Can you advise a clueless newbie please

[gardener]

Hi again,

Meanwhile, I accept everthing you say about 36v NiMh being a better option and I will make enquiries about the cost of these and charger. If I can afford it I will buy these and keep the (hopefully) replaced 24 Li-ion as
a get me home spare (which was the topic of my intial posting).

I will keep you updated. Cheers, Richard.

Richard

Before you buy a 36V you must ensure that the internal controller is exactly the same as mine and that the components can take it. I didn't run mine at 36V until I checked it out. You don't want to blow the controller up! It almost certainly is the same but you must make sure.

If you can persuade EBS get a Nimh battery from them as a replacement. You may even have a case to return the whole kit for a refund. Stand your ground. Hopefully you paid by credit card in which case you have some consumer protection there.

Paul

 

[gardener]

Hello Twfordbridge!

Dont worry!! your controller can be replaced very cheaply for a better one should it go wrong and your motor would most likely take 600W without overheating, there is no difference 250-350W, those little motors can take a lot more.
Cheers

Knoxie

Hello Knoxie

What controller would you have in mind? And where to buy? Do you think a crystalyte one would work?

Paul

 

[xyster]

Hi again,

I must make this quick as the washing up is still on the side and my wifes due home from work in 15 mins...... much more scary that an electric bike problem !

...

Thanks again guys, I'm off to get my rubber gloves to tackle that washing up (4 mins till she gets home now)

I will keep you updated. Cheers, Richard.

Let us know how the chores/wife situation worked out. Do you need help? Maybe one of us nearby can bike over and delay the wife-unit by asking for directions, "accidentally" wrecking in front of her car, posing as an elderly person in need of assistance carrying groceries...I'm sure we can come up with something to buy you an extra hour. Maybe a tag-team operation could buy you the whole day!

 

[twyfordbridge]

Hi again,

Before you buy a 36V you must ensure that the internal controller is exactly the same as mine and that the components can take it. I didn't run mine at 36V until I checked it out. You don't want to blow the controller up! It almost certainly is the same but you must make sure.

Paul

Paul,

I did try to open the casing on the controller but it was so difficult that I had to give up as I was worried about damaging the wires and circuitry inside. Only the end opposite wired end came off. The whole of the other end is fixed in with so much silicone I wasnt able to move it. The top of the casing seems like a slip in lid,but his again was heavily siliconed and unmovable - I didnt fancy trying a hammer.

From the end which I could open,I could see an object soldered to the pcb which looked to be almost wedged into the space where the iside of the casing top has an internal flange on othe left side running the length of the lid. To Try andremove the lid would have made it likely that this elec component would have been damaged (see bottom left of photo).

I was unable to get a good shot with the lid on as camera wont focus in that dark space.

 

[knoxie]

Hello Twfordbridge!

Dont worry!! your controller can be replaced very cheaply for a better one should it go wrong and your motor would most likely take 600W without overheating, there is no difference 250-350W, those little motors can take a lot more.
Cheers

Knoxie

Hello Knoxie

What controller would you have in mind? And where to buy? Do you think a crystalyte one would work?

Paul

Hi yes the xlyte one should work ok, these motors are not sensorless are they? you could use the 36-72V 20A controller, nice and small and cheap, they can be run over 20A quite easily as well. The stock controllers are always the weak point in these kits, the motors always work a lot a better with none specced controllers as the suppliers by law often limit the controllers to ensure that the kits stick to the local regs.

Mark at Team Hybrid stocks them http://www.teamhybrid.co.uk they are geared motors as well I am pretty sure, still quite easy to pep up.

Cheers

Knoxie

 

[gardener]

Paul,

I did try to open the casing on the controller but it was so difficult that I had to give up as I was worried about damaging the wires and circuitry inside. Only the end opposite wired end came off. The whole of the other end is fixed in with so much silicone I wasnt able to move it. The top of the casing seems like a slip in lid,but his again was heavily siliconed and unmovable - I didnt fancy trying a hammer.

From the end which I could open,I could see an object soldered to the pcb which looked to be almost wedged into the space where the iside of the casing top has an internal flange on othe left side running the length of the lid.

The objects are the MOSFETs which press against the casing in order to help dissipate heat. They are not attached to the casing so you won't break them when you take the lid off.
You can scrape away at the silicone and undo the four screws for the end panel and then the case will lift off. Prise it off from the side opposite to the MOSFETS, you may have to press a little just below the top right hand screw hole in your picture in order to release the top cover. The plastic end panel has a sliding part to it which slides down to hold the wires in place. If you take this out you can slide the whole circuit board out from the case.

The first time I took mine apart I was worried but it came apart ok and nothing broke. Just take it easy and scrape away all the silicone.

Paul

 

[twyfordbridge]

Okay Paul, I'll have another go tomorow and let you know how I got on.

Thanks again, (I will be contacting EBS tomorrow also about the possible/probable fault with their 24v battery).



Richard

 

[twyfordbridge]

Hi again,

As a result of the probable faulty cell as explained by Xyster and Gardener, I emailed the supplier about the issues raised. I also cut and pasted Xysters and Gardeners comments (without names or where info came from).
Below is what I sent them:
+
First reply to my query

(Me) Battery reads charging slowly in inrcrements only up to 26.2 then the red light changes to green and the battery (while still connected to charger) reads 29.3. Even leaving it at the this 29.3, the battery will only read 26.2-3 when disconnecting from charger.


(Reply) Hmm. My first battery always read 29V after charging (when disconnected from the charger). The one I have now started out at 29V and after about 20 cycles has settled at 28.4V. I get 29.2-29.3V when connected. I think your battery is not healthy. Perhaps one of the 7 cells is not accepting charge.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second reply to my query


(Me) Battery reads charging slowly in inrcrements only up to 26.2 then the red light changes to green and the battery (while still connected to charger) reads 29.3. Even leaving it at the this 29.3, the battery will only read 26.2-3 when disconnecting from charger.


(Reply) Sounds like there's a serious problem with your battery pack. The 29.3 volt reading while plugged in suggests the pack is 7 lithium cells in series (which at 4.2 volts per cell full charge would = 29.4 peak volts). 26.2 volts hot off the charger means each cell is around 3.74 volts (26.2 volts / 7 cells) -- a point where there's only 20% charge left! If this is correct, I'm surprised you even get 10 miles -- perhaps that's with a lot of pedaling.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the email I received back - Have I been fobbed off or is the supplier right:

Hi Richard,

I think that the battery is probably performing correctly. There are small voltage tolerances in each cell and most of our batteries are reading 26-27v when fully charged. Don't forget, the battery management circuitary also zaps a bit of power.

The range you are getting, of 11 miles, is pretty decent. Of course it is possible to get more, as per the written spec of the kit, but there are too many variables to take into account.. the bike, the terrain, the hill gradients, the rider.

I would suggest that the battery is absolutely fine. If you are unconvinced, we will take it back and test it, and replace if necessary, but you would need to cover carriage.

I can also offer a good price on SLA cells if you wanted to fabricate a cheap back up second battery.

Hope this helps, and happy cycling

Regards
Jamie

Many Thanks

Jamie McAlley

The Electric Transport Shop

 

[gardener]

Hi again,


Here is the email I received back - Have I been fobbed off or is the supplier right:

Hi Richard,

I think that the battery is probably performing correctly. There are small voltage tolerances in each cell and most of our batteries are reading 26-27v when fully charged. Don't forget, the battery management circuitary also zaps a bit of power.

I don't believe a word of it. If it's true then all their batteries are shot.

The range you are getting, of 11 miles, is pretty decent. Of course it is possible to get more, as per the written spec of the kit, but there are too many variables to take into account.. the bike, the terrain, the hill gradients, the rider.

Yes, but you are getting 11 miles of pathetic performance. I can get 8-14 miles out of mine depending on terrain. Granted it doesn't feel as powerful as the 8 Ah Nimh I have which suggests it's not putting out many amps but from what you say the battery is pretty useless which is not normal.

I would suggest that the battery is absolutely fine.

fob, fob, fob.

When did you buy the kit? Did you pay by credit card? I would suggest trying to get a refund from them. If you can't get one from them they you can get one from the credit card issuer. I think you have a case of the goods not being fit for purpose. It's worth a try.

There is the option of the powacycle Nimh and charger for £140 which would give much better performance (assuming of course that your motor is not actually faulty as well) but you may not want to be spending more which I would understand.

Keep bugging them till they give in.

Paul

 

[twyfordbridge]

Hiya again,

I have just taken the controller out of its casing to see if Gardener can confirm it is the same as his, can you get back me please Paul.

If it is the same, and the kit can take 36v NiMh with my 250 watt hub motor - then here is what I propose to do.

1) Buy 36V NiMh and charger
2) Use it with my existing kit, keeping crappy 24 Li-ion as a spare
3) Save my pocketmoney over next two months.
4) Buy the Puma 400 watt kit (excl batteries)
5) THEN - put all my original kit and the crappy battery on my wifes bike, wrap it up with a bow just in time for her birthday !

Here is two pics of controller undressed for Gardener to hopefully identify.

 

[josh]

Hi Richard,

Sorry I can't help directly re your motor, but you might also get some help at the pedelecs forums .

 

[gardener]

Update:

Richard is checking the caps + MOSFETS as Fechter advised me to do on another thread. Will update when results are known.

Paul