Building my new BMS.
- Thread starter Patriot
- Start date
rf said:
The VN part would be preferred if you can find it in the right voltage.
Either one will work, but the VN will allow the LVC test function to work.
Patriot
10 kW
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- Aug 7, 2008
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- 511
I am using the "VC" voltage detetcors, so I assume I shouldn't mess with trying out the LVC test?
Instead, just leave it and see if it actually works, when in use?
Anyway, here's some more progress I made today. I finally got all the parts yestruday, so nothing is holding me up to complete this project.
I have all small resistors, fairchild diodes, and a tiny C4 axial capacitor installed. If y'all see anything I screwed up, please chime in.
Instead, just leave it and see if it actually works, when in use?
Anyway, here's some more progress I made today. I finally got all the parts yestruday, so nothing is holding me up to complete this project.
I have all small resistors, fairchild diodes, and a tiny C4 axial capacitor installed. If y'all see anything I screwed up, please chime in.
j3tch1u
10 kW
i could use some help. i built my first bms (v2.2) but i haven't been able to get the orange leds to light up at all. it's short lead to square pad right?
- connect bms to batt mains without taps -> no leds
- connect bms to batt mains with taps -> no leds
- connect bms to charger only -> red led
- connect mains, taps and charger -> red led
i've also tried the single cell test with 500 ohm pot between the + tap. orange led does not come on after adj v < 2.1.
i accidentally shorted the board on some soldering wire and burned one of the traces (C1 to LED1). i patched that up and checked continuity. based on where the trace burned (red line in the pic), can anyone suggest what else i may have damaged?
- connect bms to batt mains without taps -> no leds
- connect bms to batt mains with taps -> no leds
- connect bms to charger only -> red led
- connect mains, taps and charger -> red led
i've also tried the single cell test with 500 ohm pot between the + tap. orange led does not come on after adj v < 2.1.
i accidentally shorted the board on some soldering wire and burned one of the traces (C1 to LED1). i patched that up and checked continuity. based on where the trace burned (red line in the pic), can anyone suggest what else i may have damaged?
Attachments
j3tch1u said:
Ouch!
the gate driver could possibly blow, but you can test that.
As far as the orange LEDs, try to get things working with just the charger. Don't connect the batteries until you have it working without them first.
Red LED indicates you have 12v supply and gate driver is turned on.
If your charger voltage is too low, none of the orange LEDs will light up. You might try connecting charger + to a lower cell tap and see if you get orange LEDs somewhere.
If the charger voltage is for sure high enough, try measuring voltage across an orange LED.
See if the big resistors get hot.
Try shorting the optocoupler output pins and see if the main LED switches from red to green.
This tests the gate driver chip and some of the diode logic.
On the LVC test function, don't try using it with the VC detectors. There are various ways the circuit could be reconfigured to test the LVC function. The easiest would probably be to substitue one cell with a 1.5v (alkaline) battery to trigger a low voltage condition.
j3tch1u
10 kW
fechter, thanks very much for helping out n00bs like me. i made some progress on the testing!
moved charger + wire to board2 and voila:
- board1, board2 orange leds light up!
- all resisters nice and hot
so either my cheap-o charger wasn't putting out enough juice or i have a problem on board3
short opto pins (incl optos on board3)
- leds go off in all cases
connected one a123 cell to ch1 with pot in series:
- led goes off @ around 1.5v
is that normal?
moved charger + wire to board2 and voila:
- board1, board2 orange leds light up!
- all resisters nice and hot
so either my cheap-o charger wasn't putting out enough juice or i have a problem on board3
short opto pins (incl optos on board3)
- leds go off in all cases
connected one a123 cell to ch1 with pot in series:
- led goes off @ around 1.5v
is that normal?
j3tch1u said:
Not sure about that. Which LED?
On the boards that are working, you can try measuring the voltage across each cell connection (no batteries connected) when the orange LEDs are lit. If the circuit is throttling, it will normally give a reading that is a bit higher than the actual set point (3.68v). All cells should read about the same.
Another test you can do at this point is to jumper the 'all shunts' line to the ground bus and see if you can trip the automatic shutoff. The main LED should go green and all the orange ones should go out. It should latch and stay that way until you remove the charger input.
On the board that's not working, try measuring across the cell connections with the charger attached. If the voltage is substantially higher than 3.68v on any cell, it would indicate the shunt is not turning on when it is supposed to (Q101 or U102 bad?). If voltage is not present on any of the cells, then the charge control circuit is not passing juice.
j3tch1u
10 kW
fechter said:
the first orange led ch1.
i attached my 36V cheap-o charger to the 3rd board. no orange leds, but here are the voltage readings across the channels:
ch v diff
1 3.63
2 6.14 2.51
3 9.21 3.07
4 12.28 3.07
5 15.95 3.67
6 19.60 3.65
7 23.60 4.00
8 27.30 3.70
9 31.00 3.70
10 34.50 3.50
11 38.00 3.50
12 41.60 3.60
next i attached the charger to second board. all 8 orange leds lit up. here are the readings:
ch v diff
1 2.50
2 4.90 2.40
3 7.30 2.40
4 9.70 2.40
5 13.60 3.90
6 17.70 4.10
7 21.90 4.20
8 26.10 4.20
not sure what to make of this. jumper across all shunts correctly trips the auto shutoff. i have another charger (QQE360 4CH41) i could try but i'm not sure how to trip the start-up control without connecting batts.
Hmm... 41.6v is not quite enough to light up the LEDs on a 12 cell board. You need something like 45v. You might try connecting the charger positive to cell #10 and see what happens.
Hi Icewrench,
I am also a newbe to the circuit board and so far I have been able to mount the resistors , caps and leds.
I'm a little confused by the labeling convention in the tppacks instructions.The parts list shows Ux03 (ILD2 dual optocoupler). Is that the same as U103 in the component schematic? The schematic shows a square notch oriented to the right. Is the square notch the same as the small semicircle notch I see on the ILD2 optocoupler for orientation purposes?
I mounted the leds with the short lead in the square holes- is that the proper orientation? I hope to replace the 8 cell BMS that came with my 10AH 24v ducttape pack v1 from PING. Will this BMS work with the PING pack? Thanks for bearing with me and my questions.
I am also a newbe to the circuit board and so far I have been able to mount the resistors , caps and leds.
I'm a little confused by the labeling convention in the tppacks instructions.The parts list shows Ux03 (ILD2 dual optocoupler). Is that the same as U103 in the component schematic? The schematic shows a square notch oriented to the right. Is the square notch the same as the small semicircle notch I see on the ILD2 optocoupler for orientation purposes?
I mounted the leds with the short lead in the square holes- is that the proper orientation? I hope to replace the 8 cell BMS that came with my 10AH 24v ducttape pack v1 from PING. Will this BMS work with the PING pack? Thanks for bearing with me and my questions.
Icewrench
10 kW
Check page 45 on the even newer thread [ might be posted earlier in this thread also ] for a real good picture that MR F put up. It`s a real nice top side layout with parts labeled. 
There is also a link to the instructions a little farther down. When unpacking the Mouser box I took the time to label each parts bag with the
board part numbers. The List uses xo1 etc the pic uses 101... 102..So X = 1
On led 101 the short leg is called cathode or neg in the Mouser catalog that they were nice enough to send, and yes to the square hole.
Yes to the notches / semi circles. Will it work on a ping I don`t know but sure why not try it out... Good Luck
There is also a link to the instructions a little farther down. When unpacking the Mouser box I took the time to label each parts bag with the
board part numbers. The List uses xo1 etc the pic uses 101... 102..So X = 1
On led 101 the short leg is called cathode or neg in the Mouser catalog that they were nice enough to send, and yes to the square hole.
Yes to the notches / semi circles. Will it work on a ping I don`t know but sure why not try it out... Good Luck
j3tch1u
10 kW
fechter said:
i think you hit the nail on the head:
charger + on cell 10: leds lit
charger + on cell 11: led 11 flickers
my charger output is 41.9v. so i'll assume the charging control circuit is working. at this point would it be safe to connect batts only and test if the lvc triggers under load?
Hi Icewrench,
Thanks for your timely response. I am now making steady progress on the v2.3 board. How far are you along with the board? Which version do you have? Hopefully we can together resolve any issues that come up in our progress.
In fact, I already encountered an issue with the c101 caps. The v2.3 parts list lists cx01 10 uF 50 V electrolytic cap (black)
whereas the Photo in the instructions show gold colored caps (appearantly 10uF 50V Audio caps not listed in the parts lists but included in the shipment along with the black. They must appearantly be interchangeable?? Did you opt for the gold audio caps or the black caps?
The instructions did not elaborate on this.
Also, the U102 part is listed in the instruction parts list as LM431 regulater .My shipment did not contain any parts labled LM431 but I do have regulaters labled FAN431LZXA in my shipment. Can you confirm they're the same?
Also, the q101 KSA931 orientation is not clear in the provided schematic. The schematic shows a different outline form for this part. I strongly suspect the KSA931 part should be oriented with the flat side on the right.
Thanx
Chessir
Thanks for your timely response. I am now making steady progress on the v2.3 board. How far are you along with the board? Which version do you have? Hopefully we can together resolve any issues that come up in our progress.
In fact, I already encountered an issue with the c101 caps. The v2.3 parts list lists cx01 10 uF 50 V electrolytic cap (black)
whereas the Photo in the instructions show gold colored caps (appearantly 10uF 50V Audio caps not listed in the parts lists but included in the shipment along with the black. They must appearantly be interchangeable?? Did you opt for the gold audio caps or the black caps?
The instructions did not elaborate on this.
Also, the U102 part is listed in the instruction parts list as LM431 regulater .My shipment did not contain any parts labled LM431 but I do have regulaters labled FAN431LZXA in my shipment. Can you confirm they're the same?
Also, the q101 KSA931 orientation is not clear in the provided schematic. The schematic shows a different outline form for this part. I strongly suspect the KSA931 part should be oriented with the flat side on the right.
Thanx
Chessir
Patriot
10 kW
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I now have all the transistors, and voltage detectors installed.
OK,
I have three components I need to figure out how they get situated on the board.
1. The three pronged Bi-colored LED. One point is G, the other R. Which is which?
2. The 16-channel LED's. I just want to make sure they go the right way. On whole is square, the other round.
3. The C4 capacitor. It says axial, so I assume they are bi-directional, and that it doesn't matter which way they are installed?
OK,
I have three components I need to figure out how they get situated on the board.
1. The three pronged Bi-colored LED. One point is G, the other R. Which is which?
2. The 16-channel LED's. I just want to make sure they go the right way. On whole is square, the other round.
3. The C4 capacitor. It says axial, so I assume they are bi-directional, and that it doesn't matter which way they are installed?
Hi Patriot
1. The three pronged Bi-colored LED. One point is G, the other R. Which is which?
The short lead in the square hole-the rest fall in place
2. The 16-channel LED's. I just want to make sure they go the right way. On whole is square, the other round.
The short lead in square hole
3. Main channel Capacitors. I assume they are bi-directional, and that it doesn't matter?
The short lead in square hole
1. The three pronged Bi-colored LED. One point is G, the other R. Which is which?
The short lead in the square hole-the rest fall in place
2. The 16-channel LED's. I just want to make sure they go the right way. On whole is square, the other round.
The short lead in square hole
3. Main channel Capacitors. I assume they are bi-directional, and that it doesn't matter?
The short lead in square hole
GGoodrum
1 MW
To answer your questions:
1. The red-green LED has two leads in a row, and a middle one that is angled so that the three leads make a triangular pattern. Looking from the bottom, the lead on the left is the red anode, the lead on the right is green anode, and the angled lead at the top of the triangle is the common cathode. The board is marked with a "G" on the left, and an "R" on the right.
2. If you look carefully at the LED, there is a "flat" side next to one lead. This is the cathode and it goes in the square hole. the flat part should be facing away from the shunt resistors.
3. The electrolytic caps (C1, C2 and Cx01...) are polarized, so the + side goes to the square hole. C3 is not polarized.
-- Gary
1. The red-green LED has two leads in a row, and a middle one that is angled so that the three leads make a triangular pattern. Looking from the bottom, the lead on the left is the red anode, the lead on the right is green anode, and the angled lead at the top of the triangle is the common cathode. The board is marked with a "G" on the left, and an "R" on the right.
2. If you look carefully at the LED, there is a "flat" side next to one lead. This is the cathode and it goes in the square hole. the flat part should be facing away from the shunt resistors.
3. The electrolytic caps (C1, C2 and Cx01...) are polarized, so the + side goes to the square hole. C3 is not polarized.
-- Gary
GGoodrum
1 MW
chessir said:
Either one will work fine. I have both versions as well, due to ordering at different times.
Looking good!
Be sure to hold it up to a light and examine the bottom side for accidental bridges, especially around the diodes.
Be sure to hold it up to a light and examine the bottom side for accidental bridges, especially around the diodes.
Patriot
10 kW
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chessir said:
The short lead does not go into the square hole. It ends up being turned 120deg counter-clockwise. According to GGoodrum, the two bottom leads G & R, are the two matching leads. The third angled lead goes on top.
I installed it with the small flat side facing to the right, which is parallel to the 820ohm resistor just above C3.
Patriot
10 kW
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Ok, the channel LED's are baffling me. They do not have a flat side, as per the drawing.
However, this is what I have done. I took my multi-meter, and set it to 200ohm. I then touched the black probe to the short LED lead, and the red probe to the long LED lead.
It made the LED light up faint orange (very faint). So, my guess is that the short leads are GND, and the long lead POS.
According to this, which hole would the GND lead go into?
However, this is what I have done. I took my multi-meter, and set it to 200ohm. I then touched the black probe to the short LED lead, and the red probe to the long LED lead.
It made the LED light up faint orange (very faint). So, my guess is that the short leads are GND, and the long lead POS.
According to this, which hole would the GND lead go into?
For LED's the cathode/- pin is almost always the part of the the lead frame that holds the LED chip. When you look inside the LED from the side, it is usually the larger "cupped" part of the lead with the tiny chip sitting inside this cup.
The anode/+ side is the lead that has a tiny bond wire attached to this lead and going to the top of the LED chip.
The anode/+ side is the lead that has a tiny bond wire attached to this lead and going to the top of the LED chip.
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