it's just a disagreement between the rim circumference and the tire bead circumference. Some combinations can be very stubborn.

If the tire isn't seated evenly the first time it's mounted, it can conform to a shape that resists ever being seated evenly.

 

[MarkJohnston]

If the tire isn't seated evenly the first time it's mounted, it can conform to a shape that resists ever being seated evenly.

Damn, $60 down the drain then

 

[99t4]

If the tire isn't seated evenly the first time it's mounted, it can conform to a shape that resists ever being seated evenly.

Damn, $60 down the drain then

Don't give up so soon!

I just got mine to seat, after riding it lump-de-lump like that for months! Was a good 6-8 inch section trapped below the rim hook.
Used my biggest Channelocks pliers while inflating, manhandling the tire section with plenty of dishsoap on the tire bead and rim hook area. Took several attempts and ended up chewing up the tire's external rim lip a bit.