Carbon frame and mid-drive kits 3kW+

[Deephaven]

In many places on the site, I see recommendations to avoid carbon frames but these are mostly referring to drop outs in support of hub motors. I currently am in the process of contemplating a GNG Cyclone kit or the X1 Pro on my bike. For the bike, I currently own a Dengfu Carbon Fat bike or have the option of buying a full suspension bike. I am extremely tall and am only finding carbon full suspension bikes in my size. From my reading, my preference is to use an aluminum frame but want to make sure that I am not taking this out of context. I would expect that the largest concern is the clamping/motor support on the carbon frame as I assume their strength is not in point compression.

What all is your take? I'd hate to spend $3k on a carbon enduro bike to need to turn around and buy a new frame. If I find an aluminum in my size (stack >650, reach > 500) I'd be glad to snag it, but currently this is very difficult on the used market...actually with Covid, nearly impossible on the new as well.

 

[Tommm]

Terrible idea. Get a used 2-3 year old barely used dh bike off pinkbike/ebay for between $900-1400. Did it twice, no regrets.

 

[Deephaven]

I've been searching, but am 6'7" with a 38" inseam and not flexible at all. Getting one in my size hasn't occured. Was afraid you'd say that.

In the world of aluminum, the more modern geometries have BB92 press fit bottom brackets. Is that a complete no go as well?

 

[Tommm]

I've been searching, but am 6'7" with a 38" inseam and not flexible at all. Getting one in my size hasn't occured. Was afraid you'd say that.

In the world of aluminum, the more modern geometries have BB92 press fit bottom brackets. Is that a complete no go as well?

Cyc offer a bb92 version, it is actually the newest motor. Even other pressfit bbs like bb107, you can get pf to bsa adaptors.

 

[Deephaven]

Thanks Tommm. I had seen some adapters...but generally I don't trust adapters. If they are okay I will continue my search.

 

[MadRhino]

A good frame is good in any material, just like a crap frame is crap anyhow. Good frames are expansive, that is why we like building on used bikes of the best quality.

A tall guy always have a hard time finding a bike that suits him well. Some manufacturers are offering XXL frames, but they are hard to find used. See Santa Cruz V10 for very robust available in XXL or the Tallboy for a lighter build. Some used hit the market sometimes, but you need to watch often because they fly in a day. Many who are building powerful ebikes like to build on bikes larger than their size.

 

[momus3]

There's these guys. Have no idea on prices, but looks pricey. Might be worth it though. I'm thinking that a custom frame is your best bet.
https://zinncycles.com/custom-bikes/project-big-and-tall/

A quick google search turned up a whole lot of info. Might take a while to plow through it.
https://www.google.com/search?q=who+makes+bikes+for+tall+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjRo8b2wJrqAhXPJTQIHSAKDPwQ_AUoAnoECA8QBA&biw=1094&bih=510

 

[Deephaven]

There's these guys. Have no idea on prices, but looks pricey. Might be worth it though. I'm thinking that a custom frame is your best bet.
https://zinncycles.com/custom-bikes/project-big-and-tall/

A quick google search turned up a whole lot of info. Might take a while to plow through it.
https://www.google.com/search?q=who+makes+bikes+for+tall+people&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjRo8b2wJrqAhXPJTQIHSAKDPwQ_AUoAnoECA8QBA&biw=1094&bih=510

Thanks for searching. I created a spreadsheet and have logged the stack/reach/chainstay/top tube etc for everything that could possibly come close to my size. Up over 200 frames. Custom would fit better, but finding a custom frame manufacturer that will build a steel frame with long travel full suspension and allocate for the e-motor isn't priced in a way I would do it. If I were it'd be something like the Starling with a Rohloff....but I don't want $6k in it without electronics.

 

[Deephaven]

A tall guy always have a hard time finding a bike that suits him well. Some manufacturers are offering XXL frames, but they are hard to find used. See Santa Cruz V10 for very robust available in XXL or the Tallboy for a lighter build.

I fit on a V10 pretty well. They are Carbon though which was shunned above. Lots of Carbon stuff in my size, not so many Aluminum options.

 

[boytitan]

I have a large canondale scapel and hate how large it is. I have a easier time getting on and off and flat footing my large sized and highly upgraded vilano road bike. They have a xl size, and the old ones which I have only have a carbon fiber swing arm with a aluminum but tons of battery space in the 2007 and earlier models.. The swing arm isn't fully carbon fiber the drop outs are aluminum I run a 1500watt hub motor in it at 2000+ watts.

 

[MadRhino]

A tall guy always have a hard time finding a bike that suits him well. Some manufacturers are offering XXL frames, but they are hard to find used. See Santa Cruz V10 for very robust available in XXL or the Tallboy for a lighter build.

I fit on a V10 pretty well. They are Carbon though which was shunned above. Lots of Carbon stuff in my size, not so many Aluminum options.

I would understand if you had to make custom dropouts for a hub, but for a BB drive a CF frsme is just as easy to build.

Are you afraid to break a V10? Then you can be afraid to break most frames at first ride. This frame is lifetime crash guaranteed. I have purchased 2 V10 in my life and never had to claim a guarantee after 3+ dozen crashes.

Here are some tests on Santa Cruz frames

[youtube]w5eMMf11uhM[/youtube]

 

[Deephaven]

I was unsure which is why I made the thread. I know Carbon is really strong as a bike frame, but having things strapped on to it changes the dynamics. My current carbon bike is a beast and has been through hell without the mid-drive so I didn't see a problem, but also don't want to build something that catastrophically fails. Tommm called it a "terrible idea" so I started shopping for Aluminum only. Finding a CF bike in my size is way easier. Pinkbike has about 10 AL bikes in my size that work and about 5x that in CF.

 

[MadRhino]

Returning to my previous post from some time ago:

Good frames are good in any material, and there are a lot of crap frames in all materials.

The judgment of bike frames by material is irrelevant. Judge them by manufacturers. Those who are saying to build on steel frames only, are the same who are building on cheap wallbikes. You may prefer some material to others, but keep in mind that good steel frames are just as expansive as CF, Ti, or alu.

 

[Ham]

fwiw I recently picked up a large Orange Patriot 7+ frame and it is big, way bigger than my old stumpjumper XL. The higher than normal bottom bracket makes the need for a very tall seat height immediate.

Worth looking at for a very strong, large and known for strength frame.

6'2" here with 34" inseam for ref.

 

[MadRhino]

fwiw I recently picked up a large Orange Patriot 7+ frame and it is big, way bigger than my old stumpjumper XL. The higher than normal bottom bracket makes the need for a very tall seat height immediate.

Worth looking at for a very strong, large and known for strength frame.

6'2" here with 34" inseam for ref.

Yep. Manufacturers are not standard in the sizing of their frames. One that is labeled L in one brand, may be equivalent as an XXL in another. Tall riders always have a hard time finding a bike that suits their size, because many brands are not available large enough for them. So we see many tall riders on bikes that are too small, tuned to their size with extra long stem and layback seat post. While this can make a proper cockpit size, it is making the bike more difficult to control in hard cornering and jumping. With high power motorization, it is very difficult to obtain a proper geometry with a frame that is too small, and the short wheelbase does lack stability at high speed.

 

[Returnformer]

it might be a bit less stable than a properly sized bike for me, but im 6'4", and the bike i ended up using is a 19" frame. imo, for converting to an ebike, proper sizing isnt as important as for a bike for regular riding, as youre not really pedaling all that much. (assuming you use the throttle mostly, as i do.) you do need something reasonably close (i tried building on a 17" frame once [it ended up being smaller than advertised] and it didnt work for me) but for me, at least, close is good enough. i did add a stem extension, though, so the handlebars are higher than theyd otherwise be.

 

[MadRhino]

it might be a bit less stable than a properly sized bike for me, but im 6'4", and the bike i ended up using is a 19" frame. imo, for converting to an ebike, proper sizing isnt as important as for a bike for regular riding, as youre not really pedaling all that much. (assuming you use the throttle mostly, as i do.) you do need something reasonably close (i tried building on a 17" frame once [it ended up being smaller than advertised] and it didnt work for me) but for me, at least, close is good enough. i did add a stem extension, though, so the handlebars are higher than theyd otherwise be.

With power and speed, you need a longer wheelbase. Stretched or compact cockpit tuning is irrelevant, a matter of personal preference, comfort or riding style. Let’s say, you’d be better tuning a long bike to a shorter riding position, than stretching the cockpit of a short one. And the faster you ride, the more important those few extra inches of wheelbase are.

 

[Returnformer]

With power and speed, you need a longer wheelbase. Stretched or compact cockpit tuning is irrelevant, a matter of personal preference, comfort or riding style. Let’s say, you’d be better tuning a long bike to a shorter riding position, than stretching the cockpit of a short one. And the faster you ride, the more important those few extra inches of wheelbase are.

i dont disagree with that, although im not sure exactly how/why it makes a difference. but op's main concern seemed to be comfort, which imo is more flexible on an ebike.