Can't connect pc to kelly controller

[andrenoites]

Am I doing something wrong?

I have the usb to serial port cable with drivers instaled using port COM10 (windows 7 64bits)
Kelly KBS user program for model KBS48101L

Plugged the controler at 48v with Twist Grip Throttle in the on position

Software still can't find the controler

Anyone knows what is the default low voltage cutoff of this controllers?

TKS,

André

 

[riba2233]

Have you read the manual?

It says:

"5.2 Configuration
You can configure the controller with a host computer through either an RS232 or USB port.
• Disconnect motor wiring from controller.
• Do not connect B+, throttle and so on. The controller may display fault code, but it doesn't
affect programming or configuration.
• Use a straight through RS232 cable or USB converter provided by Kelly to connect to a
host computer. Provide >+18V to PWR（for a 24V controller, provide >+8V）. Wire power
supply return(supply negative) to any RTN pin."

 

[andrenoites]

Tks for the reply riba2233

If I understand right, I have to disconect all the cables from the controller except the follow:

serial port to usb in pc
24V battery red wire onto PWR (pink wire in the controler - see image)
Black wire from the battery to any RTN pin (black wire in the controler)

Please confirm if this is right? I do not want to burn the controller...


ps: do I really need a Kelly official cable or any usb to serial port work?

 

[riba2233]

Yes, that's right.

You don't have to use kelly usb to serial, you can use some other, if it works of course. You can also use serial cable if your PC has an serial port.

 

[andrenoites]

Tks again for the help. I will try again tomorow

Do you have one of this controllers? Can you tell me what is the default low voltage cutoff?

Im going to run lipos so im whoried about not letting the voltage go under 3.65v

 

[velias]

I have a kelly and used to be able to communicate thru the PC, so I'm no help, but I wish I knew what happened with mine. It worked fine for a couple of years or so then stopped communicating with the same set-up. I'm thinking about opening it up maybe a broken or corroded serial port pin or something. Luckily I had a good set of parameters in it before the serial stopped working so I gave up trying to figure it out.
I emailed them and they were not any help since it was out of warranty and so much time had passed.
I'm still happy with it because its been running for 4 or 5 years now unlike the cheap chinese ones I had before that had capacitors constantly dropping off them.

 

[pchen92]

Disconnecting the throttle and motor is only to make sure the motor won't run during programmation. I used to program my Kelly without disconnecting a wire.

But now I'm having problem to program it with a windows 7. It can't find the usb driver even if I install it manually (the one on the kelly website). I send kelly a mail to see if they can solve the problem.

 

[riba2233]

Tks again for the help. I will try again tomorow

Do you have one of this controllers? Can you tell me what is the default low voltage cutoff?

Im going to run lipos so im whoried about not letting the voltage go under 3.65v

There is no such thing as default low voltage cutoff. You have to think about it and figure out If you don't want it to go under 3.65v per cell, then put a value of 3.65 x number of cells - 2v. Maybe you should go even lower because of sagging under load.

Disconnecting the throttle and motor is only to make sure the motor won't run during programmation. I used to program my Kelly without disconnecting a wire.

But now I'm having problem to program it with a windows 7. It can't find the usb driver even if I install it manually (the one on the kelly website). I send kelly a mail to see if they can solve the problem.

Until you solve that, find a PC with serial port, it works for me even on windows 8.

 

[andrenoites]

Beyond the low voltage cut off, any particular setting that is advisable to configure?

 

[riba2233]

It is very important to set the correct throttle sensor type and control mode should be torque. The rest is up to you, you should understand what you are changing.

 

[andrenoites]

Already tried with other computer with windows xp and serial port but still no go.

To the guys that used to connect:

Does the serial port need a special configuration?
I have all the cables connected, does the light on the throttle need to be on or off?
Any other tip or procedure to be made?

Tks,
André

 

[bose]

I think that you will find the settings needed for the serial port on Kelly's website. It is also a possibility that you need to use a low comport number. Try to set comport to 1 for your USB to serial adapter.
Run -> devmgmt.msc [enter] find your USB to serial converter, properties and then advanced settings. Change to 1.

 

[jumpjack]

Did you ever manage to solve this issue?
I have a KEB72801X which doesn't want at all communicate with any PC I tried, both with USB-serial cable or direct serial connection to real serial port.
The red led keeps flashing, but the green one never lighted up since first power-on: may this be an indication of controller failure? Would Kelly replace/fix it for free? I purchased it 1 week ago and it never worked!
Can I send manual serial commands to the controller to test it?!?

 

[cwah]

i have the same problem. It was working yesterday and it doesn't work anymore!!!! anyone solved this issue????

 

[jumpjack]

All I know is that:
- green led will not light until all error codes are gone (said by Kelly customer support)
- I eventually succeeded with connecting to my controller using a laptop with real serial port:


* Windows 7
* No antivirus installed
* Program installed in C:
* Real serial port (COM1)
* Controller powered by 19V connected to PWR pin (connecting to B+ is not enough)
* Serial port monitoring using HDD Device Monitoring Studio ( Binary File, Serial Port, USB, Network Developer Software for Windows)

I logged some data running between controller and PC:

000001: PnP Event (DOWN),      17.11.2015 18:48:50.957        (1. Device: Porta di comunicazione (COM1))    The device has just been connected to the system.
000002: Create Request (DOWN), 17.11.2015 18:49:00.773 +9.815 (1. Device: Porta di comunicazione (COM1))    Process 0xc74 (Kelly Controller.exe) attempted to open the device
000003: Create Request (UP),   17.11.2015 18:49:00.788 +0.015 (1. Device: Porta di comunicazione (COM1))    Process 0xc74 (Kelly Controller.exe) create request status: 0x00000000
000004: I/O Request (DOWN),    17.11.2015 18:49:00.788 +0.0   (1. Device: Porta di comunicazione (COM1))    IOCTL_SERIAL_SET_QUEUE_SIZE: Set queue size
InSize=512
OutSize=512

000007: I/O Request (UP),      17.11.2015 18:49:00.788 +0.0   (1. Device: Porta di comunicazione (COM1))    IOCTL_SERIAL_GET_BAUD_RATE: Retrieve Baud Rate
Baud Rate=1200

000009: I/O Request (UP),      17.11.2015 18:49:00.788 +0.0   (1. Device: Porta di comunicazione (COM1))    IOCTL_SERIAL_GET_LINE_CONTROL: Retrieve line control
WordLength=7
StopBits=1 stop bit
Parity=No parity

[...]

000022: I/O Request (DOWN),    17.11.2015 18:49:00.788 +0.0 (1. Device: Porta di comunicazione (COM1))      IOCTL_SERIAL_SET_BAUD_RATE: Set baud rate
Baud Rate=19200

000024: I/O Request (DOWN),     17.11.2015 18:49:00.788 +0.0 (1. Device: Porta di comunicazione (COM1))     IOCTL_SERIAL_SET_RTS: Set RTS
000026: I/O Request (DOWN),     17.11.2015 18:49:00.788 +0.0 (1. Device: Porta di comunicazione (COM1))     IOCTL_SERIAL_SET_DTR: Set DTR
000028: I/O Request (DOWN),     17.11.2015 18:49:00.788 +0.0 (1. Device: Porta di comunicazione (COM1))     IOCTL_SERIAL_SET_LINE_CONTROL: Set line control
WordLength=8
StopBits=1 stop bit
Parity=No parity

Stripped down version:

Retrieve Baud Rate:        1200
Retrieve line control:     7, n, 1
Set baud rate:             19200
Set RTS
Set DTR
Set line control:          8, n, 1

From this log it results that first connection attempt is performed at 1200BPS, WordLength=7, StopBits=1 stop bit, Parity=No parity , which "means" COM port configuration string is 1200,7,n,1.

Next, a different configuration is visible in the log:
19200, 8, n, 1
RTS on
DTR on

 

[cwah]

Good news, for some reason I don't understand the connector works again.

I have been able to configure the controller with my phone. Maybe it was some water inside because the controller isn't waterproof? I hope it will keep working.

I have set battery current to 100% and phase current to 100%.

But now when I accelerate from stop the motor stops and I have 2 red blinks + 3 red blinks.

Any idea what I should do to avoid that? Is there any way I can use controller current at 100%?

Thank you

 

[jumpjack]

Is there any way I can use controller current at 100%?

Just don't do that: you would soon cook the controller (hence the [2,3] error code: overheating).

A controller must be sized to tolerate double the current you actually use, according to Kelly instructions. I think it's too conservative so I use an 8 kW controller at 5 kW power, but anyway the bigger the controller is w.r.t. the power you need, the longer it will last.

If you absolutely need 100% power, attach the controller to a large aluminum plate, and add a fan (as per Kelly instructions).
And DON'T mount a >5kW controller internally: even with a 95% efficiency this would mean 250W power which is turned into heat and must be extracted from the controller to prevent ovewrheating. Imagine 4 incandescent bulbs rated 60W each: would you ever keep them lighted while enclosed into a box 30x30x30 cm with DOUBLE plastic sides?

 

[cwah]

I only need 100% power for very short burst (few seconds) and the rest of the time I'd probably be using power around 20% current capacity.

So to some extent, I don't really need extra heatsink or fan because I won't heat much.. and when it heat it would heat too fast for a heatsink or fan to be useful.

My problem is when I use full power it only works for 0.3s before it cut off. I put minimum voltage very low (2.3v/cell) so it shouldn't be a battery issue.

I use it for intermittent road "danger" where I want to avoid cars and cyclist. And I need max power at that moment. What is the maximum burst (few seconds) power I can set up in kelly controller then? :/

 

[jumpjack]

So to some extent, I don't really need extra heatsink or fan because I won't heat much..

The error code you get says that yes, it heats up too much!

and when it heat it would heat too fast for a heatsink or fan to be useful.

This means that the controller is under-sized for its usage.

What is the maximum burst (few seconds) power I can set up in kelly controller then? :/

It's written on Kelly site. Which is the exact codenumber of your controller?
My "KEB72801X" tolerates 140A indefinitely and 350A for just 10 seconds:

•Peak Phase Current, 10 seconds: 350A.
•Continuous Phase Current Limit: 140A.

http://kellycontroller.com/keb72801x24v-72v350a8kw-bike-brushless-controller-regen-p-281.html

NOTE!

•Full Power Operating Temperature Range: 0℃ to 50℃ (controller case temperature).
•Operating Temperature Range: -30℃ to 90℃, 100℃ shutdown (controller case temperature).

This means that as long as its temperature is below 50°C, controller can provide 140A indefintely, but the current will be decreased while temperature increases, eventually being totally cut if temperature reaches 100°C.

 

[cwah]

I bought this lighter model:
http://kellycontroller.com/kls7230s24v-72v300asinusoidal-brushless-motor-controller-p-1343.html

Because.. after all, I'm using it on a small folding bike

I hope I can adjust controller to use max power for at least a couple of seconds.. otherwise the advertised power is much lower than advertised :/

 

[jumpjack]

Are you able to measure how much current your controller actually uses during power bursts?
To reduce current (and heating), try higher voltage batteries: to get 3 kW from this controller you can both use a 24V battery, which means 125A, or a 72V battery, wich means 42A.
I guess you're using a 24V battery, being it a foldable bike; but to get the controller quicly hot at 24V you should pull more than 7 kW from it, so I don't quite understand what you are doing... Climbing a mountain?!?
Usually foldable bikes shouldn't use more than 250W (or 1000W in some countries), which would mean 250W/24V/10A (1000W/24V/42A), which is just 8% (35%) of rated continuous current, which in no way would make the controller quickly hot.

 

[cwah]

I don't know exactly how much current I've been using during burst because I don't have a wattmeter. I'm ordering one from ebay now:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111769008914?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

It may take a bit of time to arrive but hopefully it should give me some answer....


I'm not climbing mountain... just trying to avoid danger on traffic! sometime I need to start very quick to avoid car coming to me. Or go faster than a bike on a lane but be careful of the car on the side....
On these occasion, the faster the better. However if it stop working while I try to avoid danger, then it becomes a catastrophe!!