Can we build a better KTM Freeride E?

[amund7]

I really really really want a KTM Freeride E. But then I read about it. And what I read, altough inconsistent, tells me that I could do a better job (or maybe rather, I want a different bias).

What I read, and don't like is
- it can only run between 20 minutes and 1 hour
- top speed is 70 kph
- weight 110 kg

What I want
- similar power output, but only for a short time
- on-road cruising usability, meaning usable road range and speed (80-90-100 kph)
- lighter than the KTM, if possible
- proper dirtbike brakes, suspension and handling, but 2017 cutting-edge is not required


I think a lot of this can be solved by
1. Ditching the water cooling. I've seen in the reviews that the KTM water pump runs constantly while the iginition is on. What a waste (but maybe neglible?) I see the need for motocross track driving, but I won't be doing that, not for extended periods.
2. Ditching the gearbox, I have a feeling it must eat a lot of efficiency, and with the right motor/sprockets. I may still be wrong, the Tesla also has a gearbox and it's still efficient.
(3. rubber or carbon belt maybe? that chain noise is not sexy)

So my thinking is to get a weathered dirt bike with plates and lights, spend a reasonable amount of money on motor, controller and batteries (leaf?), and end up with an awesome DIY project that can do as good a job (or better?) as a KTM Freeride E, for less money.


What are your thoughts? Is this doable? Does such a motor exist? Will a 16kw (peak) air cooled motor fry eggs within seconds, or could you get 10-15 minutes of dirtbike fun before the controller has to start retarding the power?

Or should I just bite the bullet and buy a used KTM?

 

[evrob]

electric motion escape maybe with smaller mirrors

speed might be a problem

 

[Rube]

Hi, Sketchism on here has killer motorcycle build on the Endless Sphere Facebook page. That build might provide some inspiration as it promises to be significantly more capable than a Freeride-E with over double the power.

The LMX and soon Neematic products directly compete with the Freeride. While the LMX has less power keep in mind that massive weight reduction enables DH quality bicycle components to be as or more effective than heavier MC suspension. Alta is another company to watch.

The build quality of the Freeride power-train fantastic but in my opinion the weight is compromised. I'm no expert but have a good look around because this is an exciting time for motorcycle alternatives, especially light weight alternatives.

Others will know more but these suggestions might give you some ideas of what's on the market. If you want to build your own there are a lot of electric motorcycle build communities.

 

[bionicon]

I am busy with a ligth motorcycle project. A senda aluframe with the hacker Q150 motor and controller, and a 5kw lipo batterypack all together for about 85 kg

 

[bzhwindtalker]

Hi, Our goal so far with the LMX (esp the new 161) is not to compete directly with the freeride but to propose a bike with similar battery capacity and reliability at 1/3 -1/2 the weight. The KTM uses 2.59kwh battery with very good thermal dissipation setup, that is very needed when they do 8-10c peak power on their pack. The pack size makes sense for MX competitions even if the full to empty record is around 17 minutes from what I heard.

The offroad only version of our 161 with front and back motorcycle rims and tires comes in at 40kg, with 1.8kwh of battery, Linkage suspension... 35kg is possible with bike tires and an air shock.
I think over 45 kg is really pushing the limits for DH components in real offroad situations. Our complete frame weight is 6.5kg


Some vid from last year showing a Lmx on track with some KTM Freerides.
[youtube]ov8b8BkuDGM[/youtube]

I cant wait to test our new improved motors and pit them against the KTs. They should handle 10 kw brusts and allow us to have good low end torque with 70kph top speed in 16S.

 

[amund7]

The offroad only version of our 161 with front and back motorcycle rims and tires comes in at 40kg
...
I cant wait to test our new improved motors and pit them against the KTs. They should handle 10 kw brusts and allow us to have good low end torque with 70kph top speed in 16S.

All this is super awesome, but I guess it will never be street legal in Europe? Which is one of my requirements unfortunately...

 

[bzhwindtalker]

We are working on it, as a L1e-B moped with limited top speed. Hopefully we can deliver the first road legal 161s before the end of 2017.

I think we will see a revolution in the offroad/dual sport world in the coming years with a lot of cool products. I hope manufacturers follow with more in between components like forks and brakes specifically made for 40kg bikes.

Adam

 

[bionicon]

Maybe this russian bike.....if they want to legalise it for europe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9emQZTu0X4

 

[bionicon]

Or maybe this one ?
http://www.eastgem.net/junior.html

 

[amund7]

Very interesting posts here! That last one looks amazing. The russian one I've seen before, looks amazing but probably too expensive and/or too race biased for my (current) needs and buget.

I will watch LMX for sure. A street legal one would be awesome!


Today I was at a big motorbike convention, and I looked closer at the Zero FX. Turns out, it's air cooled, has better range than the KTM. I used to think that the FX was not serious enough for offroad for my needs. But it looks like I was wrong:

https://youtu.be/qVSZdMppZFw?t=1m

 

[Xtr6]

I have a Quantya evo1 that is street legal, I love to ride it. In the pas I build a Raptor 165 but this machine is much more build to ride the real stuff.
I ride it on the track and on the road, and it run's verry decent. The main thing is that it is streetlegal. The raptor was more of a MTB, and the Quantya is a motorcycle.