Charger like LiPro 6S

[TonyVov]

I've been searching all the various stickies and posts and have yet to find an attractive option for a Charger that can also be a tool.
From the RC world for LiIon up to 6S there is a range of products with wonderful features.
I am looking for a device like this to put in a maker space attached to a school to use for eBikes and scooters and DIY projects.
To allow for all kinds of visitors to charge, to support DIY, to troubleshoot, to teach.
Don't need extreme capabilities but need to go from 6S to 14S or 15S

Right now users are using adjustable bench power supplies and human timing and a bunch of crocodile clips with all the associated risks of fire and abuse.

Any suggestions ??
I found a thing called a Cycle Satiator that is programmable but it is 300$ and lacks a lot of these features.
The RC 6S devices are 30$

The RC Bench Charger
============================
The best example I have found is the
Lipo Battery Charger for LiPo/Li-ion/Life/LiHV Battery (1-6S), NiMH/NiCd (1-15S), Rc Hobby Battery Balance Charger LED W/AC Power Adapte (B6-Blue)
https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Charg...hf_se_p_img_2?
about 32$

This thing is very smart.
It builds your pack.
You can set limits for control time, aH, current, quick charge
It has built in balance feature - you can wire pack to it with no BMS.

You can use it to charge, to quick charge
You can use it to discharge with adjustable cutoff
You can set battery to STORE (drain to about 40%)
You can wire it to your PC and record the data.

It counts time and power clearly on the screen.
You can store up to 10 profiles.
It checks that the program selected and the battery attached match in expected parameters before starting.
It can take AC OR DC input - yes you can charge from your car.
It can program Pb, LiIon, LiPo, NiCd, NiMh

The bummer is it is only 6S

Any suggestions ??

 

[flat tire]

Easiest solution to use RC chargers with higher voltage packs is split your pack into multiples of whatever the charger can handle or less.

 

[john61ct]

^^ this

Modular packs, various Ah capacities and voltages.

Teach them serial vs parallel

 

[john61ct]

Have fireproof charging boxes, learn judging EoL, get good insurance.

Or go to LiFePO4

Lead to save a lot of money, help them get some exercise

 

[TonyVov]

Some heavy duty googling through this forums links turns up an 8S balance charger.
Getting closer.

It is not practical or "safe" to split the pack routinely for inspection.
I agree with the comments on the firebox having seen the destruction from sealed single use High temp Li C-Cells in the oilfield. The battery lab was an explosive bunker with 10m radius and we got rained on by debris from 3 cell test.

HobbyKing™ ECO8 150W 7A 8S Bal/Dis/Cyc Charger w/ accessories

 

[flat tire]

It's perfectly safe to split packs lol. Whether it's practical is up to you but it only takes a few seconds to reconfigure. You obviously have no experience with any of this so your judgement at this point is invalid.

Also, 10S and even 12S RC balance chargers are readily available.

 

[john61ct]

Some heavy duty googling through this forums links turns up an 8S balance charger

Getting closer.

10S are common, 12S exist but very limited choices.


> It is not practical or "safe" to split the pack routinely for inspection.

Absolute bulldust. Build with whatever connectors you like, put per-pack isolation switches in if you like.

No one's talking about "inspection".

They may only occasionally need balancing, monitor through the BMS in the meantime do bulk charging through the pack power leads.

 

[Hillhater]

Guys, read the OP again....

I am looking for a device like this to put in a maker space attached to a school to use for eBikes and scooters and DIY projects.
To allow for all kinds of visitors to charge, to support DIY, to troubleshoot, to teach.

The charger system needs to be foolproof and safe....
Splitting packs etc is not a realistic solution with a variety of different users.
At $300+ the Siator seems to me to be a realistic “ let you sleep at night” solution.
.....or maybe a selection of different charge stations with preset voltages ?

 

[john61ct]

The Satiator is excellent, but adjustable, usually a good thing.

It does not balance, obviously nothing but RC Hobby chargers do.

I would have thought the whole point was teaching everyone the details of this technology

there really is no way to make it safe if just "any visitor" is allowed to handle the packs and recharge them.

A small group of well-trained designated experts needs to be responsible for teaching and supervising

or actually handling the charging, just giving out Fully charged packs to noobs, ensuring they don't get drawn down too low.

Ongoing testing to make sure packs are being retired before the safe EoL point will also be critical.

Boom bad

 

[TonyVov]

Excellent points and exactly what we are trying to achieve. The idea is not to make tools like this available without supervision, but to have tools like this available for Troubleshooting and education supervised.

We are using the iMax BA6 6S programmable charger with great success and safety on smaller devices 5-24V including low voltage DC Solar, Powerwell reclaimed battery buckets and some RC projects etc.

Unfortunately the cheap but risky way for eBikes is to get a bunch of chargers and adapters.

The 300$ charger will cost me about 500$ here in Indonesia if I can even find it
For this money we can buy one of each voltage regular chargers with a lot of change but are left without a useful training, Troubleshooting, education tool.

The 'problem' with using the standard equipment to troubleshoot is that it is generally hard to get at the inputs and outputs to measure while connected .

I'm afraid I'm priced outside of budget for now.

As other users have offered for training we can split the packs into 6S or smaller sections under supervision.
With the now rapid growth of Vespa style eScooters here i expect a lot more activity in this area.

Still looking.....

 

[john61ct]

Set it as a research project for the students, focus on Singapore, China / HK & Taiwan ask for contributions by local businesses and maybe better off parents, leave room for non-dangerous mistakes.

You'll find students that can take the lead, soon be teaching you

 

[Hillhater]

Maybe consider this charge controller ( you will still nee a DC power supply for it....or solar ! ), as a possible budget tool.
Has fully adjustable charge voltage..12 to 72 v, adjustable charge current , etc, and cheap $30..
I have no personal experience with it, so check out the feedback and reviews on line first.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=88930

 

[john61ct]

Redneck kludge solution's not indicated here.

Have not seen one good review, lots of threads citing problems.

Good for a troubleshooting / rebuilding project once students are more expert on electronics maybe

 

[TonyVov]

The solar charger could be interesting if we build a power bank system but for eBike batteries we really need the CC-CV charging algorithm that even the cheap chargers have now. Thanks for the feedback.

Most of the online complaints were based on users trying to use it below it's rated voltage. It is a dc-dc step up charger.
It's scary how many online sites are selling it right now.

There are a lot of dc-dc step down chargers for the 12-24V market we use one from EP Ever to manage our 12v system on the composting loo.

 

[Hillhater]

As with any RC type charger, there are good and bad experiences.. they all seem to have a limited life and various other issues.
The 7210 A certainly has mixed reviews, and much mis information floating about, but as you say most of the issues seem to be with those using it from solar panel (variable input) , whilst those using a power supply feed have less problems.
It does have CCCV charge profiles for lithium, lead, and NiMh acording to reviews ( there are data logged charged curves on line from users) and fair bit of on line support videos to help set up options.....
You could PM the ES member “Sunder” for some first hand user feedback.
...i may even try one myself...a man can never have enough chargers !

 

[TonyVov]

Thanks for the update , I am now revising my opinion, it actually looks good I have linked another chat from this forum here

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=81736

One of the users tested the controller by using one eBike Battery to charge another. Found that the efficiency of transfer was above 90%.

This could be an excellent way for me to limit risk with inexperienced users, using another battery as the source.

I really appreciate the feedback it is very encouraging. I will try it out.

Terima kasih Hillhater and John61ct

 

[TonyVov]

Link to document on 7210A

https://www.yampe.com/images/pdf/2907.pdf

looks like it may only shutoff on time. Not clear if the aH setting is a cutoff - I guess I'll find out later.