Cheap LiFePo4 on ebay

[mrhat24]

Hi, I saw this on Ebay 48V 10A & was wondering if its worth it for 520 shipping included. My intention is to use it with a goldenmotor 500w hub motor, & I want to go about 27 miles/hr with this, with some gentle hills. My distance is no more than 12miles each time. Even with the low C rate of 3C do yall think this is a good buy for my use? Also whats the C rate on Ping battery?
thanks a lot


Specifications:
Fit 48V Motor Wattage: 400 Watt to 600 Watt, 480 Watt suggested
Voltage: 51.2 Volts
Capacity: 10 Amp Hours
Dimension: 130x148x68mm x2 or 130x148x135mm or 260x148x68mm
Weight: 4.2 kg
Charging Voltage: 58 Volts
Charging Current: <5 Amps
Nominal current 10A, peak 20A, BMS cutoff 40A
Lifecycle: >1500 times
C Rating of 3

 

[Rassy]

These specs always confuse me:
Nominal current 10 Amp (1C)
Peak current 20 Amp (2C)
Rating 3C
Cutoff 40 Amp (4C)

So, what is this battery rated for?
That price does not seem too far off Ping's price for a 48V 20 AH (twice the capacity). My price for each of the Anna batteries (48V 20 AH) was a little over $500 with shipping. In the future, I would be inclined to pay a little extra to deal with someone like Ping.

 

[ty cohen]

http://cgi.ebay.ca/48V-10AH-LiFePo4-Electric-Bicycle-Battery-Lithium-Ion_W0QQitemZ220259400392QQihZ012QQcategoryZ158998QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Is this the guy?

It says item location in Vancouver, but he has a China Olympic note regarding shipping. What's with that? Is the item in Vancouver, or China?

I was going to email him on local pick up to save the 99$ shipping, but didn't bother. I'd rather spend my money on Ping's (even though they are duct taped together and not in a neat hard plastic carry case).

I inquired about it too in another post. I looks like he just started to get into Lifepo4's and hasn't really got a track record of selling them yet. He was selling other stuff before.

Ping looks like the ebay leader, and then the next closest seller is a guy named jimmywu66, but he is a distant second.

 

[dogman dan]

You won't be going 27mph with that amp rating, and lots of batterys of that sise ,10 ah, have tripped when accelerating or climbing a hill. Stick with the Ping, they are the real mccoy. 10 ah is suitalble for real low watt bikes, like 2 or 3 hundred but 5 or 6 hundred watt bikes or scooters need bigger batteries. Basicly each foil pouch in the cell can put out 4 or 5 amps discharge, so the big batteries can put out closer to 20 amps rated without stressing the cells. Buy too small, like 10 ah, and you will not be as likely to see the 1000 plus cycles we drool for, even if the battery doesn't trip. I have a 20 ah ping, and am thinking next time I buy, I want a 24 ah or even larger, so it won't have any problem running a bigger motor and controller some time in the future. The battery is not the place to economize. My ebikes are super cheapo, but they run great on my high quality battery. With a123's or lifebatts it's a different story with the higher c rates but the prismatic cells need to be in a big pack to deliver the amps.

 

[ty cohen]

You won't be going 27mph with that amp rating, and lots of batterys of that sise ,10 ah, have tripped when accelerating or climbing a hill. Stick with the Ping, they are the real mccoy. 10 ah is suitalble for real low watt bikes, like 2 or 3 hundred but 5 or 6 hundred watt bikes or scooters need bigger batteries. Basicly each foil pouch in the cell can put out 4 or 5 amps discharge, so the big batteries can put out closer to 20 amps rated without stressing the cells. Buy too small, like 10 ah, and you will not be as likely to see the 1000 plus cycles we drool for, even if the battery doesn't trip. I have a 20 ah ping, and am thinking next time I buy, I want a 24 ah or even larger, so it won't have any problem running a bigger motor and controller some time in the future. The battery is not the place to economize. My ebikes are super cheapo, but they run great on my high quality battery. With a123's or lifebatts it's a different story with the higher c rates but the prismatic cells need to be in a big pack to deliver the amps.

So you are saying that min for a 600 w motor should be 48v 20ah battery?

 

[mrhat24]

http://cgi.ebay.ca/48V-10AH-LiFePo4-Electric-Bicycle-Battery-Lithium-Ion_W0QQitemZ220259400392QQihZ012QQcategoryZ158998QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Is this the guy?

It says item location in Vancouver, but he has a China Olympic note regarding shipping. What's with that? Is the item in Vancouver, or China?

I was going to email him on local pick up to save the 99$ shipping, but didn't bother. I'd rather spend my money on Ping's (even though they are duct taped together and not in a neat hard plastic carry case).

I inquired about it too in another post. I looks like he just started to get into Lifepo4's and hasn't really got a track record of selling them yet. He was selling other stuff before.

Ping looks like the ebay leader, and then the next closest seller is a guy named jimmywu66, but he is a distant second.

The seller I was looking at is indeed mr. jimmywu66

http://cgi.ebay.com/48V10AH-LiFePO4-Electric-Scooter-E-Bike-Li-Fe-Battery_W0QQitemZ290247301692QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item290247301692&_trksid=p3911.m14.l1318

I was also looking at that guy from Vancuver but the no shipping till August was bs also. I think hes basicly ordering bulk load of batteries from goldenmotor since its dimensions and specs are similiar to what goldenmotor is selling. Also hes selling the goldenmotor kit as well.

From another response on here about getting a battery with low Amph not being able to climb hill well, I thought that Amph is just like how much gas in the tank I have. I thought its mainly the volt is whats gonna give me enough torqu to climb & not so much on Amph. Since my roundtrip distance is only 11 miles I figure I opt out for the cheaper one since I'm already overspending my initial budget of $1000. But if Ping's battery will do a better job then I guess I should buy his 48v 15A. Crap I just checked on ebay, he doesn't sell 48v 15 anymore, so only things left is 48 20A and thats gonna run close to $800 total!!!
goldenmotor 48v = $400
48v 10A battery = $520
cheap bike = $150
racks & bags = $100
----------------------------
1170 <-------- Its gonna take me 2 years for this system to pay off for itself

 

[ty cohen]

From another response on here about getting a battery with low Amph not being able to climb hill well, I thought that Amph is just like how much gas in the tank I have. I thought its mainly the volt is whats gonna give me enough torqu to climb & not so much on Amph. Since my roundtrip distance is only 11 miles I figure I opt out for the cheaper one since I'm already overspending my initial budget of $1000. But if Ping's battery will do a better job then I guess I should buy his 48v 15A.

That is what I thought too. amp hours is analogous to your gas tank (range) and volts is analogous to your horsepower, (speed)

My rountrip is exactly just like yours. I think min I will go for is 48v15ah. Just wait, Ping will probably put more batts out after the Olympics.

my payback will be about working 100 days if I take the car (5 months). It costs me 9$ a day to drive and pay for parking at work. For my motorcycle, it costs me $3.65 a day including parking. (about a year)

I rode in a non power assisted bicycle earlier this year and I really put up a sweat climbing up the hill there and back. (yes, I have an uphill, both ways :lol: ) My fastest was 16 mins, but I was pooped. I just timed my motorycle - 14 mins. I'm sure I can get there faster on an ebike, since we have dedicated bike routes with little or no car traffic.

 

[andys]

I am running a 15 pound Ping 48V 15AH on a BMC geared hub. The thing will run farther on a charge than I need it to-at least 35 miles. A 10AH battery is actually plenty for most e-bikes IF its continuous amp output can keep up with the needs of the controller.

 

[pwbset]

A 10AH battery is actually plenty for most e-bikes IF its continuous amp output can keep up with the needs of the controller.

I only use between 4-5ah a day and I'm climbing 1,600ft each morning and round tripping 15-17mi/day. I can't even imagine needing 20ah, but clearly there are tons of people using that and more. Personally I would build your bike for your commute range only unless you're looking to do long recreational rides or whatever. 11mi round trip is peanuts and won't need much capacity.

Keeping the weight/cost down seems more important to me than having mostly unneeded/unused extra capacity/weight/cost. .02

EDIT: Worth noting probably that the batteries I'm using can discharge a heck of a lot more than 1C (Milwaukee) so that keeps the battery size requirements down I suppose.

 

[ty cohen]

I am running a 15 pound Ping 48V 15AH on a BMC geared hub. The thing will run farther on a charge than I need it to-at least 35 miles. A 10AH battery is actually plenty for most e-bikes IF its continuous amp output can keep up with the needs of the controller.

a 600 watt hub motor using 48v 10ah would required a discharge of 1.2C

a 48v12ah battery would just make it for 1C discharge.

I only use between 4-5ah a day and I'm climbing 1,600ft each morning and round tripping 15-17mi/day. I can't even imagine needing 20ah, but clearly there are tons of people using that and more. Personally I would build your bike for your commute range only unless you're looking to do long recreational rides or whatever. 11mi round trip is peanuts and won't need much capacity.

What amp hour batt (48v range)would you suggest for my typical commute if I wanted to maintain at least 30 to 35 kph uphill on a 7% slope for about 2 km. and about 45kph on the flats?

I don't plan on using the bicycle for anything else as I have a motorcycle for long distance recreational riding.

 

[mrhat24]

You won't be going 27mph with that amp rating, and lots of batterys of that sise ,10 ah, have tripped when accelerating or climbing a hill. Stick with the Ping, they are the real mccoy. 10 ah is suitalble for real low watt bikes, like 2 or 3 hundred but 5 or 6 hundred watt bikes or scooters need bigger batteries. Basicly each foil pouch in the cell can put out 4 or 5 amps discharge, so the big batteries can put out closer to 20 amps rated without stressing the cells. Buy too small, like 10 ah, and you will not be as likely to see the 1000 plus cycles we drool for, even if the battery doesn't trip. I have a 20 ah ping, and am thinking next time I buy, I want a 24 ah or even larger, so it won't have any problem running a bigger motor and controller some time in the future. The battery is not the place to economize. My ebikes are super cheapo, but they run great on my high quality battery. With a123's or lifebatts it's a different story with the higher c rates but the prismatic cells need to be in a big pack to deliver the amps.

People are telling me diffrent things now. So in general will a 48v 10A , c rating of 3, used with goldenmotor 500w motor with a 48v controller give me 27mph?
I weigh 170lb, riding with maybe a 10lb backpack. On hills I know it'll slow me down, so thats when i'll assist with my legs & try to maintain 20mph. My max distance will be 12miles.
So whats the final verdict guys?

 

[Ypedal]

It will depend on the controller and motor and a bunch of other factors.

But.. lets say your golden motor controller is a 48v 20 amp unit.. meaning that at 20 amps, the controller will pulse the power and limit how many watts you draw from the batter

48v x 20 amps = 960w ( fully charged, the battery will be 56v, and if it can maintain decent power the voltage should not dip more than 50 to 45v under load max..

960w will likely make that BMS freak out and trip.

Trip : Cut the power, like the breaker panel in your house does if you draw more than it can handle.. you flip it off and back on to reset it. meaning you have to stop.. unhook the power and reconnect.. this specially sucks at a green light in heavy traffic with a 50 to 80 lbs bike..

If the BMS can temporarily cut off and then reset itself after a few milliseconds then it's not so bad. ( you have to ask the vendor this )

Now.. if that golden motor .. 500w controller.. is a 25amp controller.. or a 30.. or ( some WE units are 40 amps.. ) then forget it.

This battery is aimed at the tiny 200w scooters that peak at 10 amps at 48v. ( small wheels.. 15 to 20 km/h )

don't even get me started about the charger.....

 

[dogman dan]

I may be looking at the wrong battery vendor, and the battery may have round cells with different internal resistance than pings or annas. Here is how I understand it, for the earlier prismatic batteries, the ones with the many foil pouches.

Each of the 16 cells in the battery will have a number of the little pouches with the lifepo4 stuff inside. a 10 ah has 2 pouches per cell, and a 20 ah 4 and so on. Each pouch could safely discharge 5 amps, more for a burst, but 5 amps for the whole ride. so a 10 ah, with only 2 pouches can deliver 10 amps and a 20 ah with 4 pouches can deliver 20 amps, which will power a normal motor, such as a golden, we, or a 400 series clyte.

This new battery vendor, if the cells can discharge 3 c, should have a better rated discharge rate than I saw on the link on this thread, if that is the correct vendor.

In any case, most of us need a rated discharge rate of at least 20 amps, or higher to use the battery on our ebikes without damaging the battery. It's all very confusing and expensive, but I can assure you, you will love the range of a 20 ah battery, and the thing will last a lot longer if it is oversise than if it is undersise. At 50% discharge, 5000 cycles is a possibility. So buy a good battery since you may be using for many years. Don't forget that a 48v 20ah Ping only weighs 20 pounds. My lead 36v 12ah pack weighs 33. Ping's duct tape batteries are proven to work well, and his prices are great. His new cells are supposed to be even better, so maybe a smaller one of those will work. These other batteries are designed with 200 watt scooters and Izip type motors in mind in my opinion, and if 10 mph is all you want or need, then fine.

 

[dogman dan]

Ok, now I'm looking at the right ebay vendor. They still only call for a 10 amp discharge, but the bms at least will let you momentarily pull 40 amps, possibly toasting a few cells. I'd love to try one, since one experiment beats a thousand opinions, but not at that price. It would depend on how you ride. If you want full throttle all the way, I think this pack is not good for that great a cycle life. With so many little cells, it gets easier to get one overdischarged before the bms can sense it. I am not thrilled that my ping has 4 pouches parralelled per cell. This looks to be made of a lot of little ones to me. But if you ride 10 or 15 mph, this pack would be fine, untill you climb a big hill.

 

[dogman dan]

Durnit. Now I'm totally confused mrhat, Just which vendor on ebay are we talking about? The price you mention sounds like luckybbd, but the specs look like jimmywu's. In amy case neither battery looks that good to me for a 500 watt bike. Luckybbd has a bms that cuts off at 20 amps, definitely too low, and jimmywu's appear to have too many cells per pack to me. And neither says what the c rate is, so if they just claim it in an email, well.....

 

[mrhat24]

Durnit. Now I'm totally confused mrhat, Just which vendor on ebay are we talking about? The price you mention sounds like luckybbd, but the specs look like jimmywu's. In amy case neither battery looks that good to me for a 500 watt bike. Luckybbd has a bms that cuts off at 20 amps, definitely too low, and jimmywu's appear to have too many cells per pack to me. And neither says what the c rate is, so if they just claim it in an email, well.....

Its Jimmywu's battery that I was looking at. I made an impulse decision and made the purchase. Now after all that yall said, I'm going to try to cancel the purchase if possible and get a ping's battery. I'm just getting tired of planning and going back and forth on my plans.

 

[Dalecv]

A 48 volt battery pack on a Golden Motor kit will work but you may melt the wires that feed power into the hub motor or the 36 volt controller can fail if you push it too hard. At least that was what people were experiencing about a year ago with the Golden Motor hub drive motors that came with the kit.

I have a Golden Motor electric bike conversion kit and I had it set up on a bike with three 12V/18Ah LA batteries and it was good for 16 miles on flat ground with no pedaling and my bike was carrying a lot more weight than yours will be. A 48V/10Ah LifePo battery pack should give you more range than a 36V/18Ah LA battery pack.

I had some problems with the bearings in my Golden Motor kit but it was a pretty cheap learning experience.

I hope this helps.

 

[dogman dan]

Yeah, we didn't even touch on that subject. Its the WE kits that go 48v with no problems. We really don't know how Jimmywu's battery will do for sure, since we have had no posts from customers. So if you do end up with one, let us know everything. They may be better than we think, but who knows? If it is really a 3c battery, it may be ok. I just don't like so many cells on that one. In any case, it will work at low speeds fine, and if you get stuck with it, you can use it as a range booster for long trips.

 

[Sacman]

Its Jimmywu's battery that I was looking at. I made an impulse decision and made the purchase. Now after all that yall said, I'm going to try to cancel the purchase if possible and get a ping's battery. I'm just getting tired of planning and going back and forth on my plans.

*** CORRECTION TO MY PRINTED MISTAKE ***
I mean't to caution people about the new battery vendor on ebay called EastUnitedMusic (Dan). He is the one causing me grief that I wrote about below.
Jimmywu66 seems to be a good and legit new battery vendor.

Good move based on rethinking your battery's application. Might possibly also be a good move to not buy from this new vendor Jimmywu. I'm sending out a big CAUTION and letting you all know to be very WARY getting batteries from Jimmywu. I won auction on one of his batteries on July 18th, paid him on July 23, it is now July 30 (7 days later) and he still has not sent the battery.

I looked up his feedback/rating and found a person who recently won auction on a similar battery 10 days prior to me, and who already gave Jimmywu his 2nd negative feedback/rating on ebay. I emailed that person and he told me that he has still not recieved his battery and will likely contact Paypal to try to get money returned by August 1st if Jimmywu still has not sent his battery.

I hope I don't have the same misfortune but we shall see. Jimmywu's email today said he will send battery and give tracking number tomorrow. So again just be very cautious buying from this new battery vendor. If I ever get the battery I'll be glad to give everyone a performance report on it.

 

[ty cohen]

Its Jimmywu's battery that I was looking at. I made an impulse decision and made the purchase. Now after all that yall said, I'm going to try to cancel the purchase if possible and get a ping's battery. I'm just getting tired of planning and going back and forth on my plans.

Good move based on rethinking your battery's application. Might possibly also be a good move to not buy from this new vendor Jimmywu. I'm sending out a big CAUTION and letting you all know to be very WARY getting batteries from Jimmywu. I won auction on one of his batteries on July 18th, paid him on July 23, it is now July 30 (7 days later) and he still has not sent the battery.

I looked up his feedback/rating and found a person who recently won auction on a similar battery 10 days prior to me, and who already gave Jimmywu his 2nd negative feedback/rating on ebay. I emailed that person and he told me that he has still not recieved his battery and will likely contact Paypal to try to get money returned by August 1st if Jimmywu still has not sent his battery.

I hope I don't have the same misfortune but we shall see. Jimmywu's email today said he will send battery and give tracking number tomorrow. So again just be very cautious buying from this new battery vendor. If I ever get the battery I'll be glad to give everyone a performance report on it.

that's wierd because the rating is what I always check and I couldn't find any negative feedback from this vendor, only 2 neutrals. also, not to be picky, but I couldn't find any sales he made on July 18 either.

 

[Sacman]

Total retraction!!!

I'm wrong and you're right Ty Cohen. Jimmywu66 looks to be an okay as a new battery vendor.
Thanks for setting me right ... I wouldn't want to be diss'n' the wrong vendor.

The new battery vendor I wanted to caution everyone about is eastunitedmusic (Dan). I have been emailing both jimmywu66 and eastunitedmusic with questions regarding their battery packs for auction and I got the two mixed up when I first responded to this thread.

 

[nomad85]

you should edit your first post to clarify. People might only see that and be influenced.

 

[Sacman]

you should edit your first post to clarify. People might only see that and be influenced.

Good idea!!!

There ... I edited my first post just to make sure.

 

[dogman dan]

I feel better about getting confused now. I would love a review of any batteries that have been purchased. It remains to be seen if they are as good a cell as the ones Ping uses. BTW I had to wait a few weeks for Ping to ship, but since he is OK, He told me about that and I expected it. I did panic a bit when it seemed to drop into limbo after the thing left china, but that is also normal. Once it hits US customs, it may not track again untill after it arrives at your door.

 

[nomad85]

you should edit your first post to clarify. People might only see that and be influenced.

Good idea!!!

There ... I edited my first post just to make sure.

wow, I just meant to change the name. But that should work too.