Brand New Ping Battery - Care & Feeding

[pmonkey]

I have been waiting to get into the world of e-bikes over the last few years and have just recently taken the plung.

I have just ordered a new 48 V - 20 amp Ping Battery.

I want to be sure that I take care of the battery properly and don't do anything stupid straight out of the box.

What I was curious about is, if there is anything that I should be doing with the battery immediately upon receipt?

For example visual inspection (what to look for), charge the battery (and measure what?), etc.

I guess what I would be looking for would be some type of checklist of items to check before installing the battery on the E-Bike.

Then, as the subject line implies, a list of the proper care & feeding for this type of battery would be great. (I've seen some of this info here and there but have not come across a comprehensive list that's based on the combined wisdom of the Endless-sphere community.)

If this info exists somewhere else on the forum I'd appreciate you folks pointing me in the right direction.

Thanks for your time and any information or guidance will be appreciated.

 

[dnmun]

he ships them now with the BMS disconnected, so make sure to plug that in firmly, don't pull on the wires, charge it some, then discharge a little, then charge it again.

if you can expose the BMS so it gets out into the air to cool off that helps because the mosfets can get hot, especially it seems during charging.

just go easy on it to start with, don't try to exhaust it until it happens. charge regularly after use, and discharge only partially as long as possible.

i even recommend lowering the charger voltage, but that is up to you.

 

[K.E.Kopp]

I experienced a few problems with a new Ping battery which I have documented in the thread linked below.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=27001

Beyond looking for issues such as these I have a few suggestions which may be helpful:

1. Charge the battery and ensure all the BMS Channels go into shunt (the LEDs all light) if not, a cell cluster is suspect and should be examined further.
2. Try to refrain from fully discharging the full rated capacity of the pack; doing so will shorten its lifespan (true of all secondary batteries).
2b. Try not to over-draw current from the pack, limit draw to its 1C rate or less, drawing more will impact its lifespan.
3. Maintain cell balance by leaving on the charger long enough for all channels to shunt (LEDs light). Even after the charger shuts down the first time it will cycle periodically to balance the pack.
4. Keep the battery charged, don’t let it sit for months without some use, keep it active.
5. Be patient if there is a problem, Ping has made my situation good with me so to speak, even in the face of multiple quality problems. Ping has earned my respect as a good business person.

 

[dogman dan]

Pretty good list guys.

I always advise very short rides and very long chargers for about 5-10 charge cycles. Get a voltmeter, and confirm that the battery is charging fully, even though the led's on the bms now pretty much do that for you. You are looking for about 60v fully charged.

Surface charge is removed fast when you run the bike. Somewhere around 56v is pretty normal for the first miles of a ride.

Once the led's on the bms are all lighting up faster, without one or two lagging behind a lot, you are ready to start taking long rides. Idealy, you ride and recharge long before the bms trips.

Lastly, use the ping with controllers less than 30 amps.

 

[julesa]

i even recommend lowering the charger voltage, but that is up to you.

Do the new BMS's behave differently from the old Ping V1 BMS, Dennis? I wouldn't change anything from how Ping has it set up, especially if he's expected to honor his warranty. With the V1 BMS's charge algorithm, if the charger is set to less than 3.8V per cell group, I think the weakest cell or two (the number will depend on how far below 3.8V/cell the charger is set) will never get any balance charging... ?

EDIT: Never mind, I think I've got it wrong..

 

[dnmun]

i think their internal resistance and capacity are pretty close initially. so they balance easily.

when they age and have a harder time of balancing, then it takes a higher voltage to cover the slow ones when the high one tops out at 3.9V.

i think that was why ping adjusted the voltages up on the chargers, to cover the falloff over time. i think you can adjust it back up a little later.

it is not essential, it may vary with each pack too. most would not open a new charger to tinker anyway. i don't think i have a charger i have not opened. but i don't have to worry about the warranty either.

 

[999zip999]

Ping charger are ment to charge at 60.4v I would not adjust. I do not think they have a adjustment on the 2amp.. Anyway this is for the bms to balance the pack.

 

[jimw1960]

When you get it, if all the red blinky lights don't stay lit at the end of the first charge, don't panic. Mine took 5 or 6 charge cycles before all the leds stayed lit at the end of a charge. Since then, it has been going strong for over two years now.

 

[dogman dan]

If I had dnmun's skills, I might mess with stuff. Me though, best to just leave it alone, like ping sent it to me. :lol: :lol:

I think, other than the led's the main difference between the V1 bms and V2 bms is that the V2 balances even slower, which results in less melty bms heatshrink, and less problems with batteries stuffed into bags. So the V2 operates a bit cooler.

 

[pmonkey]

Thanks for all the advice.

I will typically need to go over the info a few times to be sure I've got it straight. (I'm definitely not an electrical wizard.)

I did spring for the 5 amp charger.

Is there anything I should be watching for / or being careful about when using the 5 amp charger as opposed to the standard 2 amp charger?

Thanks again!

 

[dogman dan]

Nothing I know of. One thing about chargers, they don't tend to like lots of bumps. So if you carry it around to charge at work or whatever, try to carry it in a backpack, or something. I had a few cheap chargers destroyed by carrying in a basket on a non suspension bike. Also, for the same reason, try not to drop it much, etc.

My routine has always been put it on the charger, and take it off again in the morning. Don't worry about leaving it charging overnight, or try to take it off the charger as soon as the green light goes on. It needs more time to balance once in a while. It is done though, when all the bms leds light up.

 

[pmonkey]

Alright let's assume everything is good out of the box and I go to install my new bouncing baby Ping Battery on my E-Bike.

I'm looking at some mounting options and my preference is in the triangle to balance out the weight distrubution.

I live in the DFW area where triple digit heat rules the day from mid June to the first part of September.

How much thought / concern should I have about keeping air flow across the battery to keep it as cool as I can? (I would guess that too much heat build up would effect lifespan and performance of the battery.)

I understand that the controller really needs to be able to dissipate heat; and I would assume that the battery would appreciate the same treatment.

Are there any neat "E-Bike Master" tricks or rules of thumb on how to keep your battery comfy in the high ambient heat months?

In addition what would be some tell tell signs that the battery is not happy and is starting to suffer from heat stroke? (Other than exploding into flames.)

Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[4sure]

I think the most important thing you can do is get a Cycle Analyst and enable the throttle over-ride. This will allow you to set an amp limit and it will protect your Ping from being over taxed. I wish had one before I damaged my pack. I was pulling way more amps than I could have imagined on my 1000watt controller/motor.
It will also let you know know how much power you've used so you can ensure you recharge it before it gets too low.

 

[dnmun]

ambient temp is not a problem in that sense. if it is really cold then the performance is limited. biggest problem is when you wreck and the battery hits something and is damaged.

never use it right out of the box, always charge it up first, and use short discharge cycles until all the leds come on at almost the same time, then try to keep it so the leds all come on at the same time. or over a few minutes time anyway.

 

[999zip999]

We need to know what motor and controller (amps) Or kit you have. A cycle analyst is the best protection for your battery. It will let you dial down the amps the controller demands from your battery. And let you know how long you have to the battery runs to low. Do not drain you battery to it runs out is best. Do charge your battery 1st. and let all the leds light up. keep it on the charger. I made a box or tray for the battery to seat in and bolted to the frame under the top bar of the triangle.

 

[pmonkey]

Here is the background on the set-up I am planning on putting together.

I purchased one of the kits from Ilia.

600 W BMC V2 Rear Hub Motor
Crystalyte 12 FET Controller
Cycle Analyst - DPS

I have been trying to decide whether to convert my recumbent or road bike to an E-Bike.

I'm leaning towards converting the road bike and mounting the battery in the triangle.

The triangle on the road bike is nice and roomy and should provide a nice balanced location for the battery.

I plan to use it to commute to work (maybe 3 times per week).

The trip will be about 23 miles each way.

The whole set-up has to help haul my 195 lb carcass.

I have been riding bikes for years and have made the trip several times under my own power.

So I don't have any issues pedaling, but I have really gotten interested in the whole E-Bike thing and wouldn't mind letting the bike do some of the work.

So that is pretty much it for the set-up I am planning.

This now leads me to another general question.

I chose the 48 V 20 Amp/Hr battery.

At 23 miles each way, a couple of decent hills in between, and I will defintely do some pedalling; what do you folks think the ballpark amount of Amp Hours I'll use each way?

(I know it will be a guess, but it would be good to have a general idea of what to expect so that I'm not missing some battery problem warning sign.)

Thanks again for all the advice and input.

 

[dogman dan]

12- 15 ah if you don't pedal that hard, and ride faster than 20 mph. Riding slower, and pedaling more, you will have 40+ mile range

I ride triple digit heat all summer. The battery is fine, but don't smother the bms on it. Allow a small vent to let some cool air onto the bms. That battery will really perk up on those 100F days so they are no problem. I've also been charging my pings in hot garages for three years with no problems.

 

[dnmun]

electric bents are really nice too. faster and your feet meet the car first. always best at high speeds. jmho

charge at work too. what kinda bent? i have a SWB actionbent that i wanna convert too.

 

[pmonkey]

I got my recumbent from Boomer Bents but the bike is actually built by the Performer folks.

I have the Toscana 700 C ( 700C wheels, SRAM 9 spd and triple crank up front.)

I vacilate back and forth over which bike to convert.

I have been mainly riding the recumbent which kind of leaves the Specialized Road Bike as an extra to convert.

But I can really see the fun and advantages to converting the bent. (You really can feel the speed that close to the ground.)

The down side... (Cars already have a hard time seeing regular bikes multiply that by at least 10 for a bent.)

 

[999zip999]

Set your c.a. to 22amps. for long life, but no higher than 25amp. And your ping will love you. It can be run at higher amps. for shorter life, but more fun. I have run mine at 35a. but it takes it toll and after so time you will be replacing the #16 cell, or worst. Make sure all sense will are well connected.

 

[pmonkey]

Alright let me piece together the responses into a semi coherent list of do's & don'ts for a new Ping Battery:

> The Ping Batteries come with their BMS disconnected. Plug it in firmly (but don't pull on the wires).
> Expose the BMS so it gets out into the air to help dissipate heat.
> Charge the battery when you get it, to confirm that all the BMS Channels go into shunt. (All the LED's on the BMS should be lit.)
> As one contributor put it "...looking for all the red blinky lights" to be on after the first charge.
> But if this does not occur "Don't Panic"; it may take somewhere around 5-6 charge cycles before all the LED's stay lit at the end of a charge.
> Refrain from fully discharging the full rated capacity of the pack. (doing so will reduce the lifespan of the battery.)
> Try not to over-draw current from the pack. (doing so will reduce the lifespan of the battery / try to limit draw to 1C Rate or less)
> Maintain cell balance. Leave the battery on the charger long enough for all the LED's to light. (Charger could cycle off and on periodically during the balancing process.)
> Always keep the battery charged. (Don't let it sit for long periods without use.)
> Always start your new Ping out with very short rides and very long charge cycles. (Usually for about the first 5-10 charge cycles.)
> Make sure to use a voltmeter to confirm that the battery is fully charging.
> For the 48 Volt battery you are looking for about 60 volts fully charged. Once the surface charge is removed somewhere about 56Volts is normal for the first miles of a ride.
> Once the LED's on the BMS are all lighting up faster, without one or two lagging behind a lot, you are ready for longer rides.
> It is recommended to use the Ping Batteries with controllers that are less than 30 Amps.
> The Ping comes standard with a 2 Amp charger; even if you step up to the 5 Amp charger there do not appear to be any issues with charging.
> One thing to watch with the chargers is that they tend to be sensitive to bumps and jolts and they will go belly up.
> A sure way to watch and monitor your battery is to use a Cycle Analyst. It can be used to limit the amp draw and let you know how much power you've used.
> The Ping Battery does not seem to have much of an issue with hot ambient temperatures. But as mentioned above it's good to find a way to vent your BMS.
> Apparently cold temperatures are where you start to see a drop in performance from these batteries.
> For long battery life it has been suggested to set your Cycle Analyst to 22 Amps and no higher than 25 Amps.
> For someone my size, ~195 lbs, with a 600 Watt BMC Hub Motor and a commute of about 23 miles with some pedaling; expect ot use between 12-15 aH of power.

OK this is about where the information input ended up.
I do not doubt that I may have some of the information messed up in some areas. (So feel free to correct any errors.)
I would like to thank all the contributors: dnmun, K.E.Kopp, dogman, julesa, 999zip999, jumw1960, & 4sure.

If there is anything else that I should be watching for or forgot, please let me know.

Thanks

 

[dnmun]

nervous nelly, everybody else just goes whole hog and blows it up first thing, hehe.

it may seem odd that the leds are not all lit, but the charger turns off. that is normal, it means one of the cells has charged up to 3.9V which shuts down the charge while that cell drains the extra charge off. eventually the slowest to fill will rise in voltage and then those leds will turn on. usually, after awhile, they follow the same pattern, but eventually they all end up in the 3.7-3.8V range when it is fully charged to the 60V that ping uses. watch the pack voltage to make sure it is not over that.

 

[pmonkey]

I think it comes with past experience where I blew apart things that I thought I understood. (Scattering clutches, breaking rear ends, etc.)

Now that I'm in a field that I have limited knowledge of I'm being careful.

Besides if I fry a $700 plus battery right away I'm going to be pretty disturbed.

 

[dogman dan]

By the way, I did almost none of that with my first ping, and it still is cranking out good power 3 years and about 600 cycles later.

The first year was on a 35 amp controller, and the first ride was a really long one. The main thing I did do right, was ride so much that it was pretty much on a charger 23 hours a day. The other was that my 15 mile commute typically used 80% of the battery or less.

 

[docnjoj]

I ended up soldering the shunt on my wife's 3 year old 36 volt 10 ah V1.0 Ping when it kept cutting out. Surprize! She still gets 20+ miles on it on her heavy trike! Ping really is da man! I do use Fatpacks also for my trike but the Ping is the mainstay. I believe that the Sony cells are the way of the future though! No BMS and recover from draindown (stupid me) to 0 volts!
otherDoc