California: AB-1096 to classify an "electric bicycle"

Absolutely, any bike with the power to throw rocks farther than an athletic young rider needs to stay off the trails. The great thing about MTB's is they really do very little damage to the trail, and actually improve trail durability by keeping it packed tighter than foot traffic.

Horses, they churn up a trail worse than anything on earth. They need separate trails from bikes really. Or, maybe they need a bike day once a week so the trail can get re compacted. 8)

But this idea that throttle equals rooster tail is just ignorant predjudice. You can easily make a "20 mph pedal assist" bike that throws rocks and dirt 20 feet. 3000w muxus, slow winding, and pas. One crank of the pedal and wham, rocks fly, and some guy loses his shoe.

But that once again, brings us back to the damn watt limit thing, which simply cannot be enforced. So what to do to make a better law beats me. I just completely fail to understand the need for 3 classes. Class one and two should be the same.

Honestly, I think for real mtb singletracks, the ones lovingly crafted and maintained by the clubs, a 20 mph speed limit makes sense. Few if any bikes that only go 20 mph are powerful enough to throw rocks. But limiting it to people still able to pedal even lightly the entire ride is just discriminatory against those with health or handicap limitations.

Happily, it's highly unlikely that the local community will kick you off the trails once you explain your limitations. I'm 100% sure other riders won't care if you use a throttle. This is what happened to me. I'd ride the local blm, now national monument trails with my motor. At rest stops, chatting with the locals I'd explain my illness which made it impossible for me to pedal a regular bike uphill. Absolutely nobody in 5 years has told me to get off the trail. What concerns me is ranger rick, once the national park service actually takes over the new monument they created where the trails are. Riders won't give a shit, but national park chotas will.
 
If they want to be gentle on the trails there are ways to do that:

1) limit tire pressure - this is the most effective - low tire pressure spreads out the force, rather than digging in. Requiring fat tires magnifies this effect. So requiring 3" or wider tires under 15 psi would really improve the trails.

2) limit max power - it takes power to make damage. Wheel torque would be a more precise way to limit tearing of the soil.

3) limit the acceleration, or onset of throttle

4) limit hard braking

it has nothing to do with throttle vs pedal assist, actually pedal strokes are more peaky and destructive than smooth throttle, a proper electric with throttle will be less damaging than a pedal torque amplifying drive system.
 
This is scary, very unlikely, but possible in crazy CA since it happened here with ICE dirt bikes; that is having certain e-bikes certified and provided with stickers that allow them on trails. The manufacturers would need to pay to have their models tested. Probably would almost eliminate DIY systems.
 
Exactly,

I think you meant to say in point # 1` 2 inch or wider tires, 3 inch tires are only on plus and fat bikes, most mountain bike frames not have enough room for 3 inch.
2 inch to 2.5 are the norm for standard mountain bikes ( 90 % + of mountain bikes sold )


I have a powerful Mac hub motor, and it is so slow to take off / gain speed ( it is a 6t ) that any
steep road I go up I have to drop down to the smallest chainring up front and use the 30 or 32 tooth cog on the back
in order to not bog down the motor, giving it more than half throttle does nothing when going up hills , I have to really
peddle , meaning I really have to help the motor, and that is even with a throttle system.

There is no way my hub motor/rear wheel would tear up any trail ! this is something the e-bike haters just do not know ... yet .

I did go up one dirt trail that allowed bikes, and it was the same as going up a steep road, it would only go slow, I
had to use 1/2 or less throttle, and spin the cranks, Meaning Small chainring/gear up front and large 30-32 cog in the back really helping the motor.

Besides even if someone has a very powerful electric motor, all you have to do is limit the current , I do that anyway in order to give myself better range on a battery charge.

It is time to amend the current law just passed to allow higher wattage motors !




Alan B said:
If they want to be gentle on the trails there are ways to do that:

1) limit tire pressure - this is the most effective - low tire pressure spreads out the force, rather than digging in. Requiring fat tires magnifies this effect. So requiring 3" or wider tires under 15 psi would really improve the trails.

2) limit max power - it takes power to make damage. Wheel torque would be a more precise way to limit tearing of the soil.

3) limit the acceleration, or onset of throttle

4) limit hard braking

it has nothing to do with throttle vs pedal assist, actually pedal strokes are more peaky and destructive than smooth throttle, a proper electric with throttle will be less damaging than a pedal torque amplifying drive system.
Click to expand...
 
I ride my eBike on Santa Monica Mtns Conservancy and NPS land sandwiched between the SFV, Westside and the ocean. Most of the access is by fire road, but there are miles of singletrack such as Backbone Trail in the area. All of it is posted as multi-use: hikers, bikers and horses with a "no motorized vehicles" sign at every entrance. Two weekends ago I stopped and asked the NPS Rangers if my eBike was legal and was told: "Class 1? You're legal, go have fun!" A bit later at the Hub, I spoke with the local MTB trail volunteers in their yellow jerseys and they concurred: Class 1 is legal on all trails.

Now, my ebike was a single speed fat bike running 4.25" tires at 12.5psi with a BBSHD and full triangle battery. I have a throttle, but I never use it on fire roads, which are 95% of my mileage, instead I have learned to just get good at using the PAS. The throttle is there, but it could be replaced by a Turbo button for most usage.

Since then I have riding several times a week and on Sat and Sun. The lycras hate getting passed on the hills, but most of them just give dirty looks..... When people say I am "cheating" I just reply that I get plenty of exercise on my daily 4 mile walk and that I am here for access to our public parklands and not to lower my resting heart rate or BMI........
 
Lowering tire pressure is a good way to get a flat don,t do it you will end up walking out what you need to learn is too not skid your back tire , Mt bikers are taught to ride with out locking up and skidding the back tire . The horse ppl are the worst when it comes to trails they must not be allowed on MT bike trails let them build and pay for ther own trails .The 5000w bikes are hurting the E bike movement they are just what the powers to be are afraid of and have in mind when passing anti e bike laws.
 
Not hard to diy a class one bike. The best thing about the law is the elimination of the impossible to enforce watt limits. Speed limit can be enforced.

I agree, a mac in 6t winding will suck so bad on the steep hills typical with singletrack, that it could not damage the trails. If you gave it enough power to throw rocks, it would tend to overheat fast and likely not be on those trails for long enough to do much damage. If you want a nice trail ride, try a 10t motor. That winding does pretty good on trails, and running one 36v would classify class one or two.

Definitely, we need to keep 3000-10000w homebuilt e bikes off the single track trails. Those are just motorcycles with pedals. Ride them where dirt motorcycles are allowed.
 
Given that there is still a Federal 750w limit in force, is there a legal Mid-drive for sale in the USA? One seller says on their website that the BBSHD is a 1000w drive that is only listed as a 750 to evade the law. The BBS02 is supposed to be 750w, if you use 36v?, As of today there is NO LEGAL mid drive sold. If one wanted to go into business building CA and Federally legal electric ebikes it would not be possible: there are no 750w drives for sale in the U.S, even at 36v (36x25=800). Simply ignoring the law or putting false markings on products is a shortcut to disaster for a new industry trying to legitimize itself.

Do folks honestly think that our opponents in the Lycra/MTB community do not read these forums, do people really think that once they make the relevant agencies aware of the industry wide deception as far as power levels they will turn a blind eye? And what will happen when a child dies in a crash of an illegal drive, will the attorneys decide to ignore the culpability of the company that sold the drive because they are such nice guys? I love eBikes, but some people are living in Dreamland.......
 
The new California law specifically says maximum of 750W, (which is a downgrade from the previous 1000W). It does not seem to specify, but in general that has been interpreted to be at the wheels (eg brake horsepower as frequently used in the DMV code). Motor power ratings are very slippery, the real power depends on what the electronic controls regulate to. With appropriate programming a 1500W or even a 3000W motor can be controlled to deliver legal power to the wheel (at higher efficiency and lower temperatures). It is also not stated if this is peak or average power, we have seen that most 250W motors accelerate at 2 or even 3 times that power, it is not until they are at nominal load and speed that they settle down to their rated power. This is a common characteristic of electric motors. During this acceleration the power delivered to the wheel (torque times speed) is much lower than the motor's input power.

So if we combine this and factor in drivetrain and motor efficiency, the input power to a legal system delivering 750W to the wheels is closer to 1000W steady state (depending on drivetrain efficiency), and during acceleration may reach 2+kW for a brief period.
 
I think that legislators, lawyers, jurors and the media will probably take the easiest path towards power levels: the one they were taught in school. Watts=Volts x Amps. Any motor with a 20a controller and a 48v battery will be considered a 960w motor. This will make monitoring power levels in the field relatively easy, just stamp each motor with an amperage rating as set by the manufacturer. Then all the LEO needs to do is carry a voltmeter to check the battery and know how to multiply.

If the user chooses to reprogram their drive to a higher amp setting that is a separate issue that can be dealt with on an individual basis, just like defeating auto emission systems. It should go without saying that changing the amperage rating of a drive after purchase would void the warranty as well as any liability claim against the seller. The vast majority of eBike users will never buy a programming cable and 99.9% of bikes will stay legal.

I understand the point you are making, but I think it will be lost amid all the noise.......
 
A cop doesn't know or care if its 750w or 1000w all he will care about is elec bikes are legal or not in his eyes , it will be up to you and your lawyer to make your argument with the courts . The mere fact that the laws sets limits on power for E bikes on trails and bike paths is a big win for the e bike community
 
I agree that a 750w power limit is a big win! No one wanted a 250/350 EU style limit in the USA......... Now the Chinese factories need to find a way to comply with the limit too. AFAIK there is no mid-drive sold except the Bosch that is CA legal. All a Ranger/Cop needs to do is see the black can in front of the pedals to know it is illegal, it's not rocket science. It takes just one lycra, pissed off about being passed on a hill, to have a chat with the Rangers and ruin it for everyone......

On the other hand, starting on Jan1 2016 there is an enormous market opening up in CA with no one to serve it. Seems to me that being able to advertise "California eBike Legal" would be a big plus when selling to individuals or an LBS that wanted to offer their own eBikes. Simply offer two levels of motor: CA legal and an Unlimited class for use off of bike paths or in unregulated areas.
 
A mid drive is difficult to make legal anyway, since the mid drive itself doesn't know the bicycle's overall speed to limit it to 20 or 28 mph. The only way this can be accomplished is with a controller that has access to the wheel RPM. Again, it is the programming in the controller that makes the system legal, like the Bosch, Yamaha and so on. They certify the whole system, not just the drive. The individual part ratings are not the issue.

Battery voltage and current do not equal motor power. Motor power is not a single number.

These things are never simple, and if they go to court they will bring in the various experts to clarify it if necessary, but they don't ever seem to go there. The Euro 250W motors hit more than 250W when accelerating, no one is surprised or concerned. The rating is steady state. They go by the sticker on the system.

To strictly and provably be legal will likely require buying a commercial system. Anything DIY will be very difficult. In some places DIY has been essentially made illegal. Hopefully that won't happen here. The law does contain a power level, but the real observable is the speed. That's what the police will focus on. Something they can observe and measure. The power level is something for the manufacturers to worry about. The police will want to see that class sticker, and they will observe the speeds.

The question is, how and where do DIY folks get the stickers? Is there a process? If a DIY bike doesn't have a sticker, what does that mean? The bill states that the "manufacturer or distributor" would have to certify the bike's class and affix a sticker. So bikes made before the law will not have stickers. Bikes made after January 1, 2017 will be stickered. "The label shall contain the classification number, top assisted speed, and motor wattage of the electric bicycle..."

Also, "A person shall not tamper with or modify an electric bicycle described in subdivision (a) of Section 312.5 so as to change the speed capability of the bicycle, unless he or she appropriately replaces the label indicating the classification..."

So this clearly indicates that the user can self certify and label their modified bike. I would prepare a document containing the calculations and settings to show how the system complies with the law, if ever required to do so. This would include programming values, etc. as needed.

If you plan to become a manufacturer or dealer, you will need to hire the appropriate legal and engineering experts to sort it out and appropriately make your product comply.

If you are doing your own ebike you will have to decide how to proceed to certify your own system. You can buy certified components, for example a controller pre-programmed by the manufacturer or dealer to 750W. Or do it yourself, but in either case you must self certify and and apply the appropriate sticker to the bike. The max rating of the controller is not what matters. Electronics needs a safety margin to be reliable, the performance of the controller is determined by the programming. That is just fact. The higher end controllers have settings for peak and continuous power, and they actually measure motor current and motor power, not just battery values. They have a lot better control, as well as higher reliability and tend to be safer with smooth acceleration.
 
We are talking about two different situations: you are speaking about eBikes on pavement dealing with police with a lot better things to do. I am talking about park rangers and riding on dirt roads and singletrack and dealing with enraged activist lycras. If I ride there I had better be squeaky clean...... Strict Class 1 only, at least until I am not the only eBiker up there and the lycras and the rangers are overwhelmed by sheer numbers!

As far as being legal, AFAIK, both Bafang drives use a wheel speed sensor in conjunction with a pedal rotation sensor and they are getting pretty popular. Either of those could limit power and/or speed in the programming.
 
Almost any law is better than the expressly illegal status that ebikes have in NY right now.
.
Speed limits on bike paths are obviously a better answer than power limits on all ebikes. A cargo bike needs power to get where it's going. Just enforce a 20 mph speed limit wherever mixed use conflicts can arise.
 
Duh,, some how I overlooked that the new CA law does include the 750w limit. So most of your typical DIY kits running 48v will be illegal, if watts is judged to be the max possible power drawn from the battery.

However,,,, the bill says A 750w motor. NOT a 750w controller. So lots of stuff is still legal. Take a typical cheap ass "48v1000w" kit. It has a motor rated 500w. Similarly, popular gear motors such as a Mac are rated 500w. I'm not sure what the motor rating is for a BBs02 is, but I'm betting it's 500w to 750w. If the controllers amps x battery volts does not limit speed to the right number, then any kit could still be illegal. It might require dialing in a typical Bafang mid drives battery voltage to make it legal, since speed limiting is not part of the controller.

Nothing in the law seems to prohibit running it at higher peak watts than 750w. However.... if the thing is speed limited to 20 mph, then about the max watts it can be is 750w when cruising full speed. Similarly, the 27 mph bike will be limited to about 1000w at full cruise speed. More might be there if needed for a hill, but if speed limiters kick in, then the watts won't be that high cruising full speed.

This is a good way to do watt limits. Just limit the motor watts, and use a speed limit. Then a heavy cargo bike can be legal and still pull 2000w up a hill. It just can't be a muxus motor rated 3000w. Nor can it be a 40 mph bike, and be legal on the street.

One good way to be legal and still have lots of power is simply choosing the right winding hub motor to match the speed you want. I pushed for Jason to sell a kit aimed for the cargo bike owners. Using a 6x9 winding motor and 48v, the result is a 20 mph bike with 1000w of input power. It will be class 2 legal in CA, without limiting the battery voltage to 36v.
 
sendler2112 said:
Forget power ratings all together and just enforce speed limits.
Click to expand...
Iowa changed its moped law to limit speed only (30 MPH). My guess is they figured out that its too difficult to police a power number. It could also be that they foresaw the complete futility of policing power limits on the coming hordes of electric mopeds.
 
sendler2112 said:
Forget power ratings all together and just enforce speed limits.
Click to expand...


That would be nice, but would require a change in a Federal law/regulation......... How likely is that in this current political environment? As long as eBikes are limited to 750w by Washington, most states will follow their regulation when writing their own laws as California just did. They made a lot of changes, but kept the 750w limit in place.

It is one thing to have a Wild West/anything goes attitude towards the rules and regulations when one is an experimenter/DIY sort of person, for them "flying under the radar" is a valid option. But most people who will buy an eBike in the future would IMHO, prefer to be legal under whatever laws apply in their area. And 100% legality is mandatory if one is to try and make a business of eBikes: the long term risks of selling illegal products will make financing/venture capital and liability insurance impossible to obtain. And who would invest in a business that can't be insured?

There will soon be millions of eBikes on American streets and they won't be imported in those numbers by Mom and Pop storefront shops. Only a nationwide distributor capitalized in the $millions will be able to meet the demand and supply legal bikes with valid certifications in the numbers needed over the many years to come. The only way that will happen is to be 100% legal....... Or make a deal with Bosch or Currie for them to do it for you.

Could it be time for this industry (that's what is it now), to start to grow up?
 
WoodlandHills,

A 750 watt motor limit is Problematic in more than one way.

First you , and anyone who writes laws, must understand that when it comes to electric bicycles, there are ... Two different environments in which to ride your/anyone's electric bicycle.


There are the off road trails , in particular what is referred to as Single Track . On Single track and anywhere that there are also Hikers, and/or Equestrians , a 750 watt limit could be applicable.
Although ... Many people do not know that even a 1,500 watt motor , if it is a slow wind motor , meaning low torque motor, will not tear up any trails, in fact it will have much less impact
than an Equestrian and a hiker ...on hard pack dirt . and much less impact on any surface than an Equestrian !
Now for the safety of other trail users there should be a speed limit. that is just common sense.


For riding on the road there is a definite need for higher power motors. For Many reasons .
Here in the San Francisco Bay Area the morning Commute is 4.5 to 5 hours , then in the afternoon/evening up to 4.5 to 5 hours that is 8 to 10 hours a day.
if you are a lucky commuter , meaning a short to medium distance commuter , you are sitting in traffic for 2 to 3 hours each way, that is 4 to 6 hours total each day for each driver , think of all the pollution !

Every one agrees that we , All , need to have more people commute in different ways, public buses just do not work logistically for most people.

The answer is bicycles . Now to get people to commute by bicycle there , Must be higher power motors and speeds available, or, people will just keep using the Car ! ! !

Also Anyone riding a bicycle or motorcycle knows that there are times, that for the sake safety , for everyone , that you need to speed up in order to enter and merge Safely, on to a roadway.

Then there is the Fact that the writers of these laws have not yet thought about ... the Fact that there is going to be a not to distant , Future where there are going to be what I ,and others, call Personal Transport Vehicles.
These Personal Transport Vehicles will have many of the parts of an electric bicycle albeit stronger frames with 2.5 to 3 inch road tires . these Personal Transport Vehicles will and , MUST , be able to sustain 45 mph speeds
in other words , to be able to keep up with traffic on expressways. and commute roadways, as well as to be able to obtain a speed good enough to enter and merge with the existing traffic .
These Personal Transport Vehicles , and even commuter bicycles will only come about when we have higher wattage limits on the motors !
People just will not buy them if they cannot get to work on time and/ or go fast enough to be safe in traffic .

When laws allow for higher wattage motors then we , ALL , will benefit .
 
There are 300 million Americans at last count and I doubt that even .001% of them will ever commute by two wheeler: bicycle, eBike or motorbike. Bicycles are now and will forever remain a recreational vehicle for nearly all Americans, one can bemoan that, and I agree with most of what you say, but "It is what it is"........

Laws are written to serve the needs of powerful minorities or to placate the masses, eBikes are NOT a powerful minority, thus the only route for change is through mass acceptance which brings mass pressure. And the only way to get that critical mass is to sell EBikes that meet all state and federal rules and regulations in Walmar, Target, the local hardware store, etc.
 
The power rating language is aimed at manufacturers which can get their products certified to be one class or another. No cop is going to carry a Fluke meter or know how to use one.

You can get your stickers here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=35048&hilit=200w+sticker

Enforcing the speed limit is much more practical for law enforcement people.
It's the arrogant lycra guys that I see speeding on the trails around here, not ebikes.
 
Here"s our new e-bike law, through google-translator.

[pre]1. But pedestrians supporting or replacing mobility equipment

This class includes power walking slowly passing facilitate or replace the aids.

Limitations: The engine must not exceed power of 1kW (1000w) and the top speed of the device up to 15 km / h
-the Applicable regulations: Applicable pedestrian traffic rules, if they are carried on walking speed. If the speed is greater than walking speed, the traffic rules applicable to cyclists

2.Kevyt two-wheeled motor-driven vehicle / with motor bike (L1e-A)

This category includes nowadays mm. electric wheels and electrically-assisted bicycles. These devices do not require approval, and hence does not include. insurance, registration or license.
Limitations: The engine must not exceed power of 1kW (1000w) and the top speed of the device up to 25km / h
-the Applicable regulations: The requirements of motorized vehicle.

3.Polkupyörä

This category includes ordinary bicycles, as well as electrically-assisted bicycles with a maximum power of 250w, and a top speed of 25km / h. These electrically-assisted bicycles can be classified also cycles fitted with an engine category

-the Applicable provisions of the provisions of Cycling

4.Kevyt electric vehicle

This category includes other kevet electric vehicles such as the Segway -type balance of instruments, the balance of scooters, scooters for senior citizens, etc.

-the Applicable provisions: This class of vehicles shall apply to the cyclist's traffic rules. However, the light electric vehicle may also use the sidewalk walking speed.

The Board's proposal of vehicle, road and amend the Criminal Code
Transport and communications of the Agency's opinion on the draft amendment of the vehicle and the Road Traffic Act:
Summary of the processing of a law

In our view, these legislative changes will come into force on 1.1.2016[/pre]
 
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